Apocalypse 31 Posted November 20, 2009 Share Posted November 20, 2009 Air Weapons Teams (Apaches, Cobra's, etc) Why are they so damn weak in game? I was playing Streets of Hama. Had some dismounts on a rooftop overlooking a stationary T90. No problemo! I have air! I call it in, and much to my surprise a few minutes later the Cobra gunship executes a strafing run...merely scratching the tank...hello? How about a damn HELLFIRE? or a strafe run with rockets? Weak! In real life these things are very capable tank killers. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomm Posted November 20, 2009 Share Posted November 20, 2009 Did the Cobra actually have missiles/rockets on board? I think the ammo bars should tell you this. Best regards, Thomm 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
c3k Posted November 20, 2009 Share Posted November 20, 2009 Of the four ammo bars, which of the 40mm grenade icons represent Heavy, Medium, or Light? Oh, did someone just mention "User Interface"? Ken 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Field Marshal Blücher Posted November 20, 2009 Share Posted November 20, 2009 Yep, this sounds like the Cobra support only had cannons. In most cases, when they are equipped with ATGMs, they are EXTREMELY capable tank killers. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chops Posted November 20, 2009 Share Posted November 20, 2009 Cpl. Mike, The following is from the CMSF Game Manual v. 1.20: There is certainly room for improvement in the UI for Air/Artillery Assets and the information that is made available to the player. There are some lengthy discussions on this topic in this forum. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pvt. Ryan Posted November 20, 2009 Share Posted November 20, 2009 I think BFC's explanation for the lack of info on the aircraft loadout is that the men on the ground wouldn't know what the available aircraft are carrying. I don't know if that is true or a justification. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GSX Posted November 20, 2009 Share Posted November 20, 2009 I think BFC's explanation for the lack of info on the aircraft loadout is that the men on the ground wouldn't know what the available aircraft are carrying. I don't know if that is true or a justification. All i know is that in real life the aircraft commander is required to give the JTAC/FAC details of what ordanance hes carrying. For obvious reasons, different weapons have a different safety distance from your own men. So if your 100 meters away and hes dropping a 1000lb bomb, it may not be the wisest of options. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Battlefront.com Posted November 20, 2009 Share Posted November 20, 2009 Cpl. Mike Hehe... CPT Mike was just getting used to a promotion and Chops cuts him down Seriously, it does sound like the air support was kitted out for anti-infantry and not anti-armor. Chops has pointed out the correct part of the manual where this is explained. Yes, we know the little icons aren't very helpful. One of these days we'll actually get around to fixing that. Agree with GSX... while the user shouldn't have control over the ordinance used, he should be aware of what is being carried. Steve 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YankeeDog Posted November 20, 2009 Share Posted November 20, 2009 Yeah, some UI improvement is sorely needed here. It's really wierd when you call a "Heavy" strike mission, and all you see are a few spits of cannon fire. If that's all that's available, fine. But I would think that this would be communicated to the ground commander. While we're on the subject of improving the CAS interface: I'd REALLY like there to be some advance warning of what the attack bearing is for CAS. Especially for the Hydra-70s, the range dispersion is much worse than the bearing dispersion, so knowing where on the compass the rockets are coming from is critical -- I've Had Strykers KOed several hundred meters off of the aim point, because I guessed that the attack bearing would be one way, and it turned out to be another. I'm not asking to be able to actually set the attack bearing myself -- AIUI, this is not necessarily something that a ground commander would have control over (though he might have input). But it is my understanding that the ground commander is usually aware of the attack bearing for CAS, especially for types of ordnance like unguided rockets that are much more likely to err long or short, than left or right. Given that the last module for CMSF is coming out soon, I expect that I'm unlikely to see this until the next CMx2 modern setting game, but I'd really like to see it at some point. Cheers, YD 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkEzra Posted November 20, 2009 Share Posted November 20, 2009 Air Weapons Teams (Apaches, Cobra's, etc) Why are they so damn weak in game? I was playing Streets of Hama. Had some dismounts on a rooftop overlooking a stationary T90. No problemo! I have air! I call it in, and much to my surprise a few minutes later the Cobra gunship executes a strafing run...merely scratching the tank...hello? How about a damn HELLFIRE? or a strafe run with rockets? Weak! In real life these things are very capable tank killers. When Loaded for anti tank they certainly are...in the game as well as life. But you see the SOB Scen designer purposefully chose Helos w/ ground attack package to simulate their over-stretched tactical use during the USMC Mad rush inland. So let me pose the question to you: your JAC describes the targets...Enemy Armor. Air arm responds with "I can do one of two things: Send Helos without AT in 10 minutes or Helos with AT in 50 minutes" and you decide what? I try to design scen that force the player to make tough decisions under pressure of time and asset limitations 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryujin Posted November 20, 2009 Share Posted November 20, 2009 The JTAC or whoever does also give heading from the IP/designate the BP. So we certainly should be able to set up the heading when calling for CAS. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YankeeDog Posted November 20, 2009 Share Posted November 20, 2009 Yeah, I know the JTAC sets the run-in/run-out. But from a game perspective, the decision as to heading and general attack path is often affected by considerations that are off the CM battle map -- terrain, weather, AA threat, deconflicting with other aircraft and/or artillery shoots in the area, etc. So it's not necessarily realistic to just allow the player to set the attack heading to whatever he wants it to be. In and ideal world, the game would simulate all of the above stuff, but that's not going to happen unless BFC gets a military contract to fund a a couple of assistant coders for Charles. Like I said, I'm fine with not being able to control the attack heading. I just would like to know what it is so I don't park my vehicles in a direct line with a Hydra strike. I swear Strkyers must have some kind of rocket-attracting beacon... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dietrich Posted November 20, 2009 Share Posted November 20, 2009 While I agree with the calls for a more explanatory UI, and while I like the idea of being able to specify the CAS attack direction (though I see the reasonableness in seeing why that isn't practical in the game), neither of these seem all that significant when compared to how I continue to have the experience of aircraft (specifically fast-movers with JDAMs and/or missiles) "attacking" but dropping no bombs. When a fast-mover attacks but deploys no ordinance and the corresponding ammo counter goes down one notch, what is this supposed to simulate? A dud bomb? Malfunctioning hardpoints? If the "attack" with no deploying of ordinance is supposed to simulate a dry run or a scrubbed run, why does the available ammo decrease? I understand that in some situations (like when you call a Harrier for a Heavy CAS mission on an area in which the JTAC has spotted no enemy units but in which you suspect there may be an MBT/AFV), the air asset doesn't spot anything and thus doesn't have anything to attack. And yes, most of the time my fast-movers make me duly thankful I have them on call. And I don't mind a scrubbed run or a dud bomb now and then. I would just like some elucidation on the matter. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LukeFF Posted November 21, 2009 Share Posted November 21, 2009 I think BFC's explanation for the lack of info on the aircraft loadout is that the men on the ground wouldn't know what the available aircraft are carrying. I don't know if that is true or a justification. They will know: AIRCRAFT CHECK-IN Definition. Information given to the ground commander by an AH-64 attack team or OH58D via radio when entering that commander's AOR. Aircraft will send the following: 1. AIRCRAFT LOCATION/CALL SIGN 2. NUMBER AND TYPE OF AIRCRAFT 3. TYPE OF AMMUNITION ON BOARD 4. STATION TIME (From a pamphlet issued to me while I was in Iraq back in '04). 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pvt. Ryan Posted November 21, 2009 Share Posted November 21, 2009 Then I guess BFC are just bastards. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wildman Posted November 21, 2009 Share Posted November 21, 2009 Or its a UI thing they can't fix with the existing system and its getting reworked for NOrmandy....or you could be an ungratful wretch bound to find all that is bad in the world. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lethaface Posted November 21, 2009 Share Posted November 21, 2009 [...] Agree with GSX... while the user shouldn't have control over the ordinance used, he should be aware of what is being carried. Steve I think Steve was quite clear in his remarks. They want to let the user know WHAT the air assets are carrying. I think the only reason for the current situation is 'priorities'. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeyD Posted November 21, 2009 Share Posted November 21, 2009 I'd like to say this isn't a game limitation but a scenario designer oversight - he should've given more info in the orders screen. BUT -if you look in the editor you get aircraft selections as either 'air Support' or 'anti-tank', and as 'Light' 'Medium' or 'Heavy', in each the aircraft platforms. The designer can make an educated guess on what a "Air Support / Light / Kiowa" will deliver in-game, but it'll only be a guess. Perhaps a chart showing weapons loadouts in the manual is problematic due to some random variability built in. One day the aircraft carries eight bombs, the next day seven. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lomir Posted November 21, 2009 Share Posted November 21, 2009 Hi all, Hope this help Cheers, Lomir 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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