Space Lobsters, When would people like it set.

[Peter Cairns]

Now given how many supposedly sane people went ape when BF didn't do a historical scenario I know I am taking a risk here ( especially as it might reawaken Dorosh).

Given that a CM:SciFi is a possibility, what setting do people have in mind or would prefer.

NOW.

Like the new WWW's or Stargate, or even god forbid "V", this would see the game set in the near future ( although hopefully not while Strker force is actually in Syria).

This makes the human side pretty easy to do at at least pretty acturate. It has the disadvantage that anything that can come from beyond the stars will probably be able to kick the **** out of us.

NEAR.

This is more Bladerunner, Outland, Event Horizon, 2010, time scale, set in space and in the near future ( within 50 years or so) with advanced versions of what we have now. It could be set entirely in our solar system ( we now have a wealth of data on the moons of Saturn and Jupitor, right down to detailed maps).

An advantage of this period is thet the weapons would be familiar and the difficulites of space travel such, that a Company sized force would be about the limit of what you could reasonably depoly, as opposed to huge fleets of star destroyers.

Of course, Alien, Pitch Black, The Fifth Element, Starship Troopers and Serenity, all have a sort of mix "Stardrive and Shotguns", which i have to say I've never been comfortable with, a bit like landingcraft hitting Omaha beach, to disgorge guys with swords and shields.

NIRVANA

This is your far in the future ( or Long Long ago) scenario and covers startrek, starwars, dune and even the terrible Highlander 2.

This setting is ultra in the future and has weapons and technology we can only imagine. The problem here is that in some respects you either downrate all the weapons to make it a combat game, or you push the limits but make it incredibly lethal.

Phasers are great because they can make people dissappear, but if you actually used them like that in a game a firefight would last about five seconds. Most films set in the future that have "Rayguns", get round this by just making them like colt 45's that fire a beam, no more accurate no more lethal.

Things like WH40K, are supposed to be set in the far future, but they are actually more like WW2, in Football gear .

So if there was to be a game, what setting do people like.

Peter.

[Tarquelne]

NIRVANA

This is your far in the future ( or Long Long ago) scenario and covers startrek, starwars, dune and even the terrible Highlander 2.

Given my druthers it'd be far-future, but not space opera.

Of course, Space Lobsters sounds pretty space-operaish, if not outright pulp. Eh, the gameplay is what's important. With a wholly fictional setting I'd hope for something very unlike WWII. (Like, even more so than CM:SF.) But even WWII with a twist or two would probably be a hoot.

Maybe Space Lobsters will be set underwater? And the largest "vehicles" will be the X-Lobsters themselves, at something less than 2' long? That'd be different. Can we have cyborg starfish?

[ October 24, 2005, 08:31 PM: Message edited by: Tarquelne ]

[juan_gigante]

I'd like to see a "Near" setting. Starship Troopers type thing. We're in other planets than Earth (until the SLoD find it!!!) and we can go through space, but weaponry is still fairly recognizable for its modern counterparts. Example: hovertanks. They are more advanced because they hover and have fancy guns and armor, but they aren't so advanced that they aren't immediately recognized as tanks.

[ng cavscout]

I was hoping for a "Hammers Slammers" setting, although I imagine the licensing would be a pain.

Anyone familiar with the Larry Niven/Jerry Pournelle books? How about one of those settings? Footfall? Saurons versus First Imperium? Warworld? Ringworld? Man-Kzin wars!!!!! I think these would all be excellent settings. Once again, licensing issues, although I am not sure of the nuts and bolts of that stuff.

The thing about Sci-Fi, I think you need something to set it apart from WW2 or contemporary settings, besides just the eye candy. Maybe an incorporation of some kind of fleet combat a la Starfire?

[Kurtz]

The Space Lobsters are watching us from beyond the dark reaches of space. But they have no need to interfere until we move out of our gravity well.

...this world was being watched keenly and closely by intelligences greater than man's and yet as mortal as his own; that as men busied themselves about their various concerns they were scrutinised and studied, perhaps almost as narrowly as a man with a microscope might scrutinise the transient creatures that swarm and multiply in a drop of water. With infinite complacency men went to and fro over this globe about their little affairs, serene in their assurance of their empire over matter. It is possible that the infusoria under the microscope do the same. No one gave a thought to the older worlds of space as sources of human danger...

Yet across the gulf of space, minds that are to our minds as ours are to those of the beasts that perish, intellects vast and cool and unsympathetic, regarded this earth with envious eyes, and slowly and surely drew their plans against us.

I think it would be cool with a pulp setting.

[Dillweed]

I think steve has confirmed some sort of sci-fi game and has also stated that it will be fairly far future because "if we're making stuff up we might as well go whole hog" or something...

