Narrow Streets, Kelly's Heros and Turret Traverse

[J Ruddy]

We all know the scene in Kelly's Heroes where the Tiger can't traverse its turret to engage Donald Sutherland's Sherman (which handily nails the Tiger with what is essentially a 75 mm paintball)

I haven't seen this problem in CMX1. I assume that in certain terrain (light woods) it may be abstracted into slower turret slew rates, but I'm not 100% sure on that one.

In CMX2 I have the impression that we're going to have much more detail and smaller map grids. I'm hoping that narrow lanes are possible and I wonder if we're going to see tank guns slewing through buildings - kind of like the way you can get overlap when you put your tank beside a building and rotate it in CMX1 - or if there will be better collision detection and (for long barrelled tanks) the inability to rotate the turret in the desired direction if there is an obstruction?

This is not a big deal, just a nice to have. Another thread made me curious as to whether this is in the scope of CMX2 or not?

[YankeeDog]

Depends a bit on theatre, but the ability to model narrower streets, which certain vehicles might be able to fit down, but not turn around or slew their turrets more than about 45 degrees from straight ahead, would be nice.

Worth noting that this isn't necessarily an urban-only thing -- narrow country lanes with large trees and/or high enbankments along the road edge (as in bocage) can create similar effects, and are quite common in certain parts of the world.

To me, this falls in the same category as some other terrain/vehicle stuff, like more flexibility to model different width and weight limits for bridges. IMHO, stuff like this is not a critical must-have for the new engine but it would definitely be very nice.

Cheers,

YD

[Snow Leopard]

May be too late as everyone already watch movie and will aviod village narrow road if play online.

I often aviod road in village if send only tank because of anti-tank guns and anti-tank teams. To assult the village, have tank follow troop as they sweep village. I will still aviod farm dirt roads in open space due to mines and hidden anti-guns too.

It is Hollywood thing, directors want that way to make thing so funny and generate money even collect awards.

[J Ruddy]

Originally posted by Snow Leopard:

May be too late as everyone already watch movie and will aviod village narrow road if play online.

I often aviod road in village if send only tank because of anti-tank guns and anti-tank teams. To assult the village, have tank follow troop as they sweep village. I will still aviod farm dirt roads in open space due to mines and hidden anti-guns too.

It is Hollywood thing, directors want that way to make thing so funny and generate money even collect awards.

I can't tell if you trying to say that my idea for collision detection is a bad idea or give me a lesson on tactics. Because if it is the latter, send me a balanced for human play CMBB/CMAK urban setting PBEM and we'll see what happens... :cool:

[birdstrike]

God, I've been waiting for something like this ever since I started playing simulations and FPS.

Would be awesome to have something like this in the game, but probably too difficult to code?

I can almost see dozens of AI controlled tanks and guns, trying to traverse towards a target and getting virtually stuck at walls and trees, just because the AI can't undertand what's happening.

[hoolaman]

I recently read a real life veteran account of a Panther getting nailed after getting its gun stuck against a tree.

That proves it happened for real at least once, but maybe not enough to code in the game. Also collision detection with each individual tree would be a bit of a nightmare.

[Michael Emrys]

You guys are something else: "It would be totally awesome if the game was coded to track whether each soldier remember to button up his fly after his last piss! :cool: :cool: :cool: This is the only thing I play games for!"

Michael

[hoolaman]

It may well effect his ability to turn around in a confined space!

[Bruce70]

Having slower movement in various terrain types is probably a better abtraction than slower turret traverse - we assume the driver/commander avoids getting into those situations in the first place. So we should have a dense-urban/narrow-streets terrain type where you don't get a movement bonus for being on a road.

[Michael Emrys]

Originally posted by Bruce70:

Having slower movement in various terrain types is probably a better abtraction than slower turret traverse - we assume the driver/commander avoids getting into those situations in the first place. So we should have a dense-urban/narrow-streets terrain type where you don't get a movement bonus for being on a road.

I think both would be a good thing. What I object to is the demand that the game calculate whether the turret can traverse and if so how far. That's one of those nit-picky details that just ain't worth would it would cost in programming time or machine resources...as should have been perfectly obvious.

Michael

[J Ruddy]

What I object to is the demand that the game calculate whether the turret can traverse and if so how far.

I think all the posters that think this is a good idea included a 'neat but not a must have' qualifier.

This is not a big deal, just a nice to have.

