inff Posted March 30, 2011 Share Posted March 30, 2011 Personaly I cant imagine a wargame set in Normandy without a proper beach landing scenarios. It would be like creating Ardennes game without Bastogne, Stalingrad without Volga. So are they in CM:BN? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Krilly Posted March 30, 2011 Share Posted March 30, 2011 No. Beaches, landing craft ect. are not moddelled in CM:BN. It is aimed on the land combat after the landings instead. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Holman Posted March 30, 2011 Share Posted March 30, 2011 Enterprising scenario designers will probably have "first steps on the beach" scenarios ready for you about three days after the game is released. Actual beach-landing scenarios probably won't be the most fun you can have, though. Imagine a scenario with little cover where almost everyone starts out immediately pinned and one side basically doesn't move. Chaos on the beach is iconic, for sure, but it doesn't make good wargaming at this scale. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeyD Posted March 30, 2011 Share Posted March 30, 2011 The problem with Utah and Omaha from a company-scale combat sim standpoint is that its wildly out of scale. You'd either need to simulate a very small portion of beach or have a massive force on the map. That's not so say an enterprising soul couldn't attempt it successfully. It's just not the focus of the campaigns. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
inff Posted March 30, 2011 Author Share Posted March 30, 2011 Thats very controversial in my opinion. Also no gliders and paratroopers? What about flooded fields? So it is a game about Normandy without Normandy? I know there were no beaches in CMx1 but this game was about whole Western front. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barkhorn1x Posted March 30, 2011 Share Posted March 30, 2011 It would be like creating Ardennes game without Bastogne, Stalingrad without Volga. - Apples to organges comparison - See Krilly's and Marty's comments - Moddeling a beach scenario is a heck of a lot of work for a setting that has a limited appeal. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaws Posted March 30, 2011 Share Posted March 30, 2011 Battle for Normandy was one day fight on the beach and three months fight on the rest of the peninsula. Would be nice to have a beach but it is not a show stopper imo. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barkhorn1x Posted March 30, 2011 Share Posted March 30, 2011 Thats very controversial in my opinion. Also no gliders and paratroopers? What about flooded fields? Gliders = Nope - again a lot of effort for little pay off Paratroopers = Yes, Amis in this base game and FJ in the first module Flooded fields = Doubtful but don't really know. So it is a game about Normandy without Normandy? Now, that is what I would call a controversial opinion. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Other Means Posted March 30, 2011 Share Posted March 30, 2011 You know you can make your own scenarios, right? Want a beach scenario? Make one. Have HT's and some impassible terrain + some imagination = landing craft. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MengJiao Posted March 30, 2011 Share Posted March 30, 2011 Thats very controversial in my opinion. Also no gliders and paratroopers? What about flooded fields? I'm happy to have a game that has the bocage fighting in it. I'm happy to have a game with the vanilla US Army (with airborne troops) fighting the Vanilla German Army. It's a good base for developing other aspects of the Western (and Eastern) fronts. I can think of any tactical landing games that I've liked, except maybe one of the Marine scenarios in CMSF, but even there you come off the beach rather than getting onto the beach. A beach simulation would need tides and currents and small craft and water depths and so on. It would be a good basis for say a galley fighting game focused on the ancient world, or a floatplane and PT boat simulation but not a good base for the Normandy Campaign. I would like a galley and/or floatplane simulation, but it would be a very different game. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Praetori Posted March 30, 2011 Share Posted March 30, 2011 So it is a game about Normandy without Normandy? I know there were no beaches in CMx1 but this game was about whole Western front. The securing of the landingzones took less than a day. The campaign in the area lasted for another 30+ days before the breakout. Battles raging for less than 1/30th of the first phase of the campaign might not be the best scenarios to publish. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
inff Posted March 30, 2011 Author Share Posted March 30, 2011 You know you can make your own scenarios, right? Want a beach scenario? Make one. Have HT's and some impassible terrain + some imagination = landing craft. No thanks, I'm not a good scenarios maker. I will save my 60$+ and play Close Combat while waiting for new Achtung Panzer. RIGHT? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Holman Posted March 30, 2011 Share Posted March 30, 2011 It's all a moot point. There *will* be beach landing scenarios available--probably lots of them. They'll give you all the cinematic Saving Private Ryan mayhem you want. Some of them will be great at that. They just won't be on the disc. CM has always depended on the talents of scenario designers inspired by the game engine. That's why BTS put so much love into the editor. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
inff Posted March 30, 2011 Author Share Posted March 30, 2011 CMx1 has always depended on the talents of scenario designers inspired by the game engine. That's why BTS put so much love into the editor. Fixed it for you. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
