CM:N Printed Manual??

[Barkhorn1x]

Assuming there is one of course. Are we going to see a CMBB type book - or a CMAK type booklet?

What do you get now when you purchase CMSF?

[Sergei]

The CMSF main game manual is a 195 page 1 cm thick book. Modules either come with a thin printed pamphlet detailing the new units or just a PDF with the same. I think the same method will be used for later games, unless otherwise told.

Of course the problem with printed manuals, with a game like CMSF, is that the manuals get updated so the printed goods become outdated (though only to a degree, but still). As a solution, the game should ship with a free Kindle.

[Barkhorn1x]

The CMSF main game manual is a 195 page 1 cm thick book. Modules either come with a thin printed pamphlet detailing the new units or just a PDF with the same.

A 195 page manual sounds good to me. Heck, I would be happy with a beefy PDF vesion that I can go print.

These days manuals are such an afterthought for most game companies and that is a shame.

Of course the problem with printed manuals, with a game like CMSF, is that the manuals get updated so the printed goods become outdated (though only to a degree, but still).

Yes, that is true. Call me old fashioned but I like to have something to read/reference when I dive into a game.

As a solution, the game should ship with a free Kindle.

Ha!!

[MeatEtr]

Assuming there is one of course. Are we going to see a CMBB type book - or a CMAK type booklet?

BF will always release manuals for the base games. Simply because there are too many old wargaming farts that like to sit on the john while reading about the game.

[Barkhorn1x]

BF will always release manuals for the base games. Simply because there are too many old wargaming farts that like to sit on the john while reading about the game.

Do you KNOW me from somewhere?!? You certainly know my habits.

Scary.

[Jonny(FGM)]

I love the CM manuals (if im correct, we didn't get one until CMAK?), i find they help me with understanding the game, I don't know why i allways play the game for ages first and then go read the manual and be all "oh, so THAT'S why that unit was doing that" : )

[Sergei]

I love the CM manuals (if im correct, we didn't get one until CMAK?)

There certainly was a good thick manual that came with the original CMBO - in fact, there wasn't any packaging, just the manual with the game CD inside it, wrapped in plastic! CMBB and CMAK I got as European CDV distributed versions so they came with thin leaflets and PDF manuals on the CD's, so I don't know how good the BFC manuals for them were.

[phil stanbridge]

Digressing of sorts, the printed manual for TOW2 was a shocker. It was really poor considering how much money I paid for the end result. I would have been better off buying the download option only and printing out the pdf, which was the same thing.

I was under the impression that due to cost cutting exercises in recent times this may be a problem with Normandy too, and perhaps all future releases. Can BFC confirm the manual will be of a very high quality much like it was for cmx1 and Shock Force?

[Yskonyn]

When I ordered from BFC a few years ago:

CMBB manual was a printed thick manual which is actually very good.

CMAK only had a printed quickstart manual.

I would love to see a CMBB style manual for Normandy.

The clear font used in the manual was much better readable than the one used in the CMSF manual. The latter was also a smaller size.

TOW2 was not a BFC project, they merely published the title, so I don't think they were responsible for the manual.

[Mord]

There certainly was a good thick manual that came with the original CMBO - in fact, there wasn't any packaging, just the manual with the game CD inside it, wrapped in plastic!

You forgot to mention the scream of horror and near coronary BEFORE one realized that the CD was tucked inside the manual.

Mord

[hoolaman]

I was under the impression that due to cost cutting exercises in recent times this may be a problem with Normandy too, and perhaps all future releases. Can BFC confirm the manual will be of a very high quality much like it was for cmx1 and Shock Force?

Not so much cost cutting (at least not intentionally) but the fact that so many purchases are download only these days. So the hard goods sit gathering dust in a warehouse somewhere.

I'm pretty sure they have commited to printed manuals and DVD cases for main game releases but not neccesarily for modules. This was after the stink about the Brit hardgoods being naught but a CD in a plain jewel case. (after the website showed shiny box art)

[Moon]

I love the CM manuals (if im correct, we didn't get one until CMAK?), i find they help me with understanding the game, I don't know why i allways play the game for ages first and then go read the manual and be all "oh, so THAT'S why that unit was doing that" : )

There was one. CMAK came with a "Quick Guide" booklet.

BTW, the CMBB manual is sold out.

[Moon]

Not so much cost cutting (at least not intentionally) but the fact that so many purchases are download only these days. So the hard goods sit gathering dust in a warehouse somewhere.

I'm pretty sure they have commited to printed manuals and DVD cases for main game releases but not neccesarily for modules. This was after the stink about the Brit hardgoods being naught but a CD in a plain jewel case. (after the website showed shiny box art)

As the base game for the new WW2 Western Front family of CMx1 games, I am pretty sure that Normandy is going to get one of those ol' big fat manuals. That's the plan at least.

Hoolaman is right about the main reason for cutting down on manuals for some of the other releases. The percentage of "Download only" orders means that our printing runs are shrinking. This means that printing is getting more expensive. Smaller manuals are still ok to print in smaller numbers, the cost per manual is manageable, but to print a 200 page manual you really have to make a run of thousands of copies in order for it to make sense. Otherwise we'd be paying $20 per manual just to have it printed.

