Whatr is the M707 Hummve for?

[Irwin277]

Ok, probable a dumb question but what do you guys use the M707 for? It only has a laser target thing on top (yes, that is the correct terminology in the Irwin house). I'm guessing it's used to target for arty.

Any advice?

[snake_eye]

You are right, that is the best way to use it. You have to get one of the crew out of the Humvee's hatch then call Artillery, Mortars and or Air assets on the place being viewed (fire on button) by the crew member using the device. Usually the firing time is around 2 minutes for mortars, which is somehow almost 50% less than the usual time for an Artillery Observer team.

The main drawback, is that the Humvee is a price target for the enemy and it doesn't take that much time to have it destroyed.

Cheers

[Noltyboy]

Its a strange contraption, the only real experiance i have of it is the early TF thunder mission where you have two of the things and no Arty.

Doesnt seem to spot anything better.

The M707 gets lot of questions asked about it however. I think theres a big useful thread in the tactics forum on the subject.

[MikeyD]

The M707 is in the game because the Army fields it for recce. It would be cooler (and of greater utility) if the Army fielded something with some teeth like Scimitar or ERC 90 Sagaie, but what can yah do? Army is about to field (is fielding?) a replacement, the same optic box on a larger M1117 "Guardian" hull... which would be no more game-friendly than the M707

[c3k]

The M707 in CMSF is a recce asset. Unbutton it, then send it ahead of your forces. Optionally, you can leave it behind your forces. Your choice. Next, to use its recce ability, ensure it is stopped with LOS towards the enemy. Have you unbuttoned it like I said? Good. Again, it doesn't matter if it's in front or behind, as long as there is some LOS towards the enemy. Now you need to wait about a minute or so. GPS acquisition, LASER exciter warmup, turret slew, etc; none of that matters. The reason you're waiting the minute or so is to allow the enemy time to destroy it. Is it burning and/or smoking? Excellent. Hopefully you had other friendly units which spotted where the enemy was who just destroyed it. If not, don't worry, use the other M707's. That's what they're there for. Back to that smoke; this is where the "up front" placement would help. The smoke provides concealment for your forces. Did any of the crew survive? Yes? Too bad for them. They get to do the same function as their vehicle. Send 'em forward. Have your real forces keep an eye out to spot the enemy.

Ken "who loves the utility of the M707"

[SSG Grymm]

The tankers following us would tease us and tell us they used the "burning" scout vehicles as TRP's, LOL. That was in training of course and using the MILES systems.

[Irwin277]

Is it burning and/or smoking? Excellent.

Quality, glad to hear I'd been deploying them correctly!

[souldierz]

C3k nailed in on the head LOL.

That's the way it worked for me when I first tried them.I heard they spot the enemy better with all that gear but the naked eye of the enemy always managed to spot them first and put a well placed rpg in its window leaving my men toast and me stupefied!

Now i keep them hiding and pull them out to maybe call in some Air or arty, But mostly if not always I decided to make the crew members my new Javelin teams.

[Peter Panzer]

I will guess that many players see the word "recon" in the unit's description and assume the team must be placed at the foremost edge of the formation in order to be used properly. Not true. Ideally, recon teams conduct operations in the objective area after their security teams are in position. As the commander of the recon element you have two key, concurrent goals, passing information up the chain and ensuring security for your teams.

Spearheading a recon company with what amounts to a single Cav Trooper/Marine with a carbine is generally not a technique tied to success. Likewise, silouetting a lone Humvee on an exposed ridgeline while they "do recon" is a brilliant means of getting them aired out. Think more creatively and holistically when managing the fight.

Light recon elements working in isolation are going to be summarily shot to hell when compromised - they should have other units providing mutual support in the event they must break contact. Utilize their strengths of mobility, high-powered optics/designators and lower profile to keep your distance from the OPFOR and maximize their survivability. Further more, cover/concealment and "tactical patience" are key to their effective use. The later point is crucial. If you just can't wait to push through that platoon of M1's, then perhaps missions dictating "recon-by-fire" are more your speed.

I often employ these teams to screen the flanks of my main formation or have them observe from secured locations already being screened to the rear of the AO. As a matter of course, I will pair up '707's with another armed M1114 or a M3/LAV. Recon elements should continue to remain active throughout the engagement, identifying alternate OP's, conducting fire support missions** and relocating as the engagement dictates.

Game notes:

• **M707 crews can no longer call in fire support missions (artillery/CAS) after v1.21.
  
• The LRAS3 mount/turret ring on the M707 does not rotate to the assigned direction when a "Cover Arc" is issued. A small detail, but maybe this can be corrected when the NATO Module/v1.22 is released.

[Other Means]

Game notes:

• **M707 crews can no longer call in fire support missions (artillery/CAS) after v1.21.
  
• The LRAS3 mount/turret ring on the M707 does not rotate to the assigned direction when a "Cover Arc" is issued. A small detail, but maybe this can be corrected when the NATO Module/v1.22 is released.

They both sound like bugs. Yes?

[Pvt. Ryan]

Many vehicles can no longer call for fire support in v1.21.

[dan/california]

In an ideal world these things never get within a couple of clicks of an enemy afv. The optics have a range of 10 or 15 kilometers depending on atmospheric conditions.

[Peter Panzer]

Other Means:

Originally Posted by Peter Panzer

Game notes:

• **M707 crews can no longer call in fire support missions (artillery/CAS) after v1.21.
  
