John Kettler Posted February 9, 2010 Share Posted February 9, 2010 hcrof, Seems you're like me in CM, most dangerous when in a jam! Well played! As for the "expanding torrent," flamingknives is correct. Hart was talking about the action after the breakthrough in which tanks start to stream through the shattered defense, their numbers and power swelling as the exploitation phase really gets going. Regards, John Kettler 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snake_eye Posted February 9, 2010 Share Posted February 9, 2010 Right now I am thinking that I should have been more agressive from the start to seize and hold the north hill. I even said it was Mikes decisive point! I will do a full debreif at the end but the battle isn't over yet! John - what do you mean by Liddell Hart? Wikipedia didn't turn up much Hi Hcrof, I shall gladly put back the white sheet ! As, I said earlier at the time of the first firefights, I would have attacked with all the armor by passing Hillfarm under a smoke screen and established an all around defense at the bridge to disorganize its defense setup. Then with the following BMP's and troops I would have rammed into its rear on either side, taking its defense by the rear toward the Hillfarm and the south Farm. As, you found it out yourself, the best plan (on the chart) go down. If Napoleon, though on a well know battle that its cavalry was coming, instead it was the opponent and he lost the battle, we don't have to feel bad. After all not everybody can be a tactical genius like him P.S : Liddell hart was the English counterpart of the German Guderian (called the father of the panzers units in WW2). However Guderian was mostly influenced by its reading on the doctrinal use of panzers made by Fuller and in a lesser part by the ones written by De Gaulle John has already answered about the tactic used by Liddell Hart. Break through in mass and go right and left and straight forward, looking for the rear defenses and ramming the units in order to create chaos and disorganization. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hcrof Posted February 10, 2010 Author Share Posted February 10, 2010 The three vehicles wheeled round in a rough formation and began to make their way through the trees. One of the tanks received small arms fire, killing the commander but it kept moving and put a shot into the enemy location. Just as it halted to deal with the enemy infantry properly it spotted the last enemy tank! A round through the side of the turret quickly put it out of action and the turret swung around again, hunting down the infantry. The BMP on the left spotted an enemy carrier and halted, letting off a round that caused the vehicle to immediately brew up. Another carrier was beyond the first and as soon as the autoloader slammed another round into the breach the BMP fired again. A second shot finished off the enemy as a third enemy carrier began to reverse into the BMPs sights. Suddenly, an RPG screamed out of nowhere hitting the front and as the crew bailed there was another huge explosion – two more enemy tanks had just crested the hill! Two enemy BMPs began to bombard the farm from the south, causing the remaining structures to collapse. As the infantry inside fled to better cover, round after round hit my tank from the trees. First the tracks were knocked out, then eventually a weak spot was found and power was lost – the crew had to bail! In the south my infantry lay in wait watching the hill when a soldier heard something. 'Sergeant, there's movement to our left.' Everybody lay absolutely still listening. Soon it came again – something was moving in the trees! The signal was given and everybody rolled over, they couldn't see **** in this wood! A helmet appeared, followed by a man, followed by another. In single file they were trying to push their way through the foliage as quietly as possible. They had no idea their enemy was so close... No order was given. Suddenly everyone opened fire wildly, sending burst after burst into the trees. In the confusion some froze, some dropped to the floor, some ran. The sergeant saw three men fall but there could be an army of them in there. 'Keep shooting!' Mike has just declared all in! The cards are on the table now and suddenly I am outflanked and outnumbered in tanks now! This will be an interesting fight, I will definitely lose HILLFARM now but how many vehicles can I take with me? My BMP did its job magnificently, not only did it destroy two of Mikes carriers, it also took the hit from his tanks and hidden RPGs. I could not have asked for a better screening action! Meanwhile one of my tanks has luckily stopped in a position where I can almost definitely get the first shot in on one of Mikes T-62s and the other destroyed another. I am now heavily outnumbered and surrounded in the forest but hopefully I can do a bloody last stand. If I can destroy his last tanks that opens up the possibility of an attack in the south to take BRIDGE. Mike walked straight into my troops and I am beginning to maul a whole platoon of his infantry! This looks like this battle will end up in a bit of a Pyrrhic victory for whoever wins Meanwhile, my spotter rounds are beginning to fall on the south hill... