Mass (gamer) market appeal, and a poll of sorts

[Sgt Joch]

Originally posted by Dillweed:

*YAWN* We hear this every 3 years when the new console come out.

*DAMN* I can't use that line again until 2008.

[Dillweed]

Originally posted by JC_Hare:

</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Dillweed:

*YAWN* We hear this every 3 years when the new console come out.

*DAMN* I can't use that line again until 2008. </font>

[Peter Cairns]

I read on the BBC news web site they were talking about the next generation of console titles growing fron $3 to $5m to develop to more like $8m, and the number of companies that can handle them dropping, add to that they though big name titles could drop from 100-120 a year to more like 60-80.

With the price of games for the likes of the XBOX360 set to climb by 60%, I can see the console wars ending in at least one big name casualty and being a pirates paradise.

Peter.

[Sgt Joch]

Dillweed, I hope you are right, but I'm looking at the new XBOX (my son wants it ), 3.2 GHZ CPU, ATI X1800XL video card, for about CDN $500.

If I want to upgrade my computer, the best I could get would be a pentium 3.8 or a FX-57 and when I add the motherboard, ddr memory, fast HD, new pci video card, etc., you're looking at lets say CDN $2,000.

That's mighty powerful competition from the XBOX.

Tom Clancy is starting to migrate his games to XBOX. Ghost Recon 3 will be XBOX only, no PC. I thought GR 1 was a pretty decent game.

If all the FPS, tactical shooters and the like become XBOX only, will software makers keep making games for the PC market or will PCs go back to being workhorses while consoles become the new entertainment machines.

If that happens, what happens to Battlefront, will it remain a niche PC player or will we eventually see a XBOX version of CM?

[MikeyD]

"...have taken it back within a week b/c it is too difficult to start off with."

CM difficult? I found playing it as easy and intuitive as falling off a log! I did keep losing against the AI, but the game was easy otherwise

[Homo ferricus]

Originally posted by MikeyD:

CM difficult? I found playing it as easy and intuitive as falling off a log! I did keep losing against the AI, but the game was easy otherwise

seriously, i started when i was 12 and it was simple enough for me to understand, besides the fact that i had no idea what the difference was between HEAT, AP, Tungsten, or HE rounds.

[Colin]

I'm 20, I've been posting here since I was 14 however I had a hiatus during the period BFC had no OS X offerings. I have always kept a machine around with OS 9 but work/school/tactical FPS's kept me in OS X.

I found CM looking for CC2 maps when I'd played that out. Basically have been a sponge for weapons/warfare since 9 or 10ish.

I like to think I've done quite well, I don't know any other people my age that can tell you what revisions of the PzV had the mantlet ricochet defect in them, or for that matter what a PzV, mantlet or the proper spelling of ricochet is. I owe it all to Steve now.

Also, my pride and joy is my name being on the CM:BO FAQ.

Self rant over now. Sorry bout that.

[Peter Cairns]

Most kids these days can't tell a tiger from a PZIV, and I blame the decline in models.

In my day ( 25 years back) If you wanted a decent toy tank you needed to go out and buy a model and build it. So most kids bought models and as WW2 dominated by your teens you could pretty much identify most aircraft and vehicles from WW2.

I remember there used to be a lot of specialised model shops and stacks of kits in the average toy shop. These days is hard to find models at all in most shops and as to specialised shops they are just disappearing.

I suppose that's just change.

Peter.

[kipanderson]

Hi,

With the foreign policy decisions of the Bush administration behind us CMSF clearly does have mass market appeal, especially in the US. I think this is a very good thing, the more money BFC make the better. CMSF will no doubt be marketed as the most realistic and accurate simulation of the type of fighting we have seen in recent years in the Middle East and may see in future. As such it is bound to sell well.

BFC have also done this without in anyway threatening or damaging the heart, the core features that made previous CM games so great. In my view.

One of the keys to the success of CM has been its scale and scope, as with Squad Leader. This remains unchanged, with just the slightest tweak downwards in scale but nothing that really changes things. Perfect. ( However, a word of warning, tweak downwards in scale any further, and in my view, you will kill CM… it will just be another “shooter”… scale, like much else, is a very finely balanced matter.)

When it comes to going Real Time, if the hardware can handle it and we still have the option of WEGO then why not? Best of both worlds. I look forward to having a go at both RT and the usual WEGO. When playing by myself I will often us RT and just pause when I wish, in head-to-head I am likely to stick to WEGO. (My only reservation is the extent to which the AI may take a hit with RT. “Commonsense”, not the best of reasons I admit, tells me the AI may struggle with RT… but time will tell.)

Contemporary First World v Semi-Third World is not my favourite setting… but fun all the same . Importantly BFC want a change from WWII, so once again it is a very good thing that they have that break from WWII.

With all the changes so far announced it really does seem to be a case of “being for the best, in the best of all possible worlds”.

All good fun,

All the best,

Kip.