• The LRAS3 mount/turret ring on the M707 does not rotate to the assigned direction when a "Cover Arc" is issued. A small detail, but maybe this can be corrected when the NATO Module/v1.22 is released.

They both sound like bugs. Yes?

Minor though it may be in the big picture, the lack of turret rotation is definitely an oversight. There should be a full 360 degree range of traverse.

The inability to call for fire support with the M707 is a mystery to me. Theoretically speaking, these guys can easily pass off GPS coordinates to artillery units and laze targets for CAS. It has been said the deadliest weapon in a recon element is their radio. I could be wrong, but I don't think any unit with the rank of Specialist or below can request fire support post v1.21.

Any help you could provide in getting these issues ironed out in the next (last?) revision would be fantastic. Thanks, as always, for your help.

[Lanzfeld]

Could we PLEASE beef up the spotting of these things with a small tweak in the 1.32 patch so we can finally use these things?

Also...the LOS should be measured from the optics so we can just peak the top over the hill and not present a huge target.

As you may have guessed I just played mission 3.

[dan/california]

If you advance them until they explode you have exceptionally good idea of where you need to start being careful with more useful bits of kit.

[Battlefront.com]

Yes, the M707 should be an excellent platform for calling in artillery and/or airstrikes. Not only can it see just about anything, but it can get GPS coordinates, ranges, and even laze targets. It's quite a neat million buck (or was it $1.2 mil?) gadget.

Spotting for artillery requires selecting the passenger unit, not the vehicle itself (unless the vehicle has a dedicated crew only, of course). IIRC we corrected a logic flaw a long time ago which allowed a non-qualified unit, oh... say a buck private assigned as a driver, to make spotting calls just like a FO simply because he was in the vehicle. In real life, just because you sit in a fancy vehicle doesn't mean you can operate the fancy stuff like a pro.

I don't remember why the LRAS3 system doesn't rotate. I think it is because the game can only rotate a weapon. I'll double check, but I don't think this is likely to change with v1.32.

Steve

[gibsonm]

The tankers following us would tease us and tell us they used the "burning" scout vehicles as TRP's, LOL. That was in training of course and using the MILES systems.

Different Army, same story.

If a Recce callsign no longer answers on the Comd net, that's my cbt indicator that the bad guys are near its last known location.

[Lanzfeld]

I was more talking about how they dont really spot well in the game but thanks for responding Steve.

Mission 3 in the Thunder campaign is a good example of what I am talking about. Put the 707's at the far end of the map and with those optices the should spot almost everyone on the other side of the map in the trenches (they are only 1500 meters away!). The 707's should be able to tell me everything about that trenchline but it doesnt even see troops unless the fire. Even then it is just "?".

and yes, they have LOS.

[AslakH]

I was more talking about how they dont really spot well in the game but thanks for responding Steve.

Mission 3 in the Thunder campaign is a good example of what I am talking about. Put the 707's at the far end of the map and with those optices the should spot almost everyone on the other side of the map in the trenches (they are only 1500 meters away!). The 707's should be able to tell me everything about that trenchline but it doesnt even see troops unless the fire. Even then it is just "?".

and yes, they have LOS.

I've noticed the same thing. It can't see a damned thing.

Once a BMP drove into LOS, but it didn't see it till after it had missed (barely) two times on the 707.

I just bail out the crew and use them for reserve security forces.

[stikkypixie]

I've noticed the same thing. It can't see a damned thing.

Once a BMP drove into LOS, but it didn't see it till after it had missed (barely) two times on the 707.

I just bail out the crew and use them for reserve security forces.

Were they unbuttoned (the 707?), because otherwise they can't use the fancy optics.

[AslakH]

Yes, it was unbuttoned.

I can't see the modern "digital battleground" in this.

Seems like WW2, just with some fancy rockets and choppers.

Fun, none the less.

[dan/california]

I have said this before but it is worth repeating, if this vehicle is on a CMSF map with any enemy to speak of, it to &$$ing close. It also happens to be the real scout platoon TO&E. So if if you can't find it a very safe over watch position just park it out of the way somewhere. Ponder the Pentagons logic at least as much as BFC's in this case at least. Maybe they figured if they made it completely helpless in a fight he crews would try harder to avoid them.

And the game does give you the single biggest advantage the blue side has, which is more or less perfect blue force tracker effectively.

[Dietrich]

Yes, the M707 is in various US Army and USMC TO&E, and in CMSF one is often assigned two or three M707s without any on-map support to speak of; but isn't the M707 supposed to be operate in conjunction with the M3 CFV? One could argue in support of the hypothesis that it's not that the M707 is useless/cannon fodder but that, for one reason or another, M707s are all too often separated from the CFVs of their platoon. (And of course I understand that this is irrelevant with regard to USMC M707s.)

[Alan8325]

I think in CMSF the M707, along with all vehicles with mast-mounted sensors such as TOW vehicles, are simply crippled by the LOS problem. It's explained in detail in another thread, but I'm too lazy to search for it at the moment. In a nutshell all vehicles in the game have one point of LOS generation, which is at the center of the vehicle, and adding an additional one would be a coding nightmare that isn't worth going through for CMSF.

IMO remote sensors will play a MUCH bigger role in CMSF2 and will probably be worth fixing by then.

[Lanzfeld]

for the m707 its not only a LOS problem but also a sensor issue. It cant see very well. Cetainly not as well as IRL.