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lethaface Posted February 10, 2010 Share Posted February 10, 2010 Would be fun to see a DAR written by Mike at the same time of yours... I'm wondering what he was thinking going all in. Is he 'confident' he can steamroll to victory or was it a 'last' attempt to save the day? It might even be possible he was tipsy and thought 'feck it' As I have noticed I tend to do so playing poker and although the profitability is not always good, going all in without any real reason -apart from alcohol- always surprises opponents and results in spectacular games! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hcrof Posted February 10, 2010 Author Share Posted February 10, 2010 Heh, I would love to see one too! Although from the next post it seems to be more of a desperate gamble. I think he saw all of those tanks and panicked - I think not only has he thrown in his reserve, he has also shifted men from his defence! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hcrof Posted February 10, 2010 Author Share Posted February 10, 2010 The left hand tank spotted the enemy vehicles coming over the hills and backed into a defensive position as the friendly infantry took positions in the moonscape of the hill. The squad spotted the enemy tanks coming round a patch of trees first and unleashed a torrent of fire at one. The RPG hit the thick turret armour however and the commander ducked into safety. Continuing the advance, his tank fired a shell that caused the infantry to dive to the ground. My tank aimed as soon as the tanks entered its sight picture and sent a round through the side of an enemy tank. As the crew began to bail another round crashed into them but as the third round was slammed into the breach, the commander spotted an enemy BMP less than 30m away! My second tank continued to push forward into the trees, round after round hitting the thick armour. It spotted a bailed out enemy tank and put a round in for good measure. Suddenly an enemy BMP was spotted at point blank range! Without waiting to reload the gunner put a long burst of 7.62 into the enemy vehicle and the unbuttoned gunner disappeared in a red mist. 'Infantry at 2 o'clock!' Shouted the gunner and the turret slewed round to engage. 'HEAT up!' Another enemy round crashed into the turret and the loader screamed – covered in spall from the side. 'BMP at 12 o'clock!' Screamed the driver, slamming the tank into reverse The turret swung round again and the gunner took aim but as he pushed the fire switch the tank crashed backwards into a tree and the round went high. Tearing its way though vegetation and bouncing into craters the wounded tank fled backwards as the gunner frantically scanned for targets in its way... In the south the squad kept shooting as friends ran to outflank the enemy patrol. There was little return fire but one man fell just as a huge flurry of grenades exploded in the bushes. A few men tried to run towards the river but they were cut down. As the platoon overran the shredded remains of the enemy they spotted a few disappearing back into a field. They had to pursue them! Enemies are cut down as they flee into the forest (South Ambush) Wow. Mike has really thrown all in, I honestly don't know where he has found all of these troops! In the north I now estimate Mike has 9 BMPs and at least 1 tank, even with the heavy losses he has already taken. As for infantry I have no idea – my tanks have taken so many RPG hits from so many directions I have given up trying to find their positions. I have given up on HILLFARM and everyone that can get away is now retreating to BIGFARM. Those that are left (My 1.5 tanks and infantry) will make a last stand. If I can destroy Mikes last tank then we are back on an even footing but by now I think Mike must have taken heavier losses than me! In the south my ambush went well. I destroyed approximately one squad for the cost of one casualty of my own and spotting rounds continue to fall on the south hill. I have also ordered a mortar barrage near HILLFARM. Hopefully any infantry Mike moves in to hold the place should get a nasty surprise! The next question is do I attack in the south and attempt to trump HILLFARM by taking BRIDGE? I suspect him to be greatly weakened there with almost no defenders. In the real world no one would be that bloody minded but this is a game... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lethaface Posted February 11, 2010 Share Posted February 11, 2010 If you manage to maul his last tank you could possibly still slaughter him However 9 BMP's can make it very tough. In my current PBEM game I have managed to hide a single T-90 which has taken out my opponents last functional Challenger 2 Although the rest of my T-90's were quite easily brewed up (ATGM's took out the majority of enemy tanks), it is now the most powerful vehicle in the map (if my opponent didn't hide any tanks that is). Last turn I was able to take out a warrior and a spartan loaded with troops, without any apparent danger to my T-90. For the first time with Red I feel I dictate the battle Good luck! