hcrof Posted December 30, 2009 Author Share Posted December 30, 2009 I looked very long and hard at that option On the extreme right of the picture you edited you can see a second field which is out of sight of any of Mikes forces on North hill and elsewhere. This continues until you get to the thick forest on the other side. At this point, I'm not sure my tanks or BMPs can get through that forest so infantry would have to go in unsupported. From there it is a 150m run up a steep hill with no cover to get into the trees on north hill. I would have tried it earlier but Mike now seems to have most of that slope covered by a BMP The other option would be to cross the river at a ford near the forest but you get very exposed on the other side! As for reserves, I would say we still have equal forces at this point. However, I believe it is easier for Mike to shift his forces lateraly if he has to. I think you are right that Mike will get over confident. I believe he will consolidate on north hill before scraping together a force to take south hill and BIGFARM. He wouldn't be stupid enough to try and continue his advance in the north! In a way this will play into my hands, if I can hold in the south, it will draw his reserves in and away from BRIDGE. The key is his artillery. If he can destroy another platoon in the south then it is probably game over for me. At some point I will put this scenario up on the Repository but based on this battle I will make a few adjustments. North hill way too important right now as it totally dominates the map. I think I will expand the map north to give more options to the commanders, it will also mean that battles will be able to be fought North-South as well as East-West. I do love massive maps and I have a feeling this one is going to get pretty huge by the time I am happy with it! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frankster65 Posted December 31, 2009 Share Posted December 31, 2009 Just finished the entire thread and have been mesmorized by your DAR! What a great read! The writing style is superb and the screenshots are an art all to themselves. Well done sir. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RadioactiveMan Posted December 31, 2009 Share Posted December 31, 2009 Wow! Great thread. I am very much enjoying watching this battle unfold. As has been pointed out- your screenshots add a lot of character to this AAR! Well done, sir, well done indeed :cool: I'm gonna agree with Lethaface- don't abandon your attack just yet! Did Left Platoon die for nothing?!? You are already halfway across the open ground, get that infantry into Hillfarm and hide them there, soldier! From your description (I wish I had the map file to look at) it looks like there may be a defilade directly along that road. How much taller is the hilltop than the buildings of HILLFARM? What do you think of his positioning... is there an opening right in the middle that may not be well guarded? Here is a graphic to diagram what I am envisioning: The key question is: Has there been no fire in that middle area because he can't see it? Or because you haven't had anything there to shoot at? If you think the former, get some smoke down and get in there. He is asking for a knife-range fight, so give it to him. You already showed that you can dish it out well at close range with just infantry on the hilltop- do the same here and bring your tanks into play! You described the hilltop fight like a close range paintball fight w/ ak47s... The key in those fights is all about finessing your orders. When to Hunt, Assault, Quick Move, Target Fire, etc... its a bit of a tricky art. I'm sure you can manage it though. Even if not, it should make some great screenshots! Anyway, cool battle. Thanks very much for taking the time. I look forward to the next installment. I think you are doing well so far... the only mistake I saw was trying to move that platoon in the South while under mortar fire. I had a feeling they would get air-bursted Better to let them just hug the ground and pray their tree protects them, in my opinion. Cheers. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Other Means Posted January 1, 2010 Share Posted January 1, 2010 FWIW, I think you're doing the right thing by re-planning. Insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting it to work. You're still both fencing with infantry and arty. You've not tried to win the armour war. Find his tanks reserves - get him to commit them or scout them out - and use your massed armour to kill them. Then use them to win the squishy war. Re-organise, make an attack in strength and see if he brings his tanks out. Be in a position to take advantage when he does. ...or do what you're doing, great fun. I'm actually reminded of a saying of General Grant "In every battle there comes a time when both sides consider themselves beaten, then he who continues the attack wins.". 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hcrof Posted January 1, 2010 Author Share Posted January 1, 2010 RadioactiveMan - Nice graphic Strangly, left hand platoon has only lost the HQ squad, the other one is amazingly protected by the worlds smallest fold in the ground and has only lost the RPG guy. My CO is still alive but whether he survives the next turn is debatable Unfortunately one of the T-62s has eyes on top half of the road so a fast attack becomes difficult to say the least. The wind favours me here however. it is quite strong and will blow smoke along the road. I have already given the orders to retreat unfortunately but will bear your plan in mind for the next attack. I could send a platoon of tanks up the road covered by smoke. Mike has begun to send in more infantry into HILLFARM again - I can see an RPG team at least. I will have to flatten the place . One of Mikes advantages on the hill is that he can shift his defenders around fast because he is using vehicles. He did it on the right so I am convinced that he will do it again in another pure infantry attack. By preparing a proper combined arms attack I can hope to nullify this advantage somewhat as it will happen much faster. With the amount of artillery I plan to put on the hill + my tanks, Mike has 3 choices: 1. Stay and fight where he is. A bad choice, I will take some losses but he will be wiped out and the balence of forces will shift strongly in my favour. Additionally, the route to BRIDGE will be lightly defended and if I am fast, I can hit my objective before he is able to shift his forces. As bad as this choice is, it is not entirely unlikely. It basically means do nothing which is always tempting and CMSF players don't retreat nearly as often as their real life counterparts! 