LJFHutch Posted May 13, 2011 Share Posted May 13, 2011 CMBN seems to handle vegetation a LOT better than CMSF, and model quality in general. I get good frame rates now with everything set to highest (not using fraps but it's probably 30+. ATI 4890 1gb AMD 810 (I think?) OC @3.2ghz 4gb DDR 1600mhz @1920x1080 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silkwraith Posted May 13, 2011 Share Posted May 13, 2011 @Asmodius and others indicating CrossfireX - CrossfireX is NOT working with this DEMO - No idea if it shall be working when the final game comes out. Anyone out there knows anything please 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sergei Posted May 13, 2011 Share Posted May 13, 2011 Wiggum's right, the performance hit is indeed caused by the moving trees. Check the FPS in the upper left corner. Lots of trees and units, no wind: http://i286.photobucket.com/albums/ll92/Para_Bellum/CMtrees01.jpg Lots of trees and units, wind: http://i286.photobucket.com/albums/ll92/Para_Bellum/CMtrees02.jpg Massive difference. I don't think this is true (and in fact I know that it isn't). You cannot just take two scenarios and compare them; you can't even truly compare the same scenario unless you make absolutely sure that in both instances the exact same LOD levels are being used. And that's what matters: LODs (levels of detail). The two closest tree lod models look very much alike, but there is a huge difference in terms of GPU intensivity. When using balanced 3d quality, sometimes you will have in the same situation high quality trees further out, sometimes not. If the game displays a lot of the best tree lods at once, then your FPS will sink. It has nothing to do with wind setting. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sgt Joch Posted May 13, 2011 Share Posted May 13, 2011 trees dont have much of an impact since you will get similar FPS in CMSF where there are no trees. the factors which have the most impact on FPS are: -size and complexity of the map, especially urban maps; -number of units; the CPU is the most important component. In CMBN as in CMSF, the program is constantly calculating LOS/LOF from friendly units to enemy units, and that appears to be the biggest bottleneck. shadows is very much driver dependent. It seems with each new card and driver revisions, shadows are or are not a problem. On my card (ATI 4890, cat 11.4) turning shadows on/off has no impact on FPS. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peregrine Posted May 13, 2011 Share Posted May 13, 2011 I think what needs to be kept in mind is that this game isn't a First Person Shooter with a massive production team where getting a game engine that supplies good gameplay with a high framerate and still looks good on alot of medium to upmarket systems is the priority. I noticed it is low. Putting the graphics down from best to balanced from my quick tinkering did add 15 to 30 frames per second (from the minimum 11) without a big compromise in graphics (certainly compared to any other type of game - max to middle to low is much more dramatic). That said I will be playing it at 1920x1080 at max settings and taking my 11 to 40 FPS. I am going to save my frames per second angst for shooters. I am not sure if this thread stems from the significantly better graphical performance that a shooter would deliver on a comparable system but things to keep in mind are: - most shooters are multithreaded. So your PC is using lots of cores and the graphics card and is almost entirely focused on drawing a picture for you and not much else. - in shooters you generally have 16-32 individuals shooting at each other (that is all the combat calcualations) and this is almost certainly performed server side. - AI. None. - Spotting. Yourself. CM is the exact opposite. Your machine is doing the spotting and combat calculations for not 32 but dozens of units with much more complexity constantly and also drawing them. It may be possible to deliver a better graphics engine without comprising the backend complexity but there is a balance to be struck. Maybe CMx3 in 10 years time will have the Battlefield/Call of Duty looks with the CM combat complexity. I started out playing Atari Pac-Man and Combat so this is just a matter of time. That time just isn't yet. Congrats to Battlefront for making a wargame where frames per second even becomes a discussion point. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LemoN Posted May 13, 2011 Share Posted May 13, 2011 the CPU is the most important component. In CMBN as in CMSF, the program is constantly calculating LOS/LOF from friendly units to enemy units, and that appears to be the biggest bottleneck. Hmm, interesting, especially seen in the light that Steve (that's the Battlefront.com account, right?) posted that the CPU isn't the problem but the amount and type of RAM and the graphics card and amount of VRAM is. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ParaBellum Posted May 13, 2011 Share Posted May 13, 2011 trees dont have much of an impact since you will get similar FPS in CMSF where there are no trees. This is simply wrong. Same scenario ("Closing the Gap"), same viewpoint, trees off: http://i286.photobucket.com/albums/ll92/Para_Bellum/CMtrees03.jpg Moving trees cause a massive performance loss, at least on my system. I don't think this is true (and in fact I know that it isn't). You cannot just take two scenarios and compare them; Sorry, I disagree. To prove my point I created a little test scenario in the editor. No wind: http://i286.photobucket.com/albums/ll92/Para_Bellum/CMtrees04.jpg Wind: http://i286.photobucket.com/albums/ll92/Para_Bellum/CMtrees05.jpg I'm using the latest official NVIDIA drivers. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sgt Joch Posted May 13, 2011 Share Posted May 13, 2011 Hmm, interesting, especially seen in the light that Steve (that's the Battlefront.com account, right?) posted that the CPU isn't the problem but the amount and type of RAM and the graphics card and amount of VRAM is. I said the most important, having a decent graphic card and decent amount of RAM is also important. If you have a puny CPU, getting the latest video card will give you no improvement. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drtechno Posted May 13, 2011 Share Posted May 13, 2011 Core i7 @ 3.5 Ghz, 6 Gig RAM, 6970, Win7 64 bit Training scenario maxed settings 1920x1200, AA, Aniso, @ 60+ FPS 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
herr_oberst Posted May 13, 2011 Share Posted May 13, 2011 AMD Phenom II X4 940 3.0GHz 8 GB RAM ATI Radeon 4850 1920x1200 maxed settings, FRAPS reported 16-18 in the midst of a big firefight, my mortars dropping, Huns with their arty dropping, Shermans dropping smoke rounds. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PondScum Posted May 13, 2011 Share Posted May 13, 2011 My problems is the game is scrolling with the wasd keys. For some reason, scrolling with the mouse is fine. Turning with the Q and E keys is fine. Just the movement with wasd. It seems bizarre that the same function works with some inputs and not with others. It is much worse when high up, and not at all a problem when at ground level. It really makes the game almost unplayable. I have the same bizarre issue, which I reported in the first impressions thread - scrolling with the keyboard is very laggy. My workaround is to learn to use the mouse to scroll, first in the CMx1 style (move the mouse cursor to the edges of the screen to scroll in that direction), and then in the new CMx2 style (left-click and drag on the landscape to scroll, right-click and drag to rotate). It's definitely not ideal, but after a game or two I've gotten used to it. It would help Battlefront in fixing this if we could figure out what's common between our systems. Easy stuff first: I'm using a Lenovo W500 ThinkPad laptop, with a Core 2 Duo 9600 @ 2.66 GHz, 4 GB of DRAM, and an ATI Mobility FireGL V5700 display adapter with 512 MB of dedicated VRAM (sharing up to 1277 MB of system DRAM), all running under Win 7 32-bit. Is any of this similar to your system? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akd Posted May 13, 2011 Share Posted May 13, 2011 I have the same bizarre issue, which I reported in the first impressions thread - scrolling with the keyboard is very laggy. My workaround is to learn to use the mouse to scroll, first in the CMx1 style (move the mouse cursor to the edges of the screen to scroll in that direction), and then in the new CMx2 style (left-click and drag on the landscape to scroll, right-click and drag to rotate). It's definitely not ideal, but after a game or two I've gotten used to it. It would help Battlefront in fixing this if we could figure out what's common between our systems. Easy stuff first: I'm using a Lenovo W500 ThinkPad laptop, with a Core 2 Duo 9600 @ 2.66 GHz, 4 GB of DRAM, and an ATI Mobility FireGL V5700 display adapter with 512 MB of dedicated VRAM (sharing up to 1277 MB of system DRAM), all running under Win 7 32-bit. Is any of this similar to your system? If you are getting lagging inputs, you should try switching "higher process priority" to "on" under "Options" from the main screen, assuming you haven't already tried this. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I'm Who's Counting Posted May 13, 2011 Share Posted May 13, 2011 Not really the same, I'm running a Core i5 750 2.66Ghz, 8GB RAM, ATI 5870 with Win 7 64 bit. I can mouse scroll, but I find it too inaccurate, and I want to be doing other things with my mouse when moving around, that's why I like keyboard scrolling. edit: I've tried pretty much every setting combination. The problem is persistent. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sergei Posted May 13, 2011 Share Posted May 13, 2011 Sorry, I disagree. Well, you're wrong. Again, LODs are what matter, not wind. Your screenshots don't show what you are trying to prove because you can't control the amount of best LOD trees in view. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spaz360 Posted May 13, 2011 Share Posted May 13, 2011 Downloaded the German Mirror. The first tutorial ran perfect. No issues. However, the second and final missions would lock up after 3-4 minutes of game time...always inbetween phased turns/command pauses forcing a CTD. I tried the AA, lower res and maxed-out Virtual Memory. Any guidance would be wonderful. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PondScum Posted May 13, 2011 Share Posted May 13, 2011 If you are getting lagging inputs, you should try switching "higher process priority" to "on" under "Options" from the main screen, assuming you haven't already tried this. Sadly already tried that, hasn't helped 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PondScum Posted May 13, 2011 Share Posted May 13, 2011 Well, you're wrong. Again, LODs are what matter, not wind. Your screenshots don't show what you are trying to prove because you can't control the amount of best LOD trees in view. At this point I believe ParaBellum. He's come up with the hypothesis, done an initial experiment, done a SECOND more controlled experiment, and shown a big (3x!) performance hit. His second pair of screenshots show a very similar number and LOD of trees. All you've done is said "you're wrong". 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ParaBellum Posted May 13, 2011 Share Posted May 13, 2011 Well, you're wrong. Again, LODs are what matter, not wind. Your screenshots don't show what you are trying to prove because you can't control the amount of best LOD trees in view. It's not just a single screenshot. Make a test map yourself and compare FPS. Wind will massively reduce FPS when trees are present, especially from closer view distances. If I move the viewpoint through the forest and get constant ~ 40 FPS with no wind, then enable wind and move the viewpoint through the forest again and now get constant ~10 FPS it's not just a LOD problem. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drtechno Posted May 13, 2011 Share Posted May 13, 2011 Agreed.. map movement commands remain annoyingly laggy (but do improve after higher process priority) 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wiggum Posted May 13, 2011 Share Posted May 13, 2011 I agree with ParaBellum. Moving the camera through the dense wood in the "Breaching the Bocage" scenario means absolutly no lag for me (only light wind). But in the "Closing the Pocket" one with medium wind you will get massive lag while scrolling through the woods. ParaBellums screenshots prove that there is a issue with the wind moving for sure, anyone who doubts this can try it out and will be suprised. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barkhorn1x Posted May 13, 2011 Share Posted May 13, 2011 Did some benchmarking for my ATI card and posted over on the Wargamer forum - a long post. If anyone is interested, here is the link: http://www.wargamer.com/forums/tm.aspx?m=537463 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PondScum Posted May 13, 2011 Share Posted May 13, 2011 Did some benchmarking for my ATI card and posted over on the Wargamer forum - a long post. If anyone is interested, here is the link: http://www.wargamer.com/forums/tm.aspx?m=537463 Nice - thanks for doing the experiments! Have you compared CM:BN's antialiasing with that done by the ATI card? If the quality is comparable, that might be another way to eke out a few more fps. PS DarthMod ftw 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wiggum Posted May 13, 2011 Share Posted May 13, 2011 @ all Please make a quick test and report back ! Go to the Scenario Editor and just make a map full of trees of different kind. Now set the wind to gentle and go to 3D Preview. Any lag ? Now go back and set the wind to strong... Heavy lag or what ? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barkhorn1x Posted May 13, 2011 Share Posted May 13, 2011 Nice - thanks for doing the experiments! Have you compared CM:BN's antialiasing with that done by the ATI card? If the quality is comparable, that might be another way to eke out a few more fps. PS DarthMod ftw Hmm...no I didn't - but I will tomorrow morning. I'll report the results here. (Oh yea, DarthMod makes the TW series MUCH better). 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ParaBellum Posted May 14, 2011 Share Posted May 14, 2011 Any official response to the performance problems with wind and trees yet? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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