IMHO, stuff like this is not a critical must-have for the new engine but it would definitely be very nice

Would be awesome to have something like this in the game, but probably too difficult to code?

but maybe not enough to code in the game. Also collision detection with each individual tree would be a bit of a nightmare

Look I can put a rolling eyes smilies in my posts too...

[sdr633]

Okay, thanks to this thread, I just had to watch Kelly's Heros again.

[Abbott]

Originally posted by J Ruddy:

Look I can put a rolling eyes smilies in my posts too...

Yeah, Mike is old, mean and grumpy. But once you get to know him, he is old, mean and grumpy. He does rock us with some good natured humor now and then but usually he is just old, mean and grumpy. I think he kind of looks like that guy on the Scooter Store advertisement that is in his garage and looks like he is about to biff one of his grandsons upside the head when they shut off the camera.

[Michael Emrys]

Originally posted by Abbott:

Yeah, Mike is old, mean and grumpy.

So? You're mean and grumpy without the excuse of being old.

Thpppppppppppppp!

Michael

[A.E.B]

Originally posted by Michael Emrys:

You guys are something else: "It would be totally awesome if the game was coded to track whether each soldier remember to button up his fly after his last piss! :cool: :cool: :cool: This is the only thing I play games for!"

Michael

At your age Mike you need the game to be coded to remind you to unbutton your fly when you take a piss!

A.E.B

[Abbott]

Originally posted by Michael Emrys:

</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Abbott:

Yeah, Mike is old, mean and grumpy.

So? You're mean and grumpy without the excuse of being old.

Thpppppppppppppp!

Michael </font>

[Soddball]

You're sitting in front of Steve's monitor? Then what the hell is the new game called? Don't waste your chance.

[J Ruddy]

Originally posted by Abbott:

</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by J Ruddy:

Look I can put a rolling eyes smilies in my posts too...

Yeah, Mike is old, mean and grumpy. But once you get to know him, he is old, mean and grumpy. He does rock us with some good natured humor now and then but usually he is just old, mean and grumpy. I think he kind of looks like that guy on the Scooter Store advertisement that is in his garage and looks like he is about to biff one of his grandsons upside the head when they shut off the camera. </font>

[rune]

Soddy old chap,

I could tell you the name of the first game of the new engine, but then the Pengers would pounce on you to beat the information out of you, and I just can't do that to you. To see Seanachai dancing a jig on your head could scare the rest of the wafflers.

besides, who says the naming convention stayed the same? I am not saying it did or did not change. Besides, I have to go back and continue work on the Hover Prawns.

Rune

[M1A1TC]

One time me and my tank crew were coming back from a range in our tank, and all of the sudden I heard a huge BOOM (I was driving at the time)

Apperently as we had to keep the turret pointing down-range, we hit a tree with the gun tube on the way back.

As we hit it, the turret just spawn around, and we had no more control over it. Later we found out that the impact had sheared a bunch of teeth on the traverse ring. You could push the turret around by hand. The gun also brake the gun mount, and that had to be replaced. It took 3 days to fix. The whole turret had to come off

[flamingknives]

Ouch. I would have thought that tank traverses had shear pins or some such to prevent costly damage to the drives.

[Abbott]

Tanker horror stories...

Did you here the one about the M60 (those are probably as old as you are M1 guy) that hit a low lying power line in Germany with its main antenna? It set off several rounds that were upright in the floor ready rack. The lesson was learned to put a 1/2 thick solid rubber ring on the floor in the shell case rings.

Does the M1 use an upright ready rack for a dozen or so rounds? If you were facing the breach the rounds would be held with a floor ring and a quick release bracket about two thirds up on the shell casing near your left leg.

I wonder if they still tell that story at Holder Complex but now call it an M1 thing?

[flamingknives]

Not sure I'm really qualified to answer, but I don't think any modern western tanks carry ammunition in the fighting compartment anymore. It all lives in the turret bustle behind a blast door.

The only exception, AFAIK, is the Challenger which, due to the separate loading ammunition, stores non-volatile KE rounds on the turret wall.

[Michael Dorosh]

Originally posted by rune:

besides, who says the naming convention stayed the same? I am not saying it did or did not change.

Um, well, Steve did actually...

[Andrew H.]

While I think that keeping track of individual barrel lenghts and street widths might be too abstruse for CMx2, a somewhat more abstracted system might add a lot to the game. Perhaps the game could have narrow streets down which tanks could drive, but not turn around in, and extra narrow streets (think alleys), which would be completely barred to tankss and larger vehicles, although perhaps some smaller vehicles could drive down them).