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hcrof Posted February 11, 2010 Author Share Posted February 11, 2010 Well I lost my last tanks (sort of) Read below 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hcrof Posted February 11, 2010 Author Share Posted February 11, 2010 Both tanks now desperately retreated, trying to get away from the enemies surrounding them. The first took a 73mm hit to the turret, then a 115mm round just as it destroyed the BMP. The crew bailed and began to crawl away. The second tank continued crashing back through the trees as round after round hit from all sides. The gunner took shrapnel in the arm and the driver, as the only unwounded member of the crew, fled the vehicle. As he ran, the tank took more and more hits until finally the wounded beast died. In the south the enemy was almost destroyed. The few survivors ran backwards into the trees where they were again outflanked, taking more casualties. At the last moment however, a grenade rolled into the triumphant soldiers and exploded – killing 4 men instantly! One of my tanks just took 16(!) RPG/73mm hits from 3 sides this turn alone. That I think gives you an idea of how badly they were outnumbered and surrounded! I have managed to get my bailed out tank back into action which kind of makes up for the losses on north hill but I still think Mike has 2 tanks left in total. North: 1 Tank, 8 BMPs, 1 platoon of infantry with extra RPG teams? South/BRIDGE: 1.5 platoons of infantry, 2 MG sections, at least 3 BMPs, 1 tank, 2 ATGM sections I have: 1 tank (missing crewman), 1 ATGM section, 2 plt infantry, 2 MG sections, 11 BMPs Given that the balance of forces are equal but Mike occupies the high ground, an objective and roads to shuttle troops around I think I might offer my surrender and congratulations. What do people think? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lethaface Posted February 11, 2010 Share Posted February 11, 2010 Fight until the last man! Seriously with those 11 BMP's you can do a lot of damage. Attacking against high grounds is difficult though. You still have one tank and a lot of ATGM's if you count the BMP's so I for one would go for it 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sfhand Posted February 11, 2010 Share Posted February 11, 2010 Never give up, never surrender! True commitment never occurs in the absence of doubt. How will this battle ever become one where you staged a comeback if you quit? I can't tell you how many times I've had my opponents beaten to a pulp mid-way though a game only to have the tables turned and a loss hung around my neck. (I had a feeling the counter attack on Hill Farm wasn't going to go well for you, but I don't have a feeling that your chances to win have evaporated, this is CM after all and strange things can happen) The bigger question, for me at least, is how much time is left... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Kettler Posted February 11, 2010 Share Posted February 11, 2010 hcrof, If that's what you're thinking, then you'd better hope the stukachi from the KGB and GLAVPUR are all dead. If not, they'll shoot you! I absolutely agree with Lethaface. You have lot of remaining combat power, a significant mobility advantage over Mike's south force, plenty of AT assets to use against his remaining AFVs and an infantry superiority. His forces that just fought yours are pretty badly cut up and will need time to sort themselves out. Don't give it to them! Finish them off, then rinse and repeat. Concentrate overwhelming force on successive enemy elements and chew them up. I don't know whether it works the same in CMSF as it did in CMx1 games, but if it does, and your morale permits doing so, retreat units no longer able to fight from the field in order to deny Mike the points he might otherwise get. This includes unhorsed AFV crews, ammo exhausted weapon crews and any F-Killed AFVs. You've got the BMPs, so hit him "in the liver," as the Russians say! Regards, John Kettler 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lethaface Posted February 12, 2010 Share Posted February 12, 2010 Sfhand has a good point though, as you will need time to conduct an attack in your current situation. Slowly, inch by inch, an ambushing attack Perhaps you see a way to lure his tanks with one of your BMP's, and then kill them with your tanks and other BMP's from a flanking position? Of course there will be the danger of another flank outflanked... It is difficult to say something meaningful without seeing the terrain, but I sure as hell would never give up! No retreat, no surrender; death before dishonor! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hoolaman Posted February 12, 2010 Share Posted February 12, 2010 hcrof, could you please post some top down maps so we can see where everything is? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
