xian Posted June 19, 2011 Share Posted June 19, 2011 I've started playing my first PBEM game and have noticed something a little weird.. It's turn 3, all is dark and quiet, and I'm yet to spot the enemy. It's the replay phase... Suddenly my attention is drawn to my opponents zone by the sound of breaking wood. Lo and behold - I can see fences disappearing! This gives me a pretty good idea that my opponent has armour and also in which direction he is moving them. It's a bit like watching an invisible man movie and seeing disembodied footprints appear in the snow. Now, I don't know whether this is something that needs fixing or not? But it is a little weird to be given information about my opponent that I really shouldn't be party to. My opponent (Mad Mike) will probably read this and make a few subtle movement changes to cover his tracks. But that's only fair, really - or maybe I should've kept my mouth shut! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonS Posted June 19, 2011 Share Posted June 19, 2011 There is no terrain FOW in CM. There never has been. So, shell holes show up, walls and bocage crumble when blasted, fences vanish when driven over, and it all shows up irrespective of whether your troopies have LOS to the location or not. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LJFHutch Posted June 19, 2011 Share Posted June 19, 2011 Reminds me of when I used to play Men of War, you were constantly looking for rustling bushes and felled trees - signs of enemy activity Means you had to be ultra-sneaky to avoid detection. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mad Mike Posted June 19, 2011 Share Posted June 19, 2011 My opponent (Mad Mike) will probably read this and make a few subtle movement changes to cover his tracks. But that's only fair, really - or maybe I should've kept my mouth shut! Hi xian, thanks for letting me know .. what a chivalrous gesture .. I don't think that I can do much about it now .. you know the map as well as me .. breaking through fences (or bocage for that matter) will be instrumental for any tactical movement.. but hey, you will only know where ONE of my tanks is due to this deficiency .. the others might be somewhere else .. honestly 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John DiFool the 2nd Posted June 19, 2011 Share Posted June 19, 2011 I've started playing my first PBEM game and have noticed something a little weird.. It's turn 3, all is dark and quiet, and I'm yet to spot the enemy. It's the replay phase... Suddenly my attention is drawn to my opponents zone by the sound of breaking wood. Lo and behold - I can see fences disappearing! This gives me a pretty good idea that my opponent has armour and also in which direction he is moving them. It's a bit like watching an invisible man movie and seeing disembodied footprints appear in the snow. The above reminded me of this old Jonny Quest ep., which scared the holy bejeezus out of me when I was a kid (hint for cartoon and movie makers: NEVER show what the monster looks like in such a case!): The Invisible Monster http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J9nRwWAggPk 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dieseltaylor Posted June 19, 2011 Share Posted June 19, 2011 You are kidding me? You mean you can here and "see" a fence being destroyed but you cannot here the tank engine. Am I understanding this correctly? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gunnergoz Posted June 19, 2011 Share Posted June 19, 2011 Yep. We can get rid of borg spotting, but we still have this one little glitch... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Emrys Posted June 19, 2011 Share Posted June 19, 2011 ...walls and bocage crumble when blasted... And rather noisily too, I might add. Hopefully this business of seeing and hearing terrain damage before one should realistically be able to is on the agenda to be fixed some day soon. Michael 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackcat Posted June 19, 2011 Share Posted June 19, 2011 I hadn't noticed this before. I believe the community owes Xian a vote of thanks for brining this to our attention. BF, please fix or do sumfing! P.S. Xian, you should have kept your mouth shut until after you had ambushed Mad Mike's tanks (smiley face thing goes here). 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pak40 Posted June 19, 2011 Share Posted June 19, 2011 I was playing the AI yesterday when I called in a 155mm artillery barrage on an area where some enemy troops and a tank were located. When the FFE started falling the tank started to back up to get out of the barrage. Eventually the tank disappeared behind all smoke and dust from the barrage but when I looked closely I could still see his exhaust smoke coming out of his invisible tank. It was kind of funny seeing a floating exhaust move across the field. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pvt. Ryan Posted June 19, 2011 Share Posted June 19, 2011 Both players could agree to remove or modify the fence crushing sound files so you don't hear them. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Childress Posted June 19, 2011 Share Posted June 19, 2011 Blowing up a hedge creates a lot smoke and commotion so I have no problem with the result being graphically available. When a tank knocks down a wall you're endangering the tracks so there's a downside. Fences are another matter. That's a problem. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dieseltaylor Posted June 20, 2011 Share Posted June 20, 2011 Given the programme can calculate lines of sight from square to square if the fence were "semi-human" then surely the game engine could simply not show physical changes if they were out of sight? We don't see enemy troops dying from mortar burst deep in enemy territory OK there is a processing overhead but surely not huge. Possibly it is accomplished through the engine - it must already be calculating which squares are in sight to do a check for troops - it simply does not need to show physical happenings for areas out of sight. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eltorrente Posted June 20, 2011 Share Posted June 20, 2011 How has this "feature" not been fixed? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Childress Posted June 20, 2011 Share Posted June 20, 2011 No. They'd probably need to treat fences, low walls, et, as 'units'. There are programming challenges we no doubt underestimate. I wasn't even aware of it until the OP brought it up. OTOH, this opens opportunities for misdirection ploys. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erik Springelkamp Posted June 20, 2011 Share Posted June 20, 2011 This is similar to the dreaded dust clouds that follow the invisible enemy tanks on the other side of the mountain in CMSF. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mad Mike Posted June 20, 2011 Share Posted June 20, 2011 This is similar to the dreaded dust clouds that follow the invisible enemy tanks on the other side of the mountain in CMSF. Yeah, but that was fixed in CMSF for version 1.20. I think the problem with no FOW for damage to fences / bocage should be the same that caused the introduction of foxholes / trenches as a kind of "vehicle" or entity on top of the terrain mesh. I don't think that it will be easily solved (but I hope I'm wrong). 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stitch Posted June 20, 2011 Share Posted June 20, 2011 but hey, you will only know where ONE of my tanks is due to this deficiency .. the others might be somewhere else .. honestly Perhaps this is a bit of disinformation regarding the halftrack or jeep that ran thru the fence? Anyway, I can see it now, Xian shifts his axis of defense according to this bit of information, and Mike rolls in a company of armor from the other, more stealthy, AoA. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xian Posted June 20, 2011 Author Share Posted June 20, 2011 Yes - I thought of that... Get a few jeeps to smash all the fences. Your opponent would think that the whole 1st Army was descending upon them. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gunnergoz Posted June 20, 2011 Share Posted June 20, 2011 The game sounds like 50's era bad sci fi when described this way. Hope it can be addressed. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChrisND Posted June 20, 2011 Share Posted June 20, 2011 This problem isn't unique to this game by any measure. Anyone play World of Tanks? When I'm arty I watch for trees falling down to tell me where enemy tanks are. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xian Posted June 20, 2011 Author Share Posted June 20, 2011 Yes - I can't really think of a workable solution. In reality each player shouldn't see the whole map - so where do you stop? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChrisND Posted June 20, 2011 Share Posted June 20, 2011 Yes - I can't really think of a workable solution. In reality each player shouldn't see the whole map - so where do you stop? I've heard of a solution long ago, to have two versions of the map existing at the same time or some such - one that is what the player can see, the other is how things actually are. Apparently the overhead is too much IIRC. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eltorrente Posted June 20, 2011 Share Posted June 20, 2011 We can put men on the moon, but we can't keep a distant fence hidden in a video game? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
herr_oberst Posted June 20, 2011 Share Posted June 20, 2011 The above reminded me of this old Jonny Quest ep., which scared the holy bejeezus out of me when I was a kid (hint for cartoon and movie makers: NEVER show what the monster looks like in such a case!): The Invisible Monster http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J9nRwWAggPk Hopefully Mad Mike requisitioned some bags of paint to throw in the general direction of the enemy (one of my favorite episodes, right next to the one with the old, crazed German WWI pilot who challenged Race to aerial combat in old biplanes!). 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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