umlaut Posted March 30, 2011 Share Posted March 30, 2011 No thanks, I'm not a good scenarios maker. I will save my 60$+ and play Close Combat while waiting for new Achtung Panzer. RIGHT? I dunno. I think there´s a lot of great things in Achtung Panzer, but in my opinion it has two major drawbacks: A horrible user interface and no WEGO. These things are the reason I never play the game, though it´s been on my hard drive for a year. But we all have different tastes, so you do what you want. I personally think you´ll be making a big mistake, as I´m convinced CM:BN will be one of the best WWII games ever. Even without the beaches (I would have liked them too). Your loss, I say. Cheers 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pvt. Ryan Posted March 30, 2011 Share Posted March 30, 2011 Imagine a scenario with little cover where almost everyone starts out immediately pinned and one side basically doesn't move. Chaos on the beach is iconic, for sure, but it doesn't make good wargaming at this scale. It's like a QB from the release version of CMSF. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeyD Posted March 30, 2011 Share Posted March 30, 2011 Nobodys saying beach landing scenarios were verboten. But did any scenario designers want to bother with them? Beach Landing scenarios would be like Sturmorser Tigers in CMBB. They're cool for all of five minutes then you soon return to the real meat of gameplay. Beach landing: You run up an open stretch of beach, a lot of guys get hit by artillery and MG fire. The unseen enemy gets pounded with masive artillery then you move off the beach. About as much tactical finesse as Verdun. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eagle2 Posted March 30, 2011 Share Posted March 30, 2011 Fixed it for you. Have you ever played CMSF? There are some truly fantastic scenarios out there that are WAY more challenging than most CMX1 scenarios, especially when playing SP. The "dynamic" AI in CMX1 was more like, "rush to the flags and blow the hell out of anything in the way." I do wish the AI was a bit more reactive but with a good scenario design (and there are quite alot of them) the missions are alot better. Of course you aren't going to care about what anyone says anyway, so you're kind of pointless to talk to anyway. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Praetori Posted March 30, 2011 Share Posted March 30, 2011 About as much tactical finesse as Verdun. I'd argue that Verdun had tons of tactical finesse compared to the Omaha and Utah landings. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
finalcut Posted March 30, 2011 Share Posted March 30, 2011 I want a simulation of a bunch of drunk American and British Soldiers getting in a bar fight somewhere in England in the months leading up to the Normandy invasion.That would be an awesome game. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkEzra Posted March 30, 2011 Share Posted March 30, 2011 No thanks, I'm not a good scenarios maker. I will save my 60$+ and play Close Combat while waiting for new Achtung Panzer. RIGHT? CMBO did not handle Beach Invasions and neither will CMBN. The reason is simple. Creating a faithful 3D depiction of ocean, tides, assault ships, landing craft, Hobarts funnies, and a seriously long list of necessary graphic interactions of men, water, and machines makes it cost prohibitive. There are other far less complex games available to the wargamer that can handle D-Day. I've played them. I'm sure a simple search will provide more then just Close Combat (not my particular 1st choice, but hey a lot of people like it) to choose from. Can A Beach landing be simulated? Sure. CMBN will have the necessary terrain to cobble together an "On the beach" scen as well as cliffs and what-ever. The game also include Naval Guns. It just will lack ships and ship like things. I have no doubt that CMBN players will immediately put together their own creations just as was done in every CM game. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeyD Posted March 30, 2011 Share Posted March 30, 2011 I want a simulation of a bunch of drunk American and British Soldiers getting in a bar fight somewhere in England Haw! You reminded me that I had lobbied hard for the inclusion of drunk cossacks in a civilian sedan randomly driving up and down the roads for CMBB. I think I suggests it be to the tune "Foggy Mountain Brakdown". 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barkhorn1x Posted March 30, 2011 Share Posted March 30, 2011 No thanks, I'm not a good scenarios maker. I will save my 60$+ and play Close Combat while waiting for new Achtung Panzer. RIGHT? OK - I am calling TROLL on this guy. DFTT!! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Golani Posted March 30, 2011 Share Posted March 30, 2011 CMBO did not handle Beach Invasions Hadn't played nearly as much CMBO as most of the people here, but I do vaguely remember a beach landing scenario, IIRC involving the Rangers. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeyD Posted March 30, 2011 Share Posted March 30, 2011 You can go 88%+ towards making a perfectly acceptible invasion scenario. Just leave the 'eye candy' stuff to your imagination. Instead of a LCVP dropping its ramp and guys running onto the beach you have guys running onto the beach from the water's edge. Problem solved. For the CMSF Marine module I did a small night beach landing scenario. Nobody seemed to mind that the water at their backs was entirely imaginary. Once the shooting started you entirely forgot about it. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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