CM2 WW2

[KiloIndiaAlpha]

When is it planned to develop and release a WW2 version of CM2?

Thanks

Mike

[Redwolf]

What's WW2?

[molotov_billy]

They're developing it at the same time as the CMSF updates and the Marine module. The Marine module comes first, then WW2. I don't believe any hard dates have been posted.

[Paper Tiger]

I seem to recall reading a thread somewhere a long time ago that the schedule was Shock Force first, then after about 6 months, the Marines module and then work would start on the British Army module (hurrah!). WW2 would arrive about the same time as the Brit pack, perhaps about Aug or Sep later this year.

However, it's been nearly 6 months since SF was released and there's been no word on the Marines module so I'm not expecting it to arrive for at least another 2-3 months, possibly even later. And that probably means a later release for WW2. I've seen early 2009 mentioned somewhere.

However, don't get depressed. I could be wrong. Corrections are welcome gentlemen.

[Kilroy Lurking]

,,,,,,,,,and the Mac version...?

David

[JOGR]

Any official info regarding this Marine module?

[Dogface]

posted 05 January, 2006 16:56

BTW, meant to thank you Jarheads for continuing to hound me into making the Marines a priority for CM:SF's Modules. It's oooooo so surprising that you feel that way [big Grin]

Honestly, I think it is a no brainer to go in that direction. The differences in equipment and organization mean a very different experience for the player. Same goes for including other NATO forces.

Steve

posted 08 August, 2007 21:24

Hi Eric,

Welcome. We have no plans on adding an IDF Module. We're keeping our focus on the Syrian storyline and that means keeping the story in Syria [smile]

Our rough expectation for Modules is:

1. US Marines

2. British

3. Some sort of mishmosh of Euros and Canadians, largely influenced by what equipment we have to add.

If we do Modules for foreign militaries we will try to retain commercial rights to at least the basic elements, which would mean more Modules. So at this point it looks like the only chance of an IDF Module is if we do a contract with the IDF itself. I never say never, but I'd not be counting on that happening [big Grin]

Steve

posted 21 August, 2007 21:24

The Marines Module is next and it will build on the existing game system. There will be three things to look forward to:

1. Full array of Marines equipment and organization. Should be a very different experience from a tactics point of view.

2. Inclusion of Syrian Airborne equipment and TO&E. For sure this means BMP-3 and Milan ATGMs. We will include at least one new Syrian tank, which we had intended to be a T-80 but we are now leaning towards a T-90. The reason is Assad went on a shopping trip recently and it would seem that they're changing their wish list from T-80 (they actually had evaluation units some years ago) to T-90.

3. Some new game features. This is TBD but there won't be a radical change in the core game system over what we've patched between now and then. Large feature changes won't happen until the WWII game is out.

As for opening up the game engine to modding I've been extremely frank and honest about our reasons. I can't help it if some people don't like the answer. It's not something we think is in the customer's best interests or in our own. If someone wants to piss and moan about it (again), please find one of the 2 dozen threads that exist and bump it instead of creating yet another one.

Steve

[aka_tom_w]

um

There is only one programmer

and he is busy on one task now,

and that's perfecting CM:SF

V1.06 is up next as we are told

[Greenjacket]

Referance Steves reply, I cannot wait for the British module to be added. Although the British and American Armies are thoroughly intergrated, and a lot of battle drills are the same, there is a definate distinction between the equipment and its employment. The British equipment, such as saxon and the landrover are not fit for purpose and players will have to rethink tactics to achieve missions. Also it would be good in the editor if we can combine British, US Marine, and American Army into mixed task forces, such as are employed in Afghanistan.

Is there a rough date for the British Module?

This is the best wargame to date despite some minor problems

[Paper Tiger]

Is there a rough date for the British Module?

As far as I know, there's not even a rough date for the Marines module. Ballpark guess for the Brit pack is later in the year, probably in time for Xmas. Bummer!

[GSX]

CM-WW2

Just a suggestion.

Forget WEGO and PBEM. It clearly doesnt work that well and if the game was designed for RT concentrate on this solely.

Concentrate the focus more. Instead of Coy based make it Plt based with a few add ons [uS Ard Inf platoon with say 3 Shermans Vs a dug in German Plt] Little or no off-board Arty, make it very tactical. Soldiers not only have 1-1 representation but they are modelled to have individual LOS/LOF.

Upgrade the UI, make it Mouse based so that right clicking on a unit brings up a main menu and highlighting a main command brings up a sub menu.

