During Action Report - hcrof vs Mike Churchmoor!

[John Kettler]

hcrof,

The answer to your question is obvious--because they're yours! Don't know why, but that's the way the CM games seems to work. This is precisely why when I play QBs I make sure I don't pin my hopes on a few uber AFVs, since this is a proven recipe for disaster. If you don't believe me, read my ROW AARs! The Jagdpanther bogs on damp ground, then is killed by a PIAT; the Crocodile, no matter how carefully protected, eats a 'schreck round; the key tank in an armored counterattack and loaded with infantry gets bombed, destroying both and breaking others nearby; the sharpshooter painstakingly stalks into position and is killed before firing a shot; your tanks miss every time, but counterfire threads the needle, comes through two windows in a house and kills your tank destroyer; your expensive air support works great--on your men and AFVs. C'est la guerre!

Regards,

John Kettler

[Vark]

Yes, and how come when you use move fast your men suffer casualties and pin as soon as engaged, but the AI can run towards your MG's, ignoring your veteran gunners best efforts. This same squad can then absorb a platoons worth of fire and pop up to gut your crack unit, when it launches a counter attack. After the battle you look in amazement as it is revealed to be a Green pioneer squad with rifles and SMG's.

I now always work on the principle that whilst planning I factor in the 'whats the worst that could happen' scenarios. Don't assume your 76.2mm will KO that Panzer at 120 metres, assume it will survive and knock out the gun, then go on to avoid your hidden tank hunters and knock them out! Hidden flame thrower crews successfully ambush that armoured car, pah! Plan that the veteran crews will spray fire everywhere but the target, will be knocked out, and don't even hope that double AT minefield will stop it. So have a back up PTRD team waiting, better yet two teams, as the first will be knocked out by the MG team who survived a mortar barrage. Your MG teams are panicked by a mere handful of 50mm bombs, your opponents are fighting fit after a 200 round 82mm deluge!

So, prepare for the most unlikely outcome and you should not be disappointed.

[ilochim]

In combat and life expect nothing then be prepare for anything.

[John Kettler]

hcrof,

Some lists of military verities when it comes to things not working out as planned. The second's from a U.S. Marine's web site. Lists like these wouldn't exist were there no underlying experiential basis.

http://www.galactic-guide.com/articles/6S22.html

http://www.hell-bent.org/combat.html

Regards,

John Kettler

[souldierz]

Those sayings in the links above are brilliant.There is nothing funnier then the realistic witty assessment of the true to life laws of flaws.

[snake_eye]

All of these comments are right, because they are common sense.

These could be added, too:

If you expect to get through a combat zone without a scratch, that is not common sense. That makes you behave wrongly and be careless.

Don’t assume that all the gears you have, will work perfectly at the right moment. They won’t some time and then the Murphy’s law will come along

Use your brain and only then your gears

If you assume that you can get rid of an enemy asset and or kill him, think first that he has the same though on mind. The smarter of the two, will be the winner or it will be a draw.

Think about the worst things that could happen and think about an alternative. That way, you won’t be surprised. That is, what they call Situation Awareness.

Cheers

[Moon]

hcrof,

The answer to your question is obvious--because they're yours! Don't know why, but that's the way the CM games seems to work. This is precisely why when I play QBs I make sure I don't pin my hopes on a few uber AFVs, since this is a proven recipe for disaster. If you don't believe me, read my ROW AARs! The Jagdpanther bogs on damp ground, then is killed by a PIAT; the Crocodile, no matter how carefully protected, eats a 'schreck round; the key tank in an armored counterattack and loaded with infantry gets bombed, destroying both and breaking others nearby; the sharpshooter painstakingly stalks into position and is killed before firing a shot; your tanks miss every time, but counterfire threads the needle, comes through two windows in a house and kills your tank destroyer; your expensive air support works great--on your men and AFVs. C'est la guerre!

Regards,

John Kettler

The really funny thing is that your opponent usually is thinking the exact same thing from the exact same battle!

[hcrof]

The attack pressed forward but on the left, 2 BMPs got confused and couldn't decide where to go, unscreened by the smoke ahead, they both got killed by the same BMP who then proceeded to kill all the dismounts who exited the vehicle. On the right, my tank deployed smoke in the wrong place but luckily no more shooting came from the right. Unfortunately, a BMP appeared from the front and killed one of mine.

Right, that's it. A pathfinding error kills at least half of my remaining infantry. I'll just have to put that one down to 'friction'. This attack has turned into a bit of a comedy of errors – absolutely nothing went as planned through a combination of Mikes willingness to put troops in harms way and sheer bad luck

[dan/california]

Things rarely get un(*^*%*% halfway through,I feel your pain.