[Splinty]

Originally posted by Peter Cairns:

Most kids these days can't tell a tiger from a PZIV, and I blame the decline in models.

In my day ( 25 years back) If you wanted a decent toy tank you needed to go out and buy a model and build it. So most kids bought models and as WW2 dominated by your teens you could pretty much identify most aircraft and vehicles from WW2.

I remember there used to be a lot of specialised model shops and stacks of kits in the average toy shop. These days is hard to find models at all in most shops and as to specialised shops they are just disappearing.

I suppose that's just change.

Peter.

Your kidding right? I'm a 45 year old modeler, and there has never been as many kits of as many variants at such high quality as there is right now. Especially if your into German WWII armor. If you need proof visit Armorama.com or any other modelling website.

[VonWebb]

33 here and don't have any kids so I am not playing chess or video games with them. My girlfriend doesn't like RTS, FPS, WeGo or computers for that matter and damn it--TRY AS I MAY TO NETWORK MY COMPUTERS AND SIT HER DOWN BEHIND A KAR!--she hates the sound of gunfire!

I am however a private tutor and I agree with the earlier statement that at a younger age most kids don't like to live with mistakes and would rather bolster an army/breed orcs and go googly eyed at eye candy (i do too!). I mean christ ever try to play CMBB with a hang-over? I have to be in top mental form to deploy... and well i'm always hung-over so... well not as much as i USED to be...

[Moronic Max]

Hell if anything will hurt sales of CM:SF it is people under twenty stumblig across this forum and realising what a bunch of Sad old geeks play this game.....

Go browse the Battlefield 2 forums, then come back here and read what you wrote again.

You'll laugh as hysterically as I did, I promise.

[lizardman743]

You guys are old, im 14.

[lizardman743]

Originally posted by Peter Cairns:

[QB] Most kids these days can't tell a tiger from a PZIV, and I blame the decline in models.

13 and I do flames of war and love CM.

Hoorah for the new generation of CM!

[lizardman743]

Can't believe I said 13, 14 is what I meant.........my bad.

[Zalgiris 1410]

Originally posted by kipanderson:

With the foreign policy decisions of the Bush administration behind us CMSF clearly does have mass market appeal, especially in the US. I think this is a very good thing, the more money BFC make the better. CMSF will no doubt be marketed as the most realistic and accurate simulation of the type of fighting we have seen in recent years in the Middle East and may see in future. As such it is bound to sell well.

One of the keys to the success of CM has been its scale and scope, as with Squad Leader. This remains unchanged, with just the slightest tweak downwards in scale but nothing that really changes things. Perfect. (However, a word of warning, tweak downwards in scale any further, and in my view, you will kill CM… it will just be another “shooter”… scale, like much else, is a very finely balanced matter.)

Contemporary First World v Semi-Third World is not my favourite setting… but fun all the same . Importantly BFC want a change from WWII, so once again it is a very good thing that they have that break from WWII.

This gives me a thought, may be the BFC ought to expand Shock Force in scope if not scale and develop it to encompass other First World contingents especially the British, but also others such as France, Germany, Italy, Canada and other NATO Countries as well as Australia, South Korea and Japan. Israel too. In doing so BFC then would be able to rename it to something like 'The Mother of All Wars."

I know what would sell well with them kids and RTS jockeys - "The Mother****er of All Wars."

BFC oughta get some Mass appeal out of that one.Whadya recon?

[C'Rogers]

24 here. I have introduced the CM series to two friends and one uncle over the past couple years. First they all found the game very intutive so I don't no why they some think it has a high learning curve. Once someone explains the different movement orders you are set (or take the time to read quickly through the manual). The game is so realistic that if you have a basic grasp of tactics you can start playing.

CM is a tactical game and some people just won't like that. I have one friend who picked up CM very well, gave me a tough challenge his first time playing, but didn't really like the game. He is much more into big startegy games, he wants to do everything, even if it has very little depth.

On the other hand the other friend I introduced it too loves it and hates strategy games. He wants to get in there and command the units with as much detail as possible, not worry about base building or new units.

So I don't think it really has anything to do with age, some people just prefer one over the other. Or you have people like me who will gladly play both types.

[Peter Cairns]

I think the learning curve for CM is a bit like Chess, if you put a bit of thought in It doesn't take long to get the hang of what all the pieces do.

However it doesn't make you a good player, that takes a lot of hard work practice and a good many beatings.

Peter.

[AstroCat]

Wrong: ghostrecon.com/us/ and ghostrecon.net/

Totally better version coming for PC. Read and you will see. There are tons of reasons the console is not yet a PC. Don't have time to get in to it right now. (think mouse and keyboard for starters) Maybe more later.

Originally posted by JC_Hare:

Dillweed, I hope you are right, but I'm looking at the new XBOX (my son wants it ), 3.2 GHZ CPU, ATI X1800XL video card, for about CDN $500.

