Hedges as barriers

[Redjac]

Will hedge groves be natural barriers to tanks or just infantry. Will taking position from within a hedge as cover be done. Are there diffeent types of hedges ie some are passable some are impassable.

So many games have implemented this differently. Just curious on the hedge modeling for los, movement and camoflague/cover.

[MG TOW]

there is another thread on this subject just search it out

[Redjac]

uh I did that. My search yielded alot of opinions on the mechanics of destroying bocages, and what vehicles are capable of smashing through them but nothing game specific.

[MikeyD]

Plain-jane 'hedges' - the border trim to houses - won't stop much of anything in the game, though Jeeps do tend to get immobilized trying to drive over it. When vehicles drive through it they break down the hedge leaving a gap.

'Bocage' is another matter. Both low and high bocage is quite dense and impenetrable to vehicles and infantry without engineers blowing a hole in it, and it may take several attempts to get a hole broad enough to get a tank through. Culin headgecutters ('Rhinos') don't show up til July and the Germans never fielded them. In the editor the designer can add narrow infantry-only gaps in the bocage or wider vehicle-friendly gaps. You can take up positions behind the raised earthen base for cover.

On LOS, concealment, cover, etc. That's still a moving target. Testers comment on what they find and Charles adjusts the game accordingly. So details on that are different this week than they were last week and will be different next week

[Krilly]

Ooh nice info there, thanks!

I like the different hights of bocage and sizes of gaps. Interesting.

[Michael Emrys]

In general men on foot could work their way through a hedgerow, but the emphasis was on 'work'. It meant climbing over the earth and stone berm while squirming through dense growth. Not a task undertaken casually. Being shot at the while tended to discourage the effort.

Michael

[DaveyJJ]

Ditto, thanks for the info MikeyD. Can't wait to get my hands on that editor for the community here.

It meant climbing over the earth and stone berm while squirming through dense growth. Not a task undertaken casually. Being shot at the while tended to discourage the effort.

Michael

That is precisely how my relative did lose fingers off his hand. He got his hand high enough while climbing that someone on the other side took offence and blew them off for him. At least he didn't stick his head up first.

[MikeyD]

Yeh, about squirming through hedges. As an exercise sneak over to your next door neighbor's late tonight and try squirming your way through that thick yew hedge bordering your properties... without getting shot

[Redjac]

Good info thanks.

Not to mention one would get a little scuffed up bocage diving.

[Michael Emrys]

And your equipment would be constantly getting caught in the shrubbery.

Michael

[Rocky Balboa]

And your equipment would be constantly getting caught in the shrubbery.

Michael

This is of course unless you are a descendant of the Knights that say Ni.

[Lanzfeld]

In CMBO if you had a squad right up against some bocage they could see a short distance through it. This may have represented small fighting holes in the bocage.

Can we do this in CM:BN?

[MikeyD]

Oh yeh, you can even position your AT guns up against them with the barrels poking out the other side.

[moneymaxx]

It seems they relaxed the NDA a little, a lot of info to be found lately .

[chas_in_mlb]

I have a question - why do hedges block the LOS to the building behind it? If I see a building that I suspect holds enemy troops in it and want to pump a few rounds into it, I can't.

Very frustrating.

[Vinnart]

'Bocage' is another matter. Both low and high bocage is quite dense and impenetrable to vehicles and infantry without engineers blowing a hole in it, and it may take several attempts to get a hole broad enough to get a tank through.

I did some testing on this not long ago, and found the trick to blowing holes big enough for vehicles with a single blast is to put the blast line parallel to the wall/bocage. So far it has worked every time, but occasionally depending on waypoint placement going through the gap if tight the vehicle seems confused, and doesn't want to go through even though the gap is large enough. Example: tank 1 goes through, but tank 2 doesn't and takes alternate route. Again, this path finding oddity happens on occassion.

[undercovergeek]

I have a question - why do hedges block the LOS to the building behind it? If I see a building that I suspect holds enemy troops in it and want to pump a few rounds into it, I can't.

Very frustrating.

i think, and i stress THINK your units have to be able to see the base of the building, or at the centre of the building, or the centre of the base - one of those, i think - not much help i know but there is a reason, its not just you

[jep]

I would not believe hedges will stop your opponent. It seems to be simple task for engineers to blow a hole to those things as long as you have few pioneers. Even hedges + heavy forest combination was not enought to stop my shermans.

[Crushingleeek]

And who knew it, Dr. Emrys teaches us once again.

[womble]

i think, and i stress THINK your units have to be able to see the base of the building, or at the centre of the building, or the centre of the base - one of those, i think - not much help i know but there is a reason, its not just you

That does seem to be the case. If there's a unit that you've spotted in that house, you'll be able to shoot at them over the foliage if there's LOS. It's a bit of an engine limitation, it seems.

[sburke]

That does seem to be the case. If there's a unit that you've spotted in that house, you'll be able to shoot at them over the foliage if there's LOS. It's a bit of an engine limitation, it seems.

agreed, at the potential cost to my "fanboi" status it would be nice to be able to area target places in certain situations where if you actually could see the enemy unit you could, but until they actually do something to reveal themselves it is as if the location simply does not exist.

I expect there is a reason why we can't and a cost associated to trying to include it, but it can be odd and at times frustrating as you can't lay down suppressive fire and you know you really should.

I can sometimes get around that by area firing ahead of the location figuring some rounds will pass over, but it is a significantly reduced amount of firepower.

[A Canadian Cat]

agreed, at the potential cost to my "fanboi" status it would be nice to be able to area target places in certain situations where if you actually could see the enemy unit you could, but until they actually do something to reveal themselves it is as if the location simply does not exist.

Yes, that has been my frustration at times as well. Another work around that might help this OP is to target the second floor of the building. You can area fire at each floor of a building and often you can shoot at the second floor when you cannot hit the ground floor.