infantrymen vs tankers

[Battlefront.com]

Sure I get that there infantry isn't nearly as smart as in real life, I was just wondering what mechanic in the game that applies to infantry is abstracted? Curious mind and all.

That's just it... there isn't anything abstracted with the infantry itself. Not as intelligent as real world Humans with years of training and experience, true enough. But that can be said about the intelligence of the vehicle and gun crews as well. It's a standard problem of either solving the AI problems for a wargame or getting a Nobel Prize for AI

Sgt. Joch's post (above) does mention two abstractions with the environment that exist:

1. HE type explosives are dumbed down a little based on distance from impact point because Soldiers are often more bunched up than they would be in real life, though often they aren't.

2. Since we can't possibly spare the CPU, GPU, and development resources to simulate every single stick and stone in a virtualized world, "micro-terrain" is simulated abstractly by reducing the chances of getting hit and increasing the amount of cover compared to what is graphically shown on the screen. This is true for all units in the game, not just infantry.

Steve

[vbfg]

A Nobel Prize would be a really good marketing angle.

[sburke]

That's just it... there isn't anything abstracted. Not as intelligent as real world Humans with years of training and experience, true enough. But that can be said about the intelligence of the vehicle and gun crews as well. It's a standard problem of either solving the AI problems for a wargame or getting a Nobel Prize for AI

Steve

your giving us more credit than we likely deserve, damn pixeltruppen just brewed up my Sherman!

[Battlefront.com]

The buggers do tend to hold a grudge against big armored things. Dunno why.

Steve

[para]

Infantry

[Narsus]

Before playing the Demo I could have said without a doubt ARMOR all the way, but infantry is very fun to play I am finding out. Still Armor though, like someone said, without Armor it wouldnt be WW2.

[para]

A Nobel Prize would be a really good marketing angle.

I don't believe it! Goaty has made an appearance.. Jack Deth here mate

ps lol@Bradford Bulls

[LongLeftFlank]

Guess...

"Just give me the aspirin. I already got a Purple Heart."

[Other Means]

I like artillery. Make things go boom.

You're going to fit in here, I can tell.

[finalcut]

I like artillery. Make things go boom.

I gotta agree with this statement.As a former 13 Foxtrot.I love Arty.King of Battle FTW.

[womble]

while we are waiting, I thought I would start an informal poll about what aspect of CMBN interests you the most: infantry combat or tank combat?

Combined arms all the way. Thoroughly modern, me. It's what makes WW2 'special' for me, at the level of a tactical problem: the first war that combines armour, air, artillery, mobility and infantry on both sides.

[JonS]

Arty. King of Battle

The infantry consider themselves the Queen of the battlefield.

Of course, well knowest thou what the King does to the Queen.

Strange bunch, those infantry chaps.

[Battlefront.com]

Of course, well knowest thou what the King does to the Queen.

Buys her fur, jewels, and fancy gloves so her hands don't get dirty while waving at the peasants? I don't see how that's applicable to CM.

Steve

[JonS]

'to' != 'for'

[phantom67]

I'll go with both. What good is an assaulting StuG III without a platoon of Panzergrenadiers supporting it.

[TrailApe]

Infantry? Armour?

All Targets to me!

Two quotes from two very different WW2 Commanders.

"I do not have to tell you who won the war. You know, the artillery did." - Gen. George S. Patton

"The harder the fighting and the longer the war, the more the infantry, and in fact all the arms, lean on the gunners." - Field Marshal Benard L. Montgomery

So in conclusion, as long as I have a nice OP, good fields of view and plenty of ammo, I love both!.:

[vbfg]

ps lol@Bradford Bulls

That's fighting talk.

[para]

That's fighting talk.

please, no fighting in the war room.

[Sgt Schultz]

Now while I enjoy putting my pixeltruppen through their paces, and the panzers are a treat, it's towed guns all the way. Mortars are fun, but are for sissies who are too afraid to show themselves.

A 150mm IG will take out all the infantry one would care to place in range.

A 75mm ATG(or lord help you an 88) will ring any tanks bell. and still rack up the infantry body count.

So, while I use combined arms every time, it is still the old skool weapons I prefer.

-

[simmox]

Air power all the way for me:)

nice and removed from any of that dirty ground business.

but i guess in the context of winning the games,you arent gonna win too many,without the grunts

III/JG11_Simmox

[GSX]

What part of it is abstracted? They get fudges to balance out AI limitations but other than that the same hit detection is used on infantry and vehicles.

I have been informed by BFC that infantry is abstracted to take into account the fact that they cannot becuase of the action spots occupy the real space that infantry would. They dont for example deploy into extended line or file. Therefore when they are hit the PC makes a small decision as to whether they are a casualty. It actually makes sense to abstract this as Im sure everyone would be very annoyed at loosing all their infantry every time an MG catches the infantry gaggle.

Also, I have been informed that throwing a grenade at a close vehicle is meant to simulate a close assault, as it was in CM-1 games.

Unless this has changes from CMSF then we still have 1-1 abstraction in CMBN.

Cheers

[GSX]

That is part of a long running discussion with GSX and others about the accuracy of infantry/formation modeling in CMSF and how much of infantry combat is still abstracted (obviously less than in CMx1). Although some of his comments have merit in the context of modern combat, they are less relevant in the context of WW2 infantry combat. Squads can be split, so you can use proper covering fire/maneuver tactics. Infantry probably still bunches up too much, although that was more common in WW2.

In other words: ignore him.

(ps- GSX or Geordie and I go back a long time, all the way to CMBB PBEM games at the Blitz ).

Yep, and I have absolutely no problem with the abstraction. In fact the greater splitting has refined this a lot. Its still there but a lot less significant!

And, feel free to ignore me at will, Im pretty pedantic when it comes to infantry and its wiley ways......

Oh and hello Sgt J..... maybe a PBEM at some point?

BTW, enjoying the game so far, infantry is doing OK....