If I want to upgrade my computer, the best I could get would be a pentium 3.8 or a FX-57 and when I add the motherboard, ddr memory, fast HD, new pci video card, etc., you're looking at lets say CDN $2,000.

That's mighty powerful competition from the XBOX.

Tom Clancy is starting to migrate his games to XBOX. Ghost Recon 3 will be XBOX only, no PC. I thought GR 1 was a pretty decent game.

If all the FPS, tactical shooters and the like become XBOX only, will software makers keep making games for the PC market or will PCs go back to being workhorses while consoles become the new entertainment machines.

If that happens, what happens to Battlefront, will it remain a niche PC player or will we eventually see a XBOX version of CM?

[ADMIN: commercial links edited]

[ December 12, 2005, 01:54 PM: Message edited by: Moon ]

[markl]

I think the learning curve for entry level is fairly easy. To master the game is a different matter altogether. For a beginner I think the slow pace plus if you really want to win you can double your forces against the PC makes the game easy to get into.

For some other games like combat flight sims and other FPS you have to learn a whole lot of different keys that have to be applied in the heat of the moment. And with combat mission games so far you have access to all the maps etc without having to win the previous one. Which means you can have a go at the lot without the need for cheats as the game gets harder and harder as you go.

I think the learning curve is a bit over rated.

As for distribution. I vote for Battle Front to sell their games any day. How many other distributors will give you a new disk if you return he old one. Even after a few years. Or even return your e-mail regarding a bad disk.

Look at CDV. We hear more complaints from people who purchased from them than Battle Front, because Battle Front always honors their products without exception.

There is a good chance you can still get a new CMBO disk if you needed one.

As for mass appeal. I could be wrong but it seems like the games with the most appeal especially with the younger set seem to have the worst copy protection on them. For example the new Battle of Britain II from Shockwave. Their distributor GMX has a very bad name, compared to Shockwave for the copy protection on their disks and have probable cost them some support in the future, and they are in a niche market as well.

I think Battle Front are walking the fine line fairly well.

Cheers MarkL

[KNac]

22 here, playing the best of each world (in reality playing almost nothing due to a computer being broken almost 2 years ago, but this week I've ordered a top super-ultimate-PC hehe).

Agreed with these who said that it has nothing to do with age, but with attitude and taste.

Also, want to say that PC gaming will be dieing because of consoles is totally false and won't happen, in any case the other way around. Consoles will be always one steep (in most cases more than one) backward than PC, and if you check these are evolving to a pseudo-PC, so the fact is that consoles will end dissapeiring (at elast as we know them right now) or evolving to a new class. Sum to that the console games price and the consoles itself price (each time more expensive as technology gets better) and... boilla!

[Moronic Max]

How many other distributors will give you a new disk if you return he old one. Even after a few years. Or even return your e-mail regarding a bad disk.

Interplay would--they replaced one of my Baldur's Gate discs for $5, IIRC. Of course, they're out of business now, but they're the only company I've ever needed to talk to about replacing busted discs, so...

[KiloIndiaAlpha]

I'm 46 or is it 47?... I can't remember...

My eldest son is 6, so I have a real opportunity to instill in him my notion that games that require thought, effort and concentration are, ultimately, more enjoyable and satisfying than the 'one brain cell' games that are so prevalent these days.

Mike

[Josh Coady]

I'm 26.. bought CMBO and CMBB based on PC Gamer reviews and a play through the demo. I also enjoy COD, KOTOR, Civ4, Freespace 2; but have yet to find anything that really compares to Half-Life. For strategy games I do prefer CM to starcraft and other RTS although Rise of Nations was great. I also enjoy the occasional M:TW game but usually only play the turn-based part which makes it risk but with more detail.

Anyway, as others have said, I also tried to get wife my into gaming, but the only thing she really liked was adventure games like Myst and Syberia (and I got her hooked on watching Star Trek and playing Catan).

My eldest son is also 6 and his favorite games are memory, connect 4, checkers, skip-bo, and parcheesi. He'll soon be ready to learn chess and cribbage and he keeps bugging us to teach him Settlers of Catan.

This thread has gone a little OT but I dont mind since it gives a little personal insight into CMers on the boards that you dont normally get.

-Josh

[Canada Guy]

38ish and counting. My only hope is that I have 2 sons that one day might take up the strategy game mantra.

Recently I have not seen much that I would consider interesting. I went to EB games with money in my pocket but came away with nothing. Half-Life 2 was still $59 and what else is there to buy. I played Act of War, C&C Generals, Battlefield 2 and World At War and though interesting, these do not hold my interest for more than a few hours. I have played Dungeon Siege II but it also gets monotonous after a while. I would love to try War In The Pacific but for $84, I will have to love it and have the time to spend playing.

So I am back to CM and ASL Solitaire again. Now if I could only get “Across the Dnepr” as a stand alone game I might be willing to invest the time and effort. All I can say is that the weight of expectations for Battlefront is mighty huge with CMx2.