2. Retreat back to BRIDGE and set up a new line of defenses. Another bad move, I would gain the hill which is a huge tactical advantage and then could rain down HE onto his positions. He preserves his forces but gives up any chances of winning. Highly unlikely. 3. Retreat to the reverse slope and try to catch my forces as they come over the top. Use tanks on the opposite slope to support the defense. This seems to be the most logical option. The resulting battle would be bloody and it would be diffcult to call the outcome but I have a bad feeling it would be stalemate. I would have numerical superiority (I think!) and I could try to use artillery again to 'herd' him off the hill. Other Means talks about an armoured battle. It would most definately happen here, but I believe I might have an advantage if I can Hull down enough tanks. Other Means - I believe our tanks are doing a bit of 'You show me yours and I'll show you mine' Mike doesn't like to commit his armour reserve until I have commited mine. I have exploited this before (By boxing him in with infantry and ATGMs so the tanks became trapped in a bad area) and hopefully will be able to figure out a way to exploit it again! I like that quote! Reminds me of a few CMSF battles... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
souldierz Posted January 1, 2010 Share Posted January 1, 2010 I hope you plan your attack well and as an unexpected move if all works out for ya:). The major advantage Mike has, is that he has the momentum on his side and can dictate the battle at this point, Since you will be falling back to try reorganize an attack, Mike can take advantage of this by pressing on keeping you disorganized and on your heels by skirmish attacks or a continuous attack, or he can take this time to move his forces into better firing positions, but it seems like after hillfarm he would have to cross over wide open lands and there's a good chance that he could take loss's and be halted and pushed back by you. Mike has one other main advantage and that's knowing where the attack will be and from where it's coming from so he will know where to defend, so chances are he dug into some defensive positions in and around Hillfarm and is holding waiting for you while he plans a counter attack or a move from somewhere. Good read.Like most, i also want to see how this proceeds and ends.Seems like we turned this thread into a War council.Keep it up. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hcrof Posted January 1, 2010 Author Share Posted January 1, 2010 Yep, at this point Mike is dictating the pace of the battle. However, neither of us has fully comitted his forces yet so I wouldn't say it is a massive advantage. Yet. I don't think that Mike can really take advantage of this retreat. Like I said, I never comitted all of my forces and I have loads of overwatch and reserves (Those tanks!). If Mike moves out of the trees to get my retreating troops he will get badly mauled and he knows it! In the North therefore he is static and that means he is vulnerable to my artillery when it finally arrives. However, like you say, Mike will be planning something. I sense a probe to the south soon He doesn't have to capture both objectives to win however so he won't press hard. The ball is in my court. I have to attack or lose! Oh yeah, RadioactiveMan, I just re read your post and you were very right when you said I made a mistake by telling my guys to run away from artillery. I regret that so much right now! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomm Posted January 1, 2010 Share Posted January 1, 2010 Did any vehicle fire it's smoke mortars yet? They are incredibly useful and should be prominent in every Red-on-Red battle! Best regards, Thomm 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Webwing Posted January 3, 2010 Share Posted January 3, 2010 hcrof, Wow, this has got to be one of the most complete and interesting DARs I´ve read! Awesome! Congrats. It shows the full potential of this game! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ilochim Posted January 4, 2010 Share Posted January 4, 2010 Hi everyone. This description of battle remind me good book about battle of Polish army vs German tank division in first december in year 1939. Author studied terrain on maps, in the field and talk with combatants and read their diaries. Then he has compared everything and create realistic "image" of battle witch used tactics and strategic (E.g. Polish officers in the course of battles in forests orders their man to take out magazines from rifles and fix bayonets. When soldiers meet more numerous Germans squads in close distance they don't stop and start firefight with their BARs against MG34s. Beside they start shouting and running with bayonets to surprised enemies who ran away in panic). Hcrof you probably haven't go time for this but maybe little trick can help in your situation. Send 1 tank to right flank of map. Take 2 BMPs from defenders of big farm and with this 3 vehicles ride with full speeds between forests few times. Meanwhile give fire mission to one artillery squad to enemy position on the right. Probably if he see in long distance some tanks and mechs icons he will think you engage half of his tank on the left and start preparing to real attack on the right. Something like that: Sorry for my bad English. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ilochim Posted January 4, 2010 Share Posted January 4, 2010 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hcrof Posted January 4, 2010 Author Share Posted January 4, 2010 Thomm - Only my tanks have smoke mortars so I havn't used them yet. Mike has, when one of his T-62s got hit by an RPG. You are right though, they can be very useful. ilochim - I like that idea, it might be difficult to move a tank to the right without Mike seeing it but artillery fire and BMP's I can do. When I get the next turn I will have a look at it. Can anyone remember if Smoke missions drop HE spotting rounds? I am planning on a smoke screen on the right anyway but the spotting rounds might look like the begining of an artillery barrage! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
