TheVulture Posted May 6, 2011 Share Posted May 6, 2011 Quick question inspired by a discussion elsewhere: Does anyone know if it is possible to make a bridge a 'preserve' objective? Since bridges can apparently be destroyed by enough high calibre HE, the spectre of gamey winning defensive battles by destroying bridges raises its head (wihch was a flaw that a few CMx1 scenarios had). Obviously it can be avoided by careful scenario design. Clearly you can put a 'capture' objective on the bridge area, but are 'preserve' objectives limited to buildings or can they be put on other things too (preserving a bridge is fairly unambiguous, preserving a road is much less of an all or nothing affair, preserving an orchard isn't often a military objective...) Anyone know anything (and allowed to say so?) 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sergei Posted May 6, 2011 Share Posted May 6, 2011 Yes, you can have a preserve or destroy mission tagged on a bridge. Totally works. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
umlaut Posted May 6, 2011 Share Posted May 6, 2011 Maybe I´m not getting your point, Vulture, but I fail to see what´s gamey about winning a defensive battle by blowing a brigde? I´ve actually designed one or two CM1 scenarios where blowing a bridge was crucial to the defenders. In my opinion this is just as valid an objective as securing a flag. I think it could only be considered gamey if the blowing of the bridge hadn´t been an intended possibility in the design of the scenario. And if that´s the case I think the scenario designer is to blame - not the player blowing the bridge. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noltyboy Posted May 6, 2011 Share Posted May 6, 2011 Can you add them to units? Say a unit of german trucks that are full of nazi gold that the germans want to protect and the allies want to stop? On a big map where you have to reach an exit point? I think im on a winner here. Now if only i was a good scenario designer... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChrisND Posted May 6, 2011 Share Posted May 6, 2011 Can you add them to units? Say a unit of german trucks that are full of nazi gold that the germans want to protect and the allies want to stop? On a big map where you have to reach an exit point? I think im on a winner here. Now if only i was a good scenario designer... Unit Objectives can specify specific units as the scenario designer wishes. They can either give them a Destroy objective that scales with how much damage is done to them, a Destroy All where the unit must be completely destroyed for points, a Spot objective where if they are spotted they get points, or an Exit objective. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Emrys Posted May 6, 2011 Share Posted May 6, 2011 Unit Objectives can specify specific units as the scenario designer wishes. They can either give them a Destroy objective that scales with how much damage is done to them, a Destroy All where the unit must be completely destroyed for points, a Spot objective where if they are spotted they get points, or an Exit objective. Is there a capture objective, as distinct from destroy? Michael 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChrisND Posted May 6, 2011 Share Posted May 6, 2011 Is there a capture objective, as distinct from destroy? Michael No. It'd be really awkward to try and pull off anyways. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Emrys Posted May 6, 2011 Share Posted May 6, 2011 No. It'd be really awkward to try and pull off anyways. Can you clarify? The game still allows surrender/capture, doesn't it? Michael 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChrisND Posted May 6, 2011 Share Posted May 6, 2011 Can you clarify? The game still allows surrender/capture, doesn't it? Michael Well, yeah there's surrendering and capturing. But I don't imagine a Capture objective working out very well. What happens if they die in the attempt? Because there's going to have to be an close-range firefight to get them to surrender, and people tend to die in those. Troops don't have a "yell at them to surrender instead of shooting them" mode, so it would be awkward and prone to luck more than anything else. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjkerner Posted May 6, 2011 Share Posted May 6, 2011 umlaut, I assume he's concerned about fighting a defensive battle to preserve the bridge against infantry and tanks, and the enemy simply smothers it with offboard artillery until it fall down--go boom. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreenAsJade Posted May 7, 2011 Share Posted May 7, 2011 Maybe I´m not getting your point, Vulture, but I fail to see what´s gamey about winning a defensive battle by blowing a brigde? I´ve actually designed one or two CM1 scenarios where blowing a bridge was crucial to the defenders. In my opinion this is just as valid an objective as securing a flag. I think it could only be considered gamey if the blowing of the bridge hadn´t been an intended possibility in the design of the scenario. And if that´s the case I think the scenario designer is to blame - not the player blowing the bridge. It's exactly what you said: when the possibility of blowing the bridge wasn't part of the scenario designer's consideration, and where it obviously renders the game moot. IE suppose that if you think of it quickly enough you can blow all the attackers option to enter your space completely. 3 turns later ... now what does the attacker do? It's actually not so much "gamey" as poor scenario design, I guess 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GSX Posted May 7, 2011 Share Posted May 7, 2011 It's exactly what you said: when the possibility of blowing the bridge wasn't part of the scenario designer's consideration, and where it obviously renders the game moot. IE suppose that if you think of it quickly enough you can blow all the attackers option to enter your space completely. 3 turns later ... now what does the attacker do? It's actually not so much "gamey" as poor scenario design, I guess I was thinking that too. What if you had to attack over the only bridge to have a chance of winning the scenario and your opponent dropped the bridge? I suppose it would come down to bad scenario design. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheVulture Posted May 7, 2011 Author Share Posted May 7, 2011 I was thinking that too. What if you had to attack over the only bridge to have a chance of winning the scenario and your opponent dropped the bridge? I suppose it would come down to bad scenario design. It is the kind of thing you can put in unintentionally too. And it also places limits on the kinds of scenarios you can design (whether you would want to design such scenarios is another question). Being able to slap a preserve objective on the bridge removes some of the limitations that destructable bridges place on scenario designers. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WillLight Posted May 7, 2011 Share Posted May 7, 2011 I was thinking that too. What if you had to attack over the only bridge to have a chance of winning the scenario and your opponent dropped the bridge? I suppose it would come down to bad scenario design. Well, I wouldn't put it down to bad design in all cases. Suppose you wanted to design a scenario where it would be beneficial to preserve the bridge but the main objective is to keep hold of the town behind it. As a designer I would like to reward the defender who manages to hold the town and keep the bridge intact, and maybe award no more than a draw if the town is held but the bridge is blown. Highway to the Reich has scenarios like that, and they can make for exciting play, especially with "hold" objectives that award points on an increasing scale with how long you hold them. (yes, I know that's less relevant for a tactical scale game). 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flanker15 Posted May 7, 2011 Share Posted May 7, 2011 Can the AI plan be told to destroy a building/bridge objective though? Be a bit one sided if they won't shoot at the bridge you're defending. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WillLight Posted May 7, 2011 Share Posted May 7, 2011 Don't know about the AI thing, but even if it can't it wouldn't be one sided. The attacker's (AI or human) mission is to seize the town, not destroy the bridge. The defender may destroy the bridge in order to prevent the town from being seized (as a last resort one presumes). This would replicate reality in that in general a defender has reason to keep bridges intact, unless their existence presents a danger to the defence itself. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
De Savage Posted June 25, 2011 Share Posted June 25, 2011 How do you destroy a bridge? I tried to blast it with engineer, but it didn't work. I assume you can only destroy bridge with artillery bombardment? It would be nice to have "prime bridge" or just blast command that works. Could be that only engineers can blast it thought.. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RockinHarry Posted June 25, 2011 Share Posted June 25, 2011 Realistically, a "preserve bridge" objective should be more of concern, if you yet need it for friendly movements. Otherwise you´d already have it blown in the face of an attacker in time. (yes, there were many occasions, where a defender failed in doing that) A bridge has no "physical worth". Tactically, a (undestroyed) bridge just has its worth, if one can deny the enemy crossing it by observed fire. So a "bridge capturing" objective must include any commanding terrain, surrounding the bridge in question. I´ve seen many CMX1 "capture the bridge", "gain bridgehead", ... scenarios fail in that regard. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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