Sergei Posted October 27, 2009 Share Posted October 27, 2009 At 2km you use the missile, silly. BMP still wins the day. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sergei Posted October 27, 2009 Share Posted October 27, 2009 Except looks. The coolness factor of a PzKfw VI far exceeds that of a T54. Regards KR. That's if you like boxes on tracks like Abrams, Leopard or Challenger. I think they're just ugly. VIb looks a lot cooler than VIe. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YankeeDog Posted October 27, 2009 Share Posted October 27, 2009 It actually uses the same warhead as the SPG-9, and is supposedly accurate on point targets such as another AFV out to somewhere between 500-700m, depending on which source you look at. But for longer ranges, the BMP-1 carries the AT-3, useful out to 3km... Also, keep in mind that the BMP-1 has a much smaller frontal aspect than the Tiger -- the Tiger is a full meter taller than the BMP-1 and also about half a meter wider. So in a head-to-head fight, any accuracy advantage the Tiger has is partially offset by the fact that it is a much larger target. Smaller profile also means that the BMP is more likely to spot the Tiger first. And the BMP as much higher speed and maneuverability, so it can scoot to cover faster, use its lower height to find defilade where the Tiger can't, etc. And here are other indirect factors that advantage the BMP as well. For example, it has much lower ground pressure and is calm-water amphibious, so it can go places the Tiger simply can't go, and so seek to engage the Tiger on the most advantageous terms possible. Overall, I give the BMP the advantage in almost every kind of fight except perhaps a very open terrain fight in the 1.5-2.5km range. The AT-3 would certainly blow a Tiger apart, but it's not a very accurate weapons system, and has a very long reload time. At longer range, the Tiger may not hit a small target like the BMP-1 on the first shot, either, but if it misses, it can get off shot #2 (and #3, and #4...) long before the BMP can either (a) reload the AT-3 launcher, or ( get close enough to use the 73mm gun. But add some some terrain features so the BMP can gain cover while closing the range, and/or shoot-and-scoot locations so that the BMP can pop up, shoot a missile and then break LOS to reload, and the Tiger is in trouble. Even more so if you allow the BMP advantage of using its embarked infantry to scout ahead and spot the Tiger first... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sergei Posted October 27, 2009 Share Posted October 27, 2009 Tiger's best bet would be to choose engagement ranges where it has reasonable chances of first shoot kill and the BMP's missile needs some time to fly to target. Even if the Tiger missed the small target, there is some hope that the missile gunner's aim goes off and the missile is lost. The problem is that Tiger being less mobile can do very little to dictate the terms of battle. And if the terrain offers any good cover, the BMP can just maneuver around it and hit the back of its turret, in the good old Stuart/Sherman fashion... A Bradley vs. Tiger setup would be even more decisively against Tiger. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomm Posted October 27, 2009 Share Posted October 27, 2009 I cannot believe you guys are seriously discussing this. I conclude that there is dire need for a new bone!! Best regards, Thomm 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Emrys Posted October 27, 2009 Share Posted October 27, 2009 I cannot believe you guys are seriously discussing this. I conclude that there is dire need for a new bone!! Good observation. Next they'll be arguing over which vehicle had the best power ups. Michael 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lethaface Posted October 27, 2009 Share Posted October 27, 2009 How about a (late) Panther vs a BMP-1 or even bmp-2? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YankeeDog Posted October 27, 2009 Share Posted October 27, 2009 Yeah, it's ultimately a pointless discussion. But I've got nothing better to argue about until we get something more meaty to chew on, so bring on the dippy fantasy matchups! I don't see BMP-1 vs. Panther as being much different than BMP-1 vs. Tiger. The Panther would probably fare a little better than the Tiger, but it's still bigger, slower, and less maneuverable than the BMP. Except for a fight occurring with the tanks opposite ends of a giant pool table, the BMP-1 still wins significantly more often than it loses in my book. BMP-2 vs. any WWII tank is no contest -- In addition to the mobility advantages, the BMP-2 carries the AT-5, which is far more accurate and responsive than the AT-3. The chances of any WWII tank getting an accurate main gun shot off before the missile hits are very low. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonS Posted October 27, 2009 Share Posted October 27, 2009 I assume you mean it's firing HC? In the AT role it only fires HEAT. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wengart Posted November 1, 2009 Share Posted November 1, 2009 I didn't feel like starting a new thread for this, but does anyone know if CM:N will have under strength squads, or the ability to make reduced strength squads in the editor? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smaragdadler Posted November 1, 2009 Share Posted November 1, 2009 [...]You can test it out yourself - put T-55s verses BMP-1.[...] Best mobile T-55 in game now is T-55-1974 which has an upgraded 100mm tank gun with laser range finder. That's why I lobby for implementation of at least a mobile version of the T-55-1970 with only a gyro-stabilized tank gun as a 'low tech' alternative. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GSX Posted November 3, 2009 Share Posted November 3, 2009 As its now November 2009 and CM-Normandy was/is/could be supposedly ready before the Christmas holidays is it time for some more detail about it? So far, theres been a Tiger and some US vehicles as screenshots and a few words about how bridges will be modelled. Any chance of A. A little bit more information on how the game will look. B. A wee bit more information on how the game will differ from CMSF (apart from the obvious). C. Perhaps its own forum now that we are fast approaching launch day? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nicdain Posted November 3, 2009 Share Posted November 3, 2009 As its now November 2009 and CM-Normandy was/is/could be supposedly ready before the Christmas holidays is it time for some more detail about it? So far, theres been a Tiger and some US vehicles as screenshots and a few words about how bridges will be modelled. Any chance of A. A little bit more information on how the game will look. B. A wee bit more information on how the game will differ from CMSF (apart from the obvious). C. Perhaps its own forum now that we are fast approaching launch day? I second these requests 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elmar Bijlsma Posted November 3, 2009 Share Posted November 3, 2009 I oppose them. Just because I can. And CMN has been announced to just miss the holiday period and is set for very early 2010. However, we've seen so little of it, and Steve recently gave indications that what seems to me like essential things are yet to be coded (designed even!) that I'm sceptical we'll be seeing it any earlier then spring. Then again, the Brain In A Jar is pretty awesome and might well surprise me. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Battlefront.com Posted November 3, 2009 Share Posted November 3, 2009 The primary problem with SHOWING you guys stuff is that we have not prioritized the artwork for the terrain or soldier textures. There are plenty of vehicles to show off, but not more than initial test examples of the other stuff. We're trying to concentrate on the features rather than the brute force grunt work that is needed to make the game complete. The design and initial implementation stuff doesn't do well in screenshots That being said, I'll see what I can do to get you guys to stop talking nonsense about BMP-1s going up against Panthers Steve 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheVulture Posted November 3, 2009 Share Posted November 3, 2009 The primary problem with SHOWING you guys stuff is that we have not prioritized the artwork for the terrain or soldier textures. There are plenty of vehicles to show off, but not more than initial test examples of the other stuff. We're trying to concentrate on the features rather than the brute force grunt work that is needed to make the game complete. The design and initial implementation stuff doesn't do well in screenshots That being said, I'll see what I can do to get you guys to stop talking nonsense about BMP-1s going up against Panthers Steve Entirely innocent question: how much work would it be for you guys to knock up a screenshot of a BMP-1 and a panther or tiger? Or even a quick, internal use only scenario? <runs for cover> 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sergei Posted November 3, 2009 Share Posted November 3, 2009 Okay, but only this time... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Emrys Posted November 4, 2009 Share Posted November 4, 2009 That being said, I'll see what I can do to get you guys to stop talking nonsense about BMP-1s going up against Panthers Yeah, you know they're really going bonkers when they get to that stuff. That's like drinking shoe polish at the end of a long party weekend. Michael 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
costard Posted November 4, 2009 Share Posted November 4, 2009 I didn't feel like starting a new thread for this, but does anyone know if CM:N will have under strength squads, or the ability to make reduced strength squads in the editor? Damn fine question. Any info on this one? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Battlefront.com Posted November 4, 2009 Share Posted November 4, 2009 TheVulture, how much work would it be for you guys to knock up a screenshot of a BMP-1 and a panther or tiger? Or even a quick, internal use only scenario? Heh... well, I'm sure it is within Charles' power to make such a thing happen. But not even the testers get to play around with such stuff since the databases used for CM:SF and Normandy are not inherently compatible. Meaning, either the BMP-1 would have to be converted to run in Normandy or the Panther would have to be converted to work in CM:SF. Depleted unit function is on our top ToDo List. Steve 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeyD Posted November 4, 2009 Share Posted November 4, 2009 Unretouched photo: 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomm Posted November 4, 2009 Share Posted November 4, 2009 You guys know how to photoshop, I give you that! Best regards, Thomm 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GSX Posted November 4, 2009 Share Posted November 4, 2009 The primary problem with SHOWING you guys stuff is that we have not prioritized the artwork for the terrain or soldier textures. There are plenty of vehicles to show off, but not more than initial test examples of the other stuff. We're trying to concentrate on the features rather than the brute force grunt work that is needed to make the game complete. The design and initial implementation stuff doesn't do well in screenshots That being said, I'll see what I can do to get you guys to stop talking nonsense about BMP-1s going up against Panthers Steve OK, please dont take this the wrong way. You originally stated that the game would definitely be out in 2009. I understand these things change so this doesnt bother me. However, you changed this to say that the game could be out by Xmas 2009 but that this would be the wrong time to publish it for you. Understandable given the time of year and all. I would imagine that a game that is what, 7 or 8 weeks away from being able to be published would be at the almost ready stage, possibly just going through the campaign testing etc. So given what youve already said above, and what you said before it seems that the game is far from being ready to roll by Xmas. So, can you please answer these question so that I can go back to lurking on CMN. Will this game be ready before 01 Apr 10? Has the campaign etc been tested or is it in testing yet? There are plenty of other ways I can spend my time before a Normandy game comes out but as you were the one promising definites I wouldnt mind a straight answer. If the answer is 'we wont be publishing before Summer 10' then Im a big lad and can take it. Cheers 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
c3k Posted November 4, 2009 Share Posted November 4, 2009 Unretouched photo: Hey, has anyone else noticed that BF.C will keep with tradition and make CM:N a BLACK & WHITE game??? I bet the next module will be "Combat Mission: Technicolor". Yep. A module to play in color... Cool Picture. Thanks. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cambronne Posted November 4, 2009 Share Posted November 4, 2009 There are plenty of vehicles to show off, but not more than initial test examples of the other stuff. Steve I thought the work was almost done! What should we understand from your post above? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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