MrSpkr Posted February 16, 2009 Share Posted February 16, 2009 In the old CM modules, I seem to remember that you could click on the map and learn the type of terrain present at that particular spot. I also seem to remember that you could get the same information from the unit interface. I can't find these features in CMSF. Can anyone tell me how to get that information (or if these features still exist)? Alternatively, is there a "cheat sheet" I can download that has a terrain key for reference during game play? Steve 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sergei Posted February 16, 2009 Share Posted February 16, 2009 It's different in CMx2, as you can have a multitude of terrain (like trees, bushes and mud) in the same tile, and an infantry squad could be spread out over two or three tiles. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrSpkr Posted February 16, 2009 Author Share Posted February 16, 2009 Understood, Sergei. I guess it would be nice, though, to be able to spot click on the map to see what the prevalent terrain type is at a given location. For example, in the Marines campaign, fourth scenario (I think), there are fields on either side of a paved road. Some are green, most likely wheat of some sort. Some are tan, some are mottled, some brown. It would be nice to be able to tell, at a click, which areas represent muddy or marshy ground as opposed to rocky or dirt areas. I'd rather not learn how soft the ground is by driving on it. Steve 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Apocal Posted February 16, 2009 Share Posted February 16, 2009 The muddy terrain looks like mud... the marsh looks like marsh? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moon Posted February 16, 2009 Share Posted February 16, 2009 Another thing is this: in CMx1, the terrain you're IN gives your unit cover and concealment. Abstracted values are used. In CMx2, that's not the case. There is no cover and concealment value for terrain you're IN, at all. What counts is what lies between you and the observer/shooter, not what you're IN. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Secondbrooks Posted February 16, 2009 Share Posted February 16, 2009 There should/might/could be something done to wooded spots. Right now it's constant trees on/off/on/off/on/off/..[rinse and repeat]..on/off/on/off/on/off/-toggling, which ain't too much funny. I deeply fell in love how CMx1 did this, coloring those areas with different color. I'm still amused how well it worked (and could toggle trees to spare or off), and how it's left out from CMx2. Surely this can't be technically impossible. Just one generic color, borderline or something to make clear that "Aha! There we have some trees" (bushes might have different color code... or same). If player is more interested of types of trees and their density he could zoom in and check. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thewood Posted February 16, 2009 Share Posted February 16, 2009 Another thing is this: in CMx1, the terrain you're IN gives your unit cover and concealment. Abstracted values are used. In CMx2, that's not the case. There is no cover and concealment value for terrain you're IN, at all. What counts is what lies between you and the observer/shooter, not what you're IN. I thought Steve previously said that there is some abstraction for cover in terrain. It was in the long "Adam" thread about cover. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomm Posted February 16, 2009 Share Posted February 16, 2009 There should/might/could be something done to wooded spots. Right now it's constant trees on/off/on/off/on/off/..[rinse and repeat]..on/off/on/off/on/off/-toggling, which ain't too much funny. I suggested looong ago to pick up the Squad Assault system as one option, meaning that close trees are rendered without leaves to ease spotting of units and far trees are rendered with foliage to indicate LOS obstacles. Still seems like a good concept to me. Best regards, Thomm 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Other Means Posted February 16, 2009 Share Posted February 16, 2009 I thought Steve previously said that there is some abstraction for cover in terrain. It was in the long "Adam" thread about cover. That's what I remember. I think it's *within and action spot* the cover of trees seen etc is shared amongst the soldiers or sumfink. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Battlefront.com Posted February 17, 2009 Share Posted February 17, 2009 I'm not quite sure what Martin was trying to get at, but as stated what he said is not correct. Of course the terrain your guys are currently in matters If you're dudes are out in the middle of a road vs. in brush, of course you have better concealment in the latter than the former, even if cover isn't all that much better (remember that cover and concealment are two entirely different concepts). Even in CMx1 intervening terrain had an impact on the quality of LOS/LOF (they were one in the same back then). It was fairly simplistic and greatly abstracted compared to CMx2, but definitely there. In CMx2 intervening terrain is even more important because it's far more varied and relevant, especially because LOS and LOF are separate concepts now (i.e. you can see something but still have your shot blocked from getting there). CMx2 expands the quantity of possible terrain types in total, but also in terms of what is present within an 8x8m spot (which is, roughly, 1/4th the size of CMx1's smallest terrain element). That really enriches the overall simulation and game experience, but it does have the drawback of not being so neatly boiled down like CMx1. In other words, the CMx1 system was so limited and abstract that we could display information which was relevant fairly easily. With CMx2 the opposite is true. For example, a Squad with 3 Teams can have each Team in an entirely different environment. So it's actually physically impossible for us to display the terrain the Squad is in. Best we could do is show what terrain each Team is in, but that would have to be done simultaneously. That in turn takes up quite a lot of screen space, which we don't think is a good idea. Even if we did have a graphical display of some sort, it wouldn't be easy for us to make. It would have to be assembled on the fly because there are too many permutations to have preassembled pictures like we had in CMx1. And that also introduces problems in terms of how we assemble them so that they don't look like a jumbled mess. A text based description of terrain found under the cursor isn't easy to do because of the 3D nature of the game. But we rejected that ages ago as being inadequate and, therefore, not worth the development effort. Steve 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bodkin Posted February 17, 2009 Share Posted February 17, 2009 I suggested looong ago to pick up the Squad Assault system as one option, meaning that close trees are rendered without leaves to ease spotting of units and far trees are rendered with foliage to indicate LOS obstacles. Still seems like a good concept to me. Best regards, Thomm I've previously suggested a system like in TC 2nd Manassas, where the trees close to your forces become transparent or ghost like for better viewing. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darkmage Posted February 17, 2009 Share Posted February 17, 2009 is there a way to toggle off trees that I've just missed? :/ 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomm Posted February 17, 2009 Share Posted February 17, 2009 is there a way to toggle off trees that I've just missed? :/ Should be [Alt] - [T]. Best regards, Thomm 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darkmage Posted February 17, 2009 Share Posted February 17, 2009 cheers! I don't usually need it when playing the typical desert, MOUT scenarios, but I struggle sometimes when a couple of woods get thrown in. I guess this will be needed more when normandy etc comes out. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Battlefront.com Posted February 17, 2009 Share Posted February 17, 2009 As part of the move to a temperate environment we are looking at some specific options that should allow leaves to be removed without losing the sense of where the forest is even at a distance. This is a bit of a problem right now because the underlying terrain is what it is, and not specific to trees being on top. This is unlike CMx1 where the underlying color of the tile was tied to trees directly. With trees removed you could still tell there was a forest there because of the underlying tile. We're not going to go with something exactly like that, since it is inherently contrary to the CMx2 ability to mix and match terrain, but we have some ideas of how we can address the core issue. Steve 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Secondbrooks Posted February 17, 2009 Share Posted February 17, 2009 Good to hear. Thanks 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saunders1953 Posted February 17, 2009 Share Posted February 17, 2009 Hey Battlefront/Steve/Moon/Whoever....that's what I like about you guys, you're always willing to look at a solutions to a problem. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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