And I liked "V"

[Hertston]

Originally posted by Peter Cairns:

Given that a CM:SciFi is a possibility, what setting do people have in mind or would prefer.

God, I hope not. BF can't be that clueless as to their core market, surely?

However, should the dreaded day come I might be tempted by something that falls in your "near" range. Without licensing particular books or films, something with elements of Haldeman's 'The Forever War' and Starship Troopers (the book, not the travesty that was the movie) would be OK. Both manage to get across the message that war is still tough, dirty and dangerous, even if the latter does set that in a pretty dubious moral context.

For those who havn't read Starship Troopers the most significant difference from the movie that would be relevant to a game is hardware. Rather than the laughable assault rifle armed grunts in the film, in the book the MI was issued with powered armor (anybody ever play Heavy Gear 2?). Each infantryman was essentially a tank (with limited flight capability) with an assortment of weaponry up to (and including) nukes. You will see that with that concept the idea of sending a platoon sized forced to 'pacify' a city of alien nasties made rather more sense!.. but that would need to be cut back a little in a game, of course.

[jim crowley]

Some sort of fantasy-based medieval Total War could be interesting.

Strategic/operational level with armies etc, then down to tactical wego turn-based battles.

This would use a more quasi-historical approach than sci-fi.

CMSF is sci-fi enough for me.

[Peter Cairns]

I am pretty much for near as opposed to the extreme future as, most of the things people like most ( tanks and infantry) could well be redundant in a few hundred years. That and I've never liked it when people just re write the laws of physics to make a Game/Film/Book, work, antigrav and hyperdrive and the likes.

One of my favourite"Near" books is Clarke's "Rendezvous with Rama" (the series goes down hill as he chases a big ending). This has a small group of astronauts exploring a huge ark ship. I never played the game but heard it was only just passable.

As to ignoring the Fan base, thats what the WW2 modules are for, and things like Korea and vietnam.

CM:SLoD, or CM:WoT, fantasy and Sci fi, are about bringing in new people who wouldn't look at WW2 or Korea, and hopefully getting them to buy more BF products.

[ng cavscout]

CM: Zombie Apocalypse?

[Dschugaschwili]

Do we even need earthlings in a fictional setting? I could do well without them.

[KiloIndiaAlpha]

Starship Troopers. Base it on the book not the film.

[Cameroon]

I'd be for a Starship Troopers-esque game (definitely book based). I'm equally for far future as near future, though maybe leaning a bit towards far. I don't see any need to break physics to include a great many different technologies, so I don't see that as an impediment to creating a far future game. Whether it would be star-spanning or simply solar system spanning would be up to physics, but you could do an awful lot in-system.

And I don't care what any of you say, I'd love to see a BattleTech game Definite licensing and realism issues, but I'd still love to see it.

[Nicdain]

I would like to see a setting like "Aliens", with humans on one side, maybe with slightly advanced weapons, gear, and so on, and on the other side some kind of alien creatures, terrific, able to kick asses (abilities: sthealthness, brutal strength; weapons: some sort of organic matter, like acid), but with weak points which make the game challenging

[M Hofbauer]

but especially

Haldemann's Forever War

showed how much our old saying "war is 99% boredom and 1% chaotic action" would be even more pronounced in such a SciFi-war, like P.C. said, actually such fights might last only seconds or fractions thereof, compared to the many (hundreds of) years that it takes to get the troops in place over billions of kilometers.

and oh yeah I remember the original StarshipTroopers. the main difference to the movie was not only the completely different combat model, but that the movie completely omitted all the protofascist drivel that made up half of Heinlein's novel. all those nukes strapped to the one-man-army exo-armor soldiers I remember well, he handed them out like throwing candy at a parade, a nuke here, a nuke there...typical 1950ies nuke-euphoria-thinking.

the movie however was a superb work of sarcasm and parody; aside from that I always wondered why they didnt use tanks in the combat setting of the movie.

[Dave H]

Sounds like what most of the members want is a sci-fi game where they can lay waste to entire space fleets and armies. How about a game based on "Way of the Pilgrim"? The player's character could be an Aalaag warrior and destroy everything that earth has to throw against him. That way the player always wins and as a bonus gets to blow up all the airplanes and tanks and infantry in the whole world. Good times, eh?

[J Ruddy]

Space Lobsters of Doom Company, circa year 2587

First you must realize that the Space Crabs are subservient to the Space Lobsters. They are faster, stronger and more able of technical or delicate work, but they lack the spine to stand up to their oppressors. (groan)

(As put into human terms)

Company Commander: Mean Green Lobster Queen - A Large Green Space Lobster, her massive antennae allow her to communicate telepathically with the rest of her space Lobster Army.

Her Command section includes two (2) Lobster Brutes. Lobster Brutes are hulking eunuchs, not too bright, and each carries an LPG (Light Pearl Gun) as well as a Shell Repair Kit.