Make a QB more akin to the CM-1 experience.

Games could be played where you control your whole force in view, no more pausing every 30 secs to find out what your other platoons are up to and IP games would be less weildy, and perhaps, more fun.

I really do think that the scale in SF takes a lot of the enjoyment out of it and reducing this scale would go a long way to improving the RT experience. Also if you designed the game around RT dont hobble it to accomodate WEGO [nor try to have a bastardised WEGO just for the sake of it].

[ January 18, 2008, 02:17 AM: Message edited by: GSX ]

[H.W. Guderian]

Originally posted by GSX:

CM-WW2

Just a suggestion.

Forget WEGO and PBEM. It clearly doesnt work that well and if the game was designed for RT concentrate on this solely.

[snip]

Also if you designed the game around RT dont hobble it to accomodate WEGO [nor try to have a bastardised WEGO just for the sake of it].

How bout this equally (in)valid, selfish, and flippant suggestion?

Forget RT and concentrate on WEGO and everything else that made the CMX1 series such a joy and success?

Just a suggestion.

[Topo]

@GSX:

I play CMSF in WEGO mode, and enjoy it...

do you hate me?

[Paper Tiger]

Wow, you've just finished saying most of this about WEGO and RT in the "My review. CMSF is the best wargame out there" thread claiming that you were misled about the game and you got a solid reply from Steve. You must be very bitter about the perceived (from YOUR viewpoint) lack of support for WEGO to bring up the same thing again.

It's a bit of a shame that ToW doesn't have WEGO. The scale of that game sounds more to your taste but it's RT.

As to your point about QB's being more like the CMx1 experience, you surely MUST have read by now that that's exactly what BFC are planning for WW2. Agree with you about the loss of the right click menu but it's gone man, and we just have to get over it.

[GSX]

Originally posted by Paper Tiger:

Wow, you've just finished saying most of this about WEGO and RT in the "My review. CMSF is the best wargame out there" thread claiming that you were misled about the game and you got a solid reply from Steve. You must be very bitter about the perceived (from YOUR viewpoint) lack of support for WEGO to bring up the same thing again.

It's a bit of a shame that ToW doesn't have WEGO. The scale of that game sounds more to your taste but it's RT.

As to your point about QB's being more like the CMx1 experience, you surely MUST have read by now that that's exactly what BFC are planning for WW2. Agree with you about the loss of the right click menu but it's gone man, and we just have to get over it.

Ooh ladies! Very Catty.

I was merely voicing my opinion of the WW2 version and how I would like to see it. Sorry if I have come across as negative. I firmly believe that the suggestions I made would make the game much more playable [for me and perhaps a lot of others].

For instance in RT a Mouse menu would make much more sense. The reduced scale would make it slicker and more enjoyable and dropping WEGO would give the designers a lot less hassle as they have already said its designed in RT mode.

I'm being serious here and not flippant I really do think that if they head for full RT the game will be great.

It would be nice to hear some constructive thoughts instead of girlie comments though.

[GSX]

Originally posted by H.W. Guderian:

</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by GSX:

CM-WW2

Just a suggestion.

Forget WEGO and PBEM. It clearly doesnt work that well and if the game was designed for RT concentrate on this solely.

[snip]

Also if you designed the game around RT dont hobble it to accomodate WEGO [nor try to have a bastardised WEGO just for the sake of it].

How bout this equally (in)valid, selfish, and flippant suggestion?

Forget RT and concentrate on WEGO and everything else that made the CMX1 series such a joy and success?

Just a suggestion. </font>

[Topo]

I agree to (a little) reduced scale, agree to mouse menu.

But the WEGO, in my opinion, should stay.

[Other Means]

I think we can do WEGO & RT now, why lose that ability? Some things in WEGO need tweaking but nothing - to me - that's deal breaking yet, and maybe something that can return in the future. I play small tight games in RT, and epics in WEGO. I love having the choice.

I wish there was a way to switch modes though.

About the mouse menu - I never, ever used them. And I never pan about the 4 menu squares now. Try my hotkeys file and see if things are easier for you.

I bound Advance to A, Quick to Q, Slow to S, Target to T, Target light to Y, Hunt to H, Face to O etc etc...

If not, amend it until it is

[Cid250]

Originally posted by H.W. Guderian:

</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by GSX:

CM-WW2

Just a suggestion.

Forget WEGO and PBEM. It clearly doesnt work that well and if the game was designed for RT concentrate on this solely.

[snip]

Also if you designed the game around RT dont hobble it to accomodate WEGO [nor try to have a bastardised WEGO just for the sake of it].