[John Kettler]

hcrof,

Verily, that sucketh! Is there still time to turn this battle around, or was that your last hurrah?

Regards,

John Kettler

[snake_eye]

Hi Hcroft,

Remembering the map and the planned assault toward the bridge bypassing the Hillfarm, which I sent you earlier, I am wondering what could have gone wrong with it. It certainly would have provided its lot of surprises and you could have ended worst than what you are getting right now.

There is a saying overhere :

"The advisers are not the one paying the bill." "les conseillers ne sont pas les payeurs"

Do what you feel is right and keep on providing your excellent AAR.

Just a request : Reading it, I sometimes get mixed up about the troops side ! Could you identify them a bit better, since the very good shots are showing similar troops, tanks and tracks.

Cheers

[hcrof]

snake eye - after the game I will publish the map and you can look at it yourself. I personally feel that because Mikes defenders are highly mobile in their vehicles, they would be able to attack me from the flanks with your plan.

Also when I finish I will talk about lessons learned

[hcrof]

Watching the infantry struggle towards the farm, the tank commander made a decision. A BMP wasn't enough, the grunts needed something thicker skinned.

The tank crested the hill and immediately fired, sending HE into a building. Shooting stopped coming from it.

Give it another one!

As the loader slammed another shell in the breach, the commander looked to the left to see an ATGM streak past into the trees but he couldn't sit and watch.

HE up!

Fire!

The breach slammed back and a huge plume of dust added to the swirling smoke and fumes around the ruins of the farm.

Time to earn our pay boys, Forward!

My tank advances past the infantry after eliminating the HILLFARM defenders

My tank blasted away the last of the HILLFARM defenders and a lucky shot from my overwatching AT-4 has destroyed one of Mikes precious tanks! Mike might have rushed forward a fresh infantry platoon in their carriers but a hole has been torn in his defences – lets hope I have enough men to exploit it!

My left hand tanks will use the smoke to get into the trees and then they will attempt to roll up the flanks of the defence. Meanwhile, I will rush a rag tag bunch of infantry into what is left of HILLFARM to try and fend off Mikes counter attack!

[Moon]

My tank blasted away the last of the HILLFARM defenders and a lucky shot from my overwatching AT-4 has destroyed one of Mikes precious tanks!

I bet Mike is the one now sitting there watching the screen and saying "why me? why is it always me with the bad luck?!"

[hcrof]

lol, yeah you're probably right

I get emotional when my carefully constructed plans go wrong. I don't complain when I get a break!

I don't think I can win this now but hopefully I can at least give Mike a bloody nose!

[John Kettler]

hcrof,

So, you're hoping to go a bit Liddell Hart on him, are you? Hope you have enough left for that expanding torrent!

Regards,

John Kettler

[average]

Is pressing the counter-attack reinforcing failure ? At the moment, it doesn't appear your oppontent is fully comittted on the north flank, meaning that its not going to be decisive for him, but if you suffer sufficent losses, it will be for you.

It's not the sort of thing the Soviets would encourage. Tactically, it almost has a German feel to it in the pathalogical desire to counter-attack.

I don't want to be a downer, but it doesn't appear you achieved sufficent local superiority to be sure of success. Since you failed at first instance and are now pressing on its plainly evident what your intention is, which can't help because he can shift emphasis safe in teh knowledge your not going to hit him hard in the South.

As you said, Hillfarm is indefensible. Why not let him hold it and apply concentrated fires against it. Turn it into a meat grinder.

That is assuming you can break off now, which might not be so easy.

I would have thought your average Warsaw pact response would be to attempt to contain the breakthrough, cut off any further advance and try and manouvre against the southern flank aided by smoke and or short hop up the middle. You could then try and roll up his southern flank and force him to try and shift the wieght of his forces. That would offer some opportunities no doubt.

[hcrof]

I thought about this but realistically I had 2 options - press forward into a near suicidal attack or give up the whole battle. For entertainment purposes I chose the former, there is no reinforcement of failure because I have no reinforcements!

I will just have to claim there was a breakdown in communications

[snake_eye]

I thought about this but realistically I had 2 options - press forward into a near suicidal attack or give up the whole battle. For entertainment purposes I chose the former, there is no reinforcement of failure because I have no reinforcements!

I will just have to claim there was a breakdown in communications

Hi HCROF,

I have a white sheet that I could let you have at low price. Might be useful for surrendering !