For Normandy, we have no doubt to be able to sell enough hardgoods copies, so I am pretty sure that we're going to go the full yard. However, re-prints are unlikely, unlike for the CMx1 games, so you better pre-order your copy If we guess wrong how many copies we'll need, you may end up without one.

[MeatEtr]

For Normandy, we have no doubt to be able to sell enough hardgoods copies, so I am pretty sure that we're going to go the full yard. However, re-prints are unlikely, unlike for the CMx1 games, so you better pre-order your copy If we guess wrong how many copies we'll need, you may end up without one.

Very well then, I'll be first in-line. And because I'm first in line and because my mommy always told me I was special, can I get a free copy? Thanks I appreciate it!

P.S. Have you guys decided on a name yet?

[Michael Emrys]

As a solution, the game should ship with a free Kindle.

Ever the dreamer, eh?

Michael

[Michael Emrys]

Call me old fashioned but I like to have something to read/reference when I dive into a game.

Same here. I want a paper manual that I can underline, dogear, and otherwise abuse so that I can find needed information fast. Trying to search through a PDF for half an hour just to find one elusive but absolutely critical sentence sucks severely.

Michael

[Michael Emrys]

And because I'm first in line and because my mommy always told me I was special, can I get a free copy?

No, but you can have a pony. Just go down to the pony farm and tell the nice man that Groucho sent you.

Michael

[costard]

And I want my manual bound in Emrys hide, gold leaf for the title. Limited edition sort of thing.

[Jonny(FGM)]

Trying to search through a PDF for half an hour just to find one elusive but absolutely critical sentence sucks severely.

Have you never used the search bar at the top? I type in what im looking for and usually have it within minutes if not seconds.

[phil stanbridge]

Okay that's cool and perfectly understandable. I'll definitely pre-order my copy as soon as the option is available.

Out of interest how many copies (appoximately of course) of Shock Force have been sold compared to CMBB/CMAK for instance? Is there a huge gap between the two?

[Michael Emrys]

Have you never used the search bar at the top?

Many times. Sometimes that works, more often it takes me somewhere absolutely useless. So I modify the search parameters and once again it takes me to something I'm not looking for. That's why it takes me half an hour to find things. And that's not counting the times I never find it. In my experience, search engines have an IQ not much greater than a certain Justicar I will not name here.

:mad:

Michael

[Battlefront.com]

The other problem is that inevitably we need to make modifications to the manual as we alter basic game functionalities with patches and subsequent Modules. This means that the printed manuals continually fall behind in terms of accuracy, which in turn means the printed manuals become (over time) unreliable.

This isn't such a problem for the guy who orders it on the first day because he reads the manual before any of these changes are made. The two synch up pretty well, except for the last minute changes made after printing but before release. But think about the guy who buys the hard copy manual 1 or 2 years out from initial release? That person is expecting the manual to be accurate, but it certainly won't be because the manuals we ship will likely be the very same one we shipped with the initial game.

Back in the old days, when we only shipped physical product, this wasn't such a problem because we would run out of manuals and reprint with a newer, updated version. But due to the far lower demand for manuals, and yet no reduction in minimum print runs from the printers, we basically do one run (if that) and that's it. For CMBO I think we did something like 5 or 6 runs so the last run is pretty much in synch with the final version of the game. And because of the minimum print run, we had to purchase too many in the last run and here we are, 8 years later, and we still have a ton of printed manuals because pretty much everybody is buying the downloadable version

Steve

[Michael Emrys]

I have enough familiarity with the printing industry to know what Moon and Steve are talking about. Printing costs have gone through the roof in the last 40 years and especially in the last 20. And you the user aren't a whole lot better off DLing a PDF and printing it out yourself, considering the cost of paper and ink/toner. The one advantage of DIY is that you can choose to print only those parts that you expect to be regularly referring to.

Michael

[Elmar Bijlsma]

Ah, Ye Olde printed manual.

Especially in games like CM I treasure them greatly. But I hardly ever read them. Not reading read them. A handful of quick consultations at most.

Yet I would hate to do without it. There is an undefinable niceness about them. It makes a game purchase more tangible.

For truly fine manuals, there's the LucasArts sims and of course MicroProse. Now those were epic manuals. Not only read those cover to cover, but re-read them.

[Barkhorn1x]

Ah, Ye Olde printed manual.

Especially in games like CM I treasure them greatly. But I hardly ever read them. Not reading read them. A handful of quick consultations at most.

Yet I would hate to do without it. There is an undefinable niceness about them. It makes a game purchase more tangible.

For truly fine manuals, there's the LucasArts sims and of course MicroProse. Now those were epic manuals. Not only read those cover to cover, but re-read them.

Yes, Microprose was good. But...the most epic manual had to be for Falcon 4.0 - spiral bound and 100's of pages long. I haven't flown that sim in years - most likely never will again - but I will keep the manual.