General Jack Ripper Posted January 5, 2010 Share Posted January 5, 2010 hcrof - This DAR makes good reading while listening to DeathKlok. I look foward to more updates! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hcrof Posted January 7, 2010 Author Share Posted January 7, 2010 The order was given to retreat and men turned to run. No sooner were they up however before a huge volley of high calibre fire came poring out of the trees. Right hand platoon was worst hit as men were thrown around by explosion after explosion. The third platoon made it out but the retreat began to look more like a rout than a withdrawal as spotting artillery rounds added their fire to the inferno that the field had now become. On the left, two BMPs disobeyed orders and raced out of cover to avenge their fallen comrades. They spot a tank and both launch their missiles... You lose concentration for a second... I should have used infantry smoke. I knew it. But I was in a hurry giving the orders and didn't think it through and have lost most of a platoon because of my mistake. The same story on the right, I double clicked on a platoon and issued move orders, forgetting about the vehicles further back. Hopefully, I will gain something out of this disaster because both ATGMs are on target so far! One question I would love to know the answer to is why did mike open fire now and not earlier? He clearly had my infantry in his sights for a while and had I moved less cautiously I would be in HILLFARM right now! Bizarre. On another less positive note: Where the hell is my artillery!? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lethaface Posted January 8, 2010 Share Posted January 8, 2010 it seems that Murphy's law is catching up with you... However he was probably awaiting the force of your assault and when you turned him your back he knew he could pound away without risks. Hope your ATGM's can deal out some revenge! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hcrof Posted January 9, 2010 Author Share Posted January 9, 2010 I'm not even going to write up the next turn. I am just speechless with anger. I told my rogue BMPs to drive as fast as they could down to the river after their missile hits so they can get protection from the trees. They decide to reverse a bit in the other direction and stop in the middle of a field. Meanwhile Mike sees the threat, moves his tank to safety and fires. I lose 1 rogue BMP and another one providing overwatch in a hull down location. I shouldn't get emotional but seriously wtf!? And where the hell is my arty!? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hcrof Posted January 10, 2010 Author Share Posted January 10, 2010 As the battalion commander watched the remnants of his force flee the hilltop he heard on the radio that the second BMP near BIGFARM had been lost. This battle had gone from bad to worse and thoughts of retreat flickered in his head. Suddenly a new voice on the radio: 'This is 3 battery – we have set up and are cleared to fire' Artillery support! Time to start again! And this time there will be no half hearted attacks. This time it will be all or nothing! OK, artillery support has arrived, my guys are back in the carriers and I have calmed down somewhat. From now on the battle has changed. My new objectives are to throw Mike off the hill and use that as a platform to bombard his forces with HE causing me to win due to him taking more losses than me. To do this I will use very large amounts of artillery! My fireplan, it will take about 14 minutes to arrive 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Kettler Posted January 11, 2010 Share Posted January 11, 2010 hcrof, Most unfortunate! Hoping you have better luck with Bog Voiny (God of War, what the Russians call artillery). "Drop 200 and fire for effect!" "Batteriya-- Ogon!" Regards, John Kettler 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lethaface Posted January 14, 2010 Share Posted January 14, 2010 My fireplan, it will take about 14 minutes to arrive hcrof, Your area fire mission with 'Armour' selected, can you tell me why you chose armour? I have come to believe that 'armour' just means tighter grouping of shells? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
taccovert4 Posted January 14, 2010 Share Posted January 14, 2010 No armour is armor piercing rounds. They're what he'll need to do more than superficial damage to tanks, and depending on caliber, to BMPs as well. The don't do as much damage to infantry unless they're in buildings though IIRC. In buildings the AP rounds will penetrate the roof better than HE, but in the open, they overpenetrate into the ground and don't do as much, unless making foxholes is considered doing something positive. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
c3k Posted January 14, 2010 Share Posted January 14, 2010 Hmmm, MY understanding is fuzing: Personnel=airbust; general=contact; armor=delay. So, for destroying units IN buildings, armor is the better selection. I was told this on a previous thread, I really don't have horse in this race. Ken 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hcrof Posted January 14, 2010 Author Share Posted January 14, 2010 well taccovert may be right. I don't generally try to destroy armour with artillery though because my opponent generally just moves the vehicles and they are safe. My thinking behind the armour mission is because that ellipse is where I want the rounds to go - I want the tighter grouping. The linear fire mission is general to spread the rounds out a bit off the line. I don't think Mike will lose any vehicles with the barrage but the confusion it causes will prevent him from putting up effective resistace to my attack. Right now we are just staring at each other, Mike is dropping airburst occasionally in front of me to discourage another infantry attack. Fat lot of good that will do him :cool: A question. If I use all my mortar HE, can I still use the smoke rounds? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wiggum Posted January 14, 2010 Share Posted January 14, 2010 Hmmm, MY understanding is fuzing: Personnel=airbust; general=contact; armor=delay. So, for destroying units IN buildings, armor is the better selection. I was told this on a previous thread, I really don't have horse in this race. Ken ...no i want to know whats right. Can someone tell us whats the truth ? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lethaface Posted January 15, 2010 Share Posted January 15, 2010 If your mortars are empty unfortunately no more smoke missions possible 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin Posted January 19, 2010 Share Posted January 19, 2010 anything coming soon? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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