More seriously, I wonder what I could have done to beat Mike and I don't have that many answers to my interrogations. The ground was on its side and besides a mass attack at the right point at the beginning (For that you would have had to be sure to know where he was massing its forces) the attackers were defeated time after time, since they used too few forces and moved too slowly, without sufficient artillery assets.

That is the way I saw the battle from the reports. Assuming, I got them right, which I am not certain; Let's call that Fog of war.

Took a lot of leasure reading the battle and I am a bit sad to see it finished.

It would be interesting to know what Mike wrote if he did it about the turns fought.

Cheers

[hcrof]

Right now I am thinking that I should have been more agressive from the start to seize and hold the north hill. I even said it was Mikes decisive point!

I will do a full debreif at the end but the battle isn't over yet!

John - what do you mean by Liddell Hart? Wikipedia didn't turn up much

[hcrof]

On the left, the remaining tanks began to move again, covered by smoke. Quickly they rushed up to the treeline, past some friendly infantry who where choking and spluttering on the fumes as they ran. There was noone there! Broken orders came over the radio, all troops were to support the attack on the farm!

The men at the outskirts of the farm watched the tank rev its engine and drive into the swirling smoke. Their way was clear and they vaulted the low stone wall as one, running towards the farm buildings.

Fire came from their right and one man fell but the rest rushed into cover and took positions near the windows. In front of them were a lot of enemies, perhaps a platoon or so, with their vehicles.

They let off a couple of bursts, hoping that their tracer would guide tank fire onto their target.

The massive crash of a tank gun the other side of the wall caused more dust to pour from the damaged ceiling but there was no explosion – it was shooting at other, unseen enemies.

Enemy tank!

The squat, wide shape of a T-62 was emerging from a cloud of white smoke ahead...

My tank supports its infantry in HILLFARM

My tanks on the left have managed to completely outflank Mikes troops! All I have to do is swing round and attack him from behind!

I have a BMP protecting my own flank but the real muscle will be provided by 2 tanks that will approach from the flank. They will hunt through the trees and attack Mikes tank and BMPs from behind Meanwhile I have a tank and some assorted infantry in HILLFARM itself, they will have to be careful though, Mikes tank could easily take them out right now.

In other news, there is movement in the south. Mike is probing again but he will have to hurry up because I have mortars beginning to zero in on his avenue of approach!

[flamingknives]

I would hazard that John's reference is to Liddel Hart's theories on warfare:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Basil_Liddell_Hart#Principles

[Lethaface]

Luckily your flanking move seem to come up successful, since it will mean the continuation of this aar for a little longer

[souldierz]

Keep swinging and if you go down, go down fighting while inflicting the most pain on Mike as possible(Nothing Personal against Mike:)).No retreat, no surrender, attack, attack, attack, aggressively and guns blazing.

The 1st true test of a commander, is how he reacts and gets out of bad situations,it's not about making the perfect plan, that's the 2nd test so he doesn't have to repeat the 1st.

Openings always emerge in one form or another and I'm sure the opponents plans are not playing out how he had intended either.A well placed monkey wrench can get you back in the fight.Remember, 10$ found on the ground can be turned to 20$, and then turned to 40$, then 80$ and so on until you own yourself a couple of cars and a big house on the hill.In other words what I'm trying to say, great gains can be achieved out of a low run down situation and makes it all the more sweeter when achieved.

We are cheering for you Hcrof(again nothing against Mike lol:)),make it Spartan.

How many tanks do both players still have? and can you give an overall casualty count of both players?

Loving the creativity in your typing.Cool stuff:cool:.

[hcrof]

Thanks for the support guys, I think I can give Mike a pretty bloody nose!

It seems he has got fixated on the farm which has allowed my flanking move

In the north Mike has at least 5 BMPs, 1 Tank and about 4 squads of infantry I think (plus assorted panicked squads and AT teams that may still be dangerous). Against that I have 3 tanks (4 if I can get my bailed out tank back in the action), 5 BMPs and a few MG teams/HQ squads.

In the south Mike probably has an Infantry company minus a platoon or two to defend the bridge and the town and a platoon of 3 tanks. I have an infantry company spread out in a dispersed defence in sector but missing most of an infantry platoon and some carriers.

Now that you have got me to spell it out I seem to be in not such a bad position, even though I have taken some horrific casualties in the north. Mike seems to be probing with one infantry platoon in the south and they are supported by Tanks and their organic carriers at least, maybe another infantry platoon at most. If I can ambush him and cause casualties I might attack but right now the force balence does not favour me I think.

Overall, I think I can regain HILLFARM with a bit of luck but I don't think I can take BRIDGE. The score will then rest on casualties and I think that Mike is winning on that front.