An introduction and a few questions

[Rafik63]

Hey guys,

Just thought I'd introduce myself onto the forums and what not. My name is salam(I'll explain about the name if anyone asks) , not been playing CMSF too long but keen to pick up what i can. It does have a very steep learning curve compared with the more "typical" strategy games that I'm used to playing. I suppose thats one of the reasons why i've joined the forum though.

I was wondering, is there any reading or training scenario that you'd recommend? Any general tips wouldn't go amiss. I'll shut up now anyways, I've said my piece. Hope to hear to from you soon gents.

Regards

Salam

[Homo ferricus]

I know that there used to be a lot of sticky threads with all sorts of reading on fallujah and strykers and whatnot in them, maybe you can give it a search, I'm not the best source here on those kind of materials. In any case, Welcome!

for searches, just hit the search button on that black bar (yellow letters) at the top of the forum. If you type in something like "infantry tactics", "armor strategy", or "urban doctrine" etc. etc. your bound to find plenty of stuff; everything from articles or manuals published by all sorts of world military organizations, past and present, to long opinionated (but very informative and interesting) pieces done by military-savvy people here who are familiar with CM, as well as combat veterans.

And for the record, you are probably about to get clobbered with piles of sources, so don't worry.

[Other Means]

Salem is always welcome

To be honest I'd just look for small scenarios on one of the forums. CMMODS is an excellent one. You have to register but it's free and COG who runs it won't sell your details on.

Byte Battles are small but very intense. Designed mainly for 2 player as well.

Honestly - most games vs the AI are training games. Playing another person is when it comes into its own.

[Delta228]

Welcome

I had the same problem when I first started. CMSF is a very unforgiving game, and that turns alot of people off to it. Forget to put down supressing fire and that infantry squad can become a heaping pile of bleeding men.

I don't know of any true "training" scenarios, but there are a few things I do (did) to understand the game better. The obvious one (sorry, it isn't much help), but just play as many scenarios as you can. Practice makes perfect, and you will quickly find out what works and what doesn't.

Second, and this may seem over the top, but pick up some books on modern military tactics. CMSF is a true military simulation, and the real world tactics WILL work in the game.

Sorry I can't be much more help than that, but good luck and have fun.

[Rafik63]

Hmm sounds interesting, would you recommend reading US Military field manuals? Just been doing some reading on them from wiki..... And not to be pedantic but its Salam (as in the arabic name "salam") not salem.

Cheers lads hopefully this reading and hammering the campaign through will iron out some creases.

Regards

Salam

[purpheart23]

Al Huqf is a good scenario to train yourself on. Small, easily managed for a beginner.

[cmfan]

Check out the tactics forum for some useful threads. The equipment thread is slowly building an interesting repository of information.

Once you figure out how to use the scenario editor, download NormalDudes firing range maps. You can test out equipment on them to get a sense of how it works without battlefield distractions.

PM me if you have any specific questions. I'm not an expert scenario designer or player, but I've extensively played the other CM titles and have some military experience so I can probably explain a few things.

[Battlefront.com]

Welcome!

I'll not repeat what others have said since it's all good stuff. Playing with an eye towards learning, rather than winning, is a great way to go about things. Unlike video games of old, you don't have to keep plugging in quarters each time you play

When playing try to be deliberate about what you are doing and gauge how well it works. For example, when you identify an enemy machinegun that is hammering away at some of your guys, think to yourself "what is the best thing to do... wait it out, move back, move forward, return fire, move in other forces, etc.?" When you pick what you think is a good idea, then think to yourself "what is it I am trying to do and what are my best options to do it?" At this point you have your plan and now it's a matter of executing it. Pay close attention to what goes right and what goes wrong, then try to figure out why things went one way or another.

If you have this sort of mindset while playing you'll find the learning curve may be steep, but that you'll learn a ton of stuff really fast. Getting things to the next level will take a much longer time. Which is what wargamers generally love about CM... just when you think you've mastered it you get your ass whooped Compare this to other types of games where once you figured out a few things victory is almost routine.

Oh, and I highly recommend starting out playing turn based (WeGo). Two reasons... the first is that you can ensure that time pressure and interaction with the UI isn't a significant issue. Second, the replays are extremely valuable when trying to learn how things work. You can focus on a small segment of the overall battle and watch it several times until you feel that you've learned all there is to learn from that bit of the battle. In RealTime you might miss it completely, especially if you don't know what you're looking for.

Oh, and always remember the old saying that it's not if you win or lose that's important, it's how well you play the game that matters. Focus on the latter and don't worry about getting beat in the process. Nobody's looking over your shoulder and grading you.

Steve

[purpheart23]

"Nobody's looking over your shoulder and grading you."