souldierz Posted February 12, 2010 Share Posted February 12, 2010 Where there's a will, there's a way.No surrender:). 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sivodsi Posted February 12, 2010 Share Posted February 12, 2010 This is far too entertaining for you to entertain surrendering! Fight on! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Field Marshal Blücher Posted February 12, 2010 Share Posted February 12, 2010 This is far too entertaining for you to entertain surrendering! Fight on! Well, he could surrender . . . provided he begins another one immediately! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan8325 Posted February 12, 2010 Share Posted February 12, 2010 At the last moment however, a grenade rolled into the triumphant soldiers and exploded – killing 4 men instantly! It's little events like this that make every battle unique, even if the exact same plans are used in the same scenario, giving CMSF such the replayability it has! Given that the balance of forces are equal but Mike occupies the high ground, an objective and roads to shuttle troops around I think I might offer my surrender and congratulations. What do people think? "Never give in. Never give in. Never, never, never, never -- in nothing, great or small, large or petty -- never give in, except to convictions of honour and good sense. Never yield to force. Never yield to the apparently overwhelming might of the enemy." - Winston Churchill 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ilochim Posted February 12, 2010 Share Posted February 12, 2010 Hcrof, your a commander, warrior. Your situation in the last few rounds change very quickly, one time better, one time worst. Warrior its not about perfection or invariability, its about absolutely variability. Life is choice, you can choice to be a victim or anything else you want to be. About your loses and sense\emotion of defeat and impotence reach for victory, remember Warrior acts, only fool reacts. Hcrof try to suppress emotions when making orders. If you asking yourself "what if i can't do it?", thats a future throw out. We can not lose ours lifes for living in the past or in the future. Only here and now are important. Hcrof, warrior acts. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lethaface Posted February 16, 2010 Share Posted February 16, 2010 And what did you do? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hcrof Posted February 16, 2010 Author Share Posted February 16, 2010 As the men ran to set up an all round defence around the position they just took, bullets came cracking out of the trees, cutting down 2 men and wounding another! Not knowing where the fire was coming from, they fled in panic - abandoning their newly gained position. Their platoon leader wasn't stupid though, he had ordered a second squad to work their way up to the treeline in order to flank the enemy. As the enemy security detachment opened fire they were spotted and a hail of bullets and grenades cut them down. There were few survivors. He then heard his own security detachment shout out - enemy BMPs cresting the hill! Those BMPs would be driving into an ambush - their route took them less than 150m from the hidden RPG teams waiting for them... I love little platoon sized knife fights I must have killed at least 10 or 12 of his guys for the loss of 6 of my own, and now his BMPs are driving into an RPG team I put to cover my back! Apart from that, not a lot is happening right now - I am trying to get as many of my men safely to the south side of the map as possible. I had a couple of near misses and my FO team got shredded by a well placed 73mm a few meters away from their UAZ as they were speeding down the road - only 1 left! My tank has only just got going though - I hope his tanks dont get eyes on it! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Kettler Posted February 17, 2010 Share Posted February 17, 2010 hcrof, More "dull" uneventful war reportage, I see! I followed the first part, but not the UAZ bits. Are you saying you have one FO team member left, thus still have access to fire support, or are you saying you're now down to one UAZ from your original force, or what? Good luck with your tank! Regards, John Kettler 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan8325 Posted February 17, 2010 Share Posted February 17, 2010 @ John- I think what happened was a 73 hit near his UAZ occupied by his FO team and all but 1 man were killed/wounded by shrapnel. I know that at one point in CMSF development only the actual FO member of the FO team was allowed to call fire support, and if he died, then the rest of the team would be denied fire support along with all other non-FO units (for a "Red" force). In the latest version, however, I believe that any "Red" officer can call fire support. This would be FOs, platoon leaders, company and battalion commanders. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Kettler Posted February 17, 2010 Share Posted February 17, 2010 Alan8325, Was guessing it was as you say, but it wasn't necessarily cut and dried based on what was posted. Appreciate the clarification on who may call for fires. Regards, John Kettler 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hcrof Posted February 17, 2010 Author Share Posted February 17, 2010 Sorry guys, just for clarification, the whole team got wounded (red) and the UAZ destroyed. I have only one FO left who is capable of calling in artillery but obviously my officers can call in what is left of my mortar support. I was in a bit of a hurry last night and didn't read my post as thoroughly as I should! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.