Standard Company: Consists of 3 Standard Lobster Platoons and a Crab Support Platoon

Platoon Commander: Green Lobster - Smaller female lobsters who receive orders from the Queen telepathically. Only female lobsters can read the Queens mind (this is a universal truth) and so only Green Lobsters can accept commands from the Queen.

Standard Platoon: Consists of 3 Lobster Brute Sections and a Medium Space Shrimp Support Section

Lobster Brute Section: Consists of 4 LPG Lobster Brutes, 2 LRPG (Long Range Pearl Gun) Brutes and a Space Tick Launcher (STL) Team made up of Two Small Space Crabs.

Medium Space Shrimp Section: Consists of 2 Medium Space Shrimp Launchers (SSL), each 'manned' by three Small Space Crabs

Crab Support Platoon (Led by a Platoon Commander: Green Lobster) Various Company Support and repair roles are filled by the Crab Support Platoon. These platoons are equipped according to the specific needs of the company as dicated by the tactical and strategic situation. Space Crabs are extremely well trained and can expertly fill a number of roles including combat, repair and engineering.

-------------------------------------

A Light Recon Company Consists of 4 Light Crab Platoons

Platoon Commander: Green Lobster riding a Large Fast Crab Brute

Light Crab Platoon: Consists of 4 Rapid Attack Space Crab Sections

Rapid Attack Space Crab Section: Consists of 8 Small Rapid Attack Space Crabs, (each mounting an LPG) and a Space Tick Launcher Team made up of Two Small Space Crabs.

-------------------------------------

A Heavy Assault Company Consists of 4 Heavy Assault Platoons

Platoon Commander:Green Lobster riding a Massive Assault Crab

Assault Crab Platoon: Consists of 4 Assault Crab Sections

Assault Crab Section: Consists of 4 Massive Assault Crabs, each armed with multiple LPGs, STL's and SSL's

-------------------------------------

Acid Spitting Clam Support Team: Medium, Large or Giant Acid Spitting Clam (ASC), manned by 4 Small Space Crabs.

Space Shrimp Support Team: Medium, Large or Giant Space Shrimp Launchers (SSL), each 'manned' by three Small Space Crabs

-------------------------------------

Technology:

LPG: 12mm Light Pearl Gun. The standard issue personal weapon of the Space Lobster Army, this weapon has an effective range of 300 meters and a 800 ppm rate of fire. The LPG can penetrate modern body armour but also provides a shrapnel area effect when hitting a hardened surface, such as the side of an AFV for example.

LRPG: 12mm Long Range Pearl Gun. The Long Range Pearl gun is essentially a longer barrelled LPG with an increased velocity, power and range (800 Meters). A reduced rate of fire of 300 ppm is the sacrifice made to achieve these increases.

STL: Space Tick Launchers: Space Ticks are nasty little creatures that burrow into the first object they contact, be it a Metal Vehicle, a rock wall, or human flesh. If a space tick penetrates a vehicle's armour it will wreak havoc on the internal systems, devouring equipment and laying its eggs.

SSL: Space Shrimp Launchers: Medium, Large and Giant. Space Shrimps have only one redeeming quality, they explode when they touch anything metal. There are three basic sizes of Space Shrimp Launchers, Medium, Large and Giant. Clever Crab Crews will coat a small fragment of steel in wax and feed it to the shrimp. When the shrimp's stomach acids finish eating the wax, the metal is exposed and the shrimp explodes. This is fundamental to the tactic of 'Air Burst Shrimps'.

ASC: Acid Spitting Clam: This is just as it sounds. The team feeds the clam fermented Seaweed, the clam's saliva turns the fermented Seaweed into a very nasty acid, the clam spits it out. Clams may be aimed for direct or indirect fire.

-------------------------------------

Soldiers: Every member of the Space Lobster Army has an external skeleton or shell. These shells vary in thickness from very light (Rapid Attack Space Crabs) to Extremely Heavy (Massive Assault Crabs) and give the creatures some defence against shrapnel and direct fire. Although their innards are very soft and mushy, their biological makeup make them difficult to stop, very few things short of outright killing will stop them. Although well trained, the troops must remain in the command radius of a Green Lobster. This is especially true for the Space Crabs, as they have been known to scuttle away at inopportune times.

Anyone care to Add - Edit - Improve or perhaps tackle the org for the human side Circa 2587...?

[ng cavscout]

Originally posted by Dave H:

Sounds like what most of the members want is a sci-fi game where they can lay waste to entire space fleets and armies. How about a game based on "Way of the Pilgrim"? The player's character could be an Aalaag warrior and destroy everything that earth has to throw against him. That way the player always wins and as a bonus gets to blow up all the airplanes and tanks and infantry in the whole world. Good times, eh?