Speak for your self Steve. Rafik I'll be expecting your post battle report on my desk no later than 0900 tomorrow morning.

[Other Means]

You may find my hotkeys more intuitive. See the sticky at the top of the forum.

[Smaragdadler]

Read After Action Reports (AARs)!

[MarkEzra]

Welcome aboard...You won't need to read a thing...you'll never need to buy a book....Just post your question and the Grogs here will do the rest. They've bought all the books and can always quote them Chapter-page-and text... of course when the fight breaks out regarding the accuracy of one author over another, things might get a bit confusing. LOL....There is a Tactics forum

http://www.battlefront.com/community/forumdisplay.php?f=69 and several players have devoted a lot of time to help players new to wargaming...Glad to have you on the forum

[theFightingSeabee]

Salam,

The best advice I can give is to play as though those little guys are YOUR men. You don't want to be writing letters to anyones family about how good of a guy they were.

There are many ways to skin a cat... so you don't really have to follow any particular gameplan except your own. Think of it as a complex chess game.

Go slow. Human waves will only get your guys killed. Try to advance in groups, keeping some guys available to cover. When the moving group gets to their destinations, then the covering group can move up.

Your tanks aren't invincible. Don't rush them up. Use them as support when needed if possible.

Try not to expose flanks.

Learn to use the movement commands. They are very useful for different situations.

Just play! Luckily, these aren't real lives your leading into combat, so you can learn valuable lessons and start over at any time.

Keep playing and you'll be a bonafied tactitian in no time!

[Pandur]

just my 2 cent;

if you are new to all this dont go for the "realworld tactics"->"game tactics"(like reading a book to understand how to play ) stuff. go the other way round, it would take ages and wont work too good anyways couse of game specifics.

best for training in my view are quick battles...(dont play red in the beginning if blue is involved ).

there is one reason for that, if your a person(like me) wich does not like to start a battle, and pour time and heart into it but your sure you loose it anyway couse you suck, dont do it, play quick battles and "just do it" without "ingame consequences" like messed up end mission screen(how i hate those...).

quick battle option is the tryout area for me.

steep learning curve also means much learned after a short way of the curve. i mean it will take a few quickbattles and you see whats it about in the game.

look through the forums, "everything" you need to know to play the game in a verry good way is in the forums, you dont need any book for that. also you got it presented in a way it works in the "game", how it works in reality is nearly useless in detail, for the game.

i hope that helped somehow and saved you some days reading though field manuals and books and pages in the net and what not... . the interesst in that will come by itself when you are compftable with the game and maybe not satisfied with the heaps of info found here in the forums.

i think that would be best for a beginner.

have fun!

[Combatintman]

Just play and don't sweat about winning or losing - start slow and build up. So do all of the scenarios first before touching the campaign and start with wego basic training and move up from there. I've been playing this game for a year and have only just moved up to real time and veteran and haven't finished the campaign yet (some of this is due to system specs). I've enjoyed every minute - having recently moved to real time (now I have a decent system) and patched to V1.10 this game rocks and when I get beat I'm totally over it.

Wego is good to start with though because you can replay and analyse what went right and wrong.

Welcome and happy New Year.

[Cpl Steiner]

Rafik63,

Welcome aboard!

Whilst I can't claim to be an expert at this game compared to some of the others, I can give you what little I've learned whilst playing.

Anti-Tank Guided Missiles (ATGMs) are to be truly feared. Advancing armour into territory not thoroughly sterilised of these weapons is a recipe for disaster, so send your infantry forward first. Scout and Sniper teams should get as far forward as possible before the main attack rolls in, to spot those ATGM launchers. If you do have to use armour in a leading role, pop up over a ridge and then immediately reverse back behind it. With luck, the vehicle will be exposed just long enough for an ATGM launcher to fire and reveal it's position but not long enough for the missile to reach the vehicle and destroy it.

Once spotted, destroy those ATGM teams with anti-personnel (air bursting) artillery strikes - don't try to engage them directly with your armour.

After destroying as many ATGMs are possible, Humvees are useful "disposable" vehicles to push forward with if you need to see if any ATGMs are left. The idea is to send them first in case any ATGMs remain undetected.

Happy gaming!

[PSY]

If you do have to use armour in a leading role, pop up over a ridge and then immediately reverse back behind it. With luck, the vehicle will be exposed just long enough for an ATGM launcher to fire and reveal it's position but not long enough for the missile to reach the vehicle and destroy it.

Steiner, how would you do this in turn-based mode? Would you do something like a quick forward, followed by a 15 second pause at the ridgeline, followed by a reverse? Or is this maneuver mostly only doable in real-time mode?

[Webwing]

Salam,

Welcome!

You better hurry up and learn about all the equipment in the game. The Brits are coming and you will soon have loads more to learn!

-

[Other Means]

Steiner, how would you do this in turn-based mode? Would you do something like a quick forward, followed by a 15 second pause at the ridgeline, followed by a reverse? Or is this maneuver mostly only doable in real-time mode?

I always "fast" some light *cough expendable* armour to an exposed position, with an FO etc close to knock out what's found.

The waypoint goes straight up the hill - then reverse straight back so there's no turning. Select the waypoint at the top and give it a 5sec pause order. You can stack many orders on waypoints, like targeting, covered arc, deploy etc. Just pause in this case.

If it doesn't work - send it back with a longer pause.

Remember: if it don't brew - try number two.

[Rafik63]

Just a quick update guys,

I've plowed through the first two missions on campaign (basic training mind you, but hey i gotta start somewhere) I've started getting the hang of things i.e letting the artillery do the risky work for the infantry and using tanks WITH support rather than some invincible piece of metal that uber pwnnwnnn1112111!!! syria in the blink of an eye. *ahem.

As in all conflict, i've taken casualties. I'll list them so far:

Mission One :1 man killed, 4 men wounded

Mission Two : 14 men killed, 26 wounded (* will explain in a second)

*Well I'll explain what happened in the second mission....

I was tasked with taking an abandoned airbase, occupied by irregular fighters and syrian special forces(I'll get to those guys in a second). I opted to go around the back, rather than assault the front entrance and proceeded with 1 humvee (sniper team) 4 strkyers (2 Inf sqd , command + 2 mg squads and a 105mm gun armed variant).

Now everyone gets about half way until a cheeky little sharmuta (arabic for prostitute) decides to fire his rpg 7 at the lead stryker.

He misses, I call the 105mm to a halt and have him fire a few round onto the roof of the control tower Abd'allah ya sooryi fired from. Poor old abd'allah screams drops his rpg and dies on the roof. I make it to the compound wall. I move the 105mm into a decent postition as to cover the storming of the control tower which i decided was a nice place for my FO and Sniper team to take residence. Clearly i wanted these guys to be safe, so i sent in one infantry squad to cover furthermore while the other assaults the building.

Heres where it all goes wrong.....

The squad that is covering the assualt and the 105mm start engaging hostiles anywhere from around 300m to 1km away (the 105mm taking more of the latter.) Fine and dandy. I pop some smoke from the transport strykers (which are also laying some cover and supressive fire) and out pops the door and in go the first fire team of the infantry while the other holds. They get to the door.....Then BOOM horrendous explosion ensues and kills 5 infantrymen from the assaulting squad. After that initial loss everything goes smoothly; I recover and with a foothold established begin ferrying in the remainder of the troops which are still in the deployment zone.

FO's take position as well as sniper team, command and the two MG's (the building had 8 floors and the surrounding area was fairly clear, why not eh?) I won't bore you with the rest but safe to say....syrian special forces.... those guys arn't pushovers like the fedayeen that were surrounding them.

A few questions:

What in Gods name killed my 5 guys in the doorway of the control tower?

(Btw, there was no tracer fire or report fire...absolutely nothing to indicate a round of ANYTHING came into the doorway)

The apache (i had two in support), how should it be used most effectively? What should and shouldn't i be engaging with it?

I am loving every minute of this now, planning on getting myself the marines module tomorrow and can't wait for the British. Good lord the mix of irregulars and SF threw me off. I'd laugh off the attacks by the Fedayeen, then end up assaulting buildings full off Syrian SF that in comparison were absolute hard as nails.

Regards

Salam

[Other Means]

Probably an RPG. FYI, weapons can be recovered. So if another squad went to the position of the RPG gunner someone could have picked it up and used it.

Or it could have been a grenade. Or a mine. Or most anything - it's a complicated world in there.

[Rafik63]

A mine... Any way to watch out or clear for those?

Regards

Salam

[cmfan]

Not sure if there are any mine fields in that mission, regardless at the moment there aren't any ways to detect minefields other than by stepping on on them. It's a limitation of the game for now unless BF changes adds it in.

[hoolaman]

Hey guys,

Just thought I'd introduce myself onto the forums and what not. My name is salam(I'll explain about the name if anyone asks) , not been playing CMSF too long but keen to pick up what i can.

I for one am curious. The fact that you mention it means there is a story to tell. If you'd like to tell it please do.

Glad you are enjoying the game!

[Pandur]

the big explosion is the IED sited on the far left(EDIT; i mean right ) exit of the walled compound in campain mission 2(looked from start point of blue).

the exit to the runway, next to the tower, you guys should really remember

nothing to do about an IED but to kill the trigger man. if he dies it cant be triggered by AI anymore.