How bout this equally (in)valid, selfish, and flippant suggestion?

Forget RT and concentrate on WEGO and everything else that made the CMX1 series such a joy and success?

Just a suggestion. </font>

[H.W. Guderian]

Originally posted by GSX:

</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by H.W. Guderian:

</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by GSX:

CM-WW2

Just a suggestion.

Forget WEGO and PBEM. It clearly doesnt work that well and if the game was designed for RT concentrate on this solely.

[snip]

Also if you designed the game around RT dont hobble it to accomodate WEGO [nor try to have a bastardised WEGO just for the sake of it].

How bout this equally (in)valid, selfish, and flippant suggestion?

Forget RT and concentrate on WEGO and everything else that made the CMX1 series such a joy and success?

Just a suggestion. </font>

[Paper Tiger]

GSX:

"It would be nice to hear some constructive thoughts instead of girlie comments though."

Guess I spend way too much time with the ladies then.

"Steve has also said that the game is designed around the RT engine."

That's a bit misleading. Here's what he said in his reply to you.

"Well, this supposes that CM:SF is primarily designed to be played in RealTime, which it most definitely was not. Believe me, if we wanted the game to be that way we would have just skipped over WeGo completely. We could have shaved 6 months off our development schedule, perhaps more.

Now, it is true that CMx2's core engine is RealTime. That's something we've been mentioning every chance we could get over the last 3 years. Not only that, we explained in detail as to why that's the case and the benefits it brings to WeGo play."

It sounds like you're misquoting him to support your false thesis that BFC don't support WEGO, explicitly stated at the end of your first post...

"[nor try to have a bastardised WEGO just for the sake of it]."

also...

"I was merely voicing my opinion of the WW2 version and how I would like to see it."

From reading your posts, I have a hard time believing that you're describing the game that you'd like to see. Perhaps I'm wrong but if I am, it's safe bet that you're going to be very disappointed with CM2 WW2.

[GSX]

Not so.

I would love a game that I described, very tactical and with the ability to control all the forces I see in Real time. I think it would play great and the reduced scale would give most PCs the ability to play it.

I'd rather see WEGO dropped for the sake of a much better game.

Im a gamer, and I will play anything that is enjoyable, right now for me, and my friends SF isnt enjoyable. Thats the crux for me. I enjoy Cmx1, Rome TW, COD4, Halo and Warhammer. Right now Warhammer is much more enjoyable that CMx2. But CMx2 has the potential to be something different.

[ January 19, 2008, 01:54 PM: Message edited by: GSX ]

[LongLeftFlank]

I for one fully respect your opinion as to what you like to play as a gamer. I agree that you can have fun with 30 men per side.... I for one play a lot of Iraq platoon-scale patrol actions set in Fallujah, Ramadi and elsewhere. They're playable in a single sitting, and the AI doesn't perform too stupidly.

However, these actions aren't the focus of this game as designed... CM strives to be an honest simulation (i.e. simulates real combat), as well as a fun game.

And the vast majority of military actions other than spec ops, recce and patrol are conducted at company to battalion (100 - 400 men a side) and larger. In fact, some posters here (e.g. JasonC) have argued that major WWII actions only make sense to simulate at the division level and up... hence the long-awaited CMC add-on to CMBB.

Sure, you might carve off a subset of the action to simulate just the experience of Third Platoon, Easy Company and make a fun game of it. But from the simulation perspective, there's always the question: what's happening to the rest of the company/battalion/regiment on either flank, and how's it going to impact this battle?

[wunwinglow]

CM1 hasn't gone at all. In fact I just reinstalled it on my brand new PC, where the graphics and 'thinking time' are vastly improved. So I play that now, complete with the right-click menu which works sooooooo well......

Tim

[PzKpfwIII]

Originally posted by LongLeftFlank:

And the vast majority of military actions other than spec ops, recce and patrol are conducted at company to battalion (100 - 400 men a side) and larger. In fact, some posters here (e.g. JasonC) have argued that major WWII actions only make sense to simulate at the division level and up... hence the long-awaited CMC add-on to CMBB.

Perhaps you need to actally read those posts. If I have read JasonC correctly, he has consistently maintained that brigade/divisional level games in CMX1 - for those foolish enough to attempt cramming enough battalions onto the same battlespace - do nothing to simulate the logistical and command/control problems inherent to that level of operations, rendering CM in any guise near-useless to portraying combat at any level over and above what it was designed for - company-level.