I haven't gotten that from the posts on this forum. Hammers Slammers would be human vs human. The Starship Troopers universe is not unbalanced, as I recall.

Some of the fictional universes put forward in this thread would be quite interesting to play in a CM type game.

[Peter Cairns]

J Ruddy,

Your space lobster army comes across as just people in costumes, theey have different names and the guns hvae fancy titles, but it's basically WW2 in drag again.

It's like WH40k, it's all about looks and nothing to do with trying to create a good combat game. If people are going to go for the far future then at least come up with some imagination.

It's like hover tanks, I mean whats the point, first you have to "invent" Gravity drive, and then what do you get.

Well if it stays close to the ground, you get a tank, and if it flies around at speed you get a plane. So what.

Oh and on the subject of bending physics to make the game work, i was wondeeering how long it would take for someone to bring up Telepathy, I mean since when has that every had a scientific basis. It's a good way of getting round a lot of problems, like "how to I get to use swords in the future" I know I'll make them laser swords and create a sort of magic that lets them deflect bullets.

Peter

[J Ruddy]

Dear Peter

Bite me fecking arse I was joking for Gods sake.

You wouldn't know satire if it came along and slapped you with a WWII clone wrapped in a far future skin and spanked your bottom with fermented sea weed, [edit].

Sincerely

Jim

p.s. The whole idea of a sci-fi game is juvenile. I sincerely hope that Steve, Charles et al realise this and focus on getting the historical games made.

p.p.s. thanks for caring, [edit].

{Edited to remove personal attacks based on Peter's resemblance to a Male Donkey.}

[ October 25, 2005, 10:16 AM: Message edited by: J Ruddy ]

[J Ruddy]

Come on mods - are you going to let me get away with trolling like that? Gimme a warning! Slap my wrist! Ban me! Praise me! Kick me arse!

bah!

[J Ruddy]

That's the problem with the Scots, a lousy sense of humour! They didn't even realise bagpipes were supposed to be a gag gift when the Irish gave them to 'em!

[Edit] OK I'll try to add something semi-constructinve to the thread,

- If, in the next 100 years, war-like aliens ever come across planet earth looking for whatever we have that they want, we're screwed. It only takes a simple biological program to wipe out the entire human race, hell, I've often wondered why we haven't killed ourselves already. The whole concept of a 'realistic' sci fi war with near future humans vs advanced creature X is a dead end for this very reason.

Far future wars? Or Long time ago in a galaxy far far away? Parallel Dimensions? All these options might as well be "Middle Earth" or WH40K because there is no data with which you can predict what the TO&E of such a conflict would even look like. All of our knowledge of War is based on a few thousand years of human conflict.

So if you want a realistic example of war 50, 500 or 50,000 years from now, you'd better first build yourself a time machine, visit the era in question and report back to us.

[Edit #2]

Oh Crap - I forgot to tell you what I would like - seriously. umm.. OK - A post apocalyptic world where clean water is money, days are scorchingly hot, humans have blown themselves back to the Iron Age. A rag-tag mixture of Medieval, Near Future and Current weaponry, clans of warring peoples all fighting over clean water and prime real estate. The living conditions are horrible, people are desperate, small scale conflicts constant. God it sounds like one of Turtledove's awful books... never mind..!

[ October 25, 2005, 10:49 AM: Message edited by: J Ruddy ]

[M Hofbauer]

Originally posted by Peter Cairns:

J Ruddy,

Your space lobster army comes across as just people in costumes

you should have preceded that with a SPOILER ALERT,

because this secret wasn't supposed to be revealed until nearly the final episodes of the second season.

seriously, I think J Ruddy's post was not meant seriously, but in good natured fun, he wasn't really trying to seriously draft the upcoming game.

Besides, you are putting all of us in sort of a dilemma here. You don't accept analogies of existing equipment and technology, and you despise unexplainable "bends of physics" to create completely new "technology"/equipment (like, anti-gravity, telepathy), which leaves us in quite a cinch.

if you show me a new color, I will tell you about the equipment and weapons (within your conditions) of a space army a thousand years from now.

The very near future might see fuel cells replace gasoline and batteries, new ceramics and plastic materials (incl. improvement of armor and body armor), caseless ammunition, improvement re. information technology and networking, more supranational military units.

but that is all pretty lame re. Sci-Fi.

edit: took that long and I can't even do it right

[ October 25, 2005, 10:55 AM: Message edited by: M Hofbauer ]

[M Hofbauer]

dang, I shouldnt write offline...

not only was I beat to it and my post made redundant by J Ruddy himself replying...

but his not one but THREE posts in the meantime are nothing but utter humiliation.. :eek:

sodding off now...

[imported_mike_the_wino2]

Originally posted by Peter Cairns:

....it's basically WW2 in drag again.

This is one I WON'T be buying. :eek: