Von Lewis Posted September 17, 2005 Share Posted September 17, 2005 Will CDV be handling the European distribution for CMx2? I found their censorship of Nazi and SS insignia extremley annoying! :mad: 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrpwase Posted September 17, 2005 Share Posted September 17, 2005 Yes, but other people will have found it appropriate and right. Anyway, there were mods for CM1 that replaced all the Nazi and SS insignia, and I assume some will be made for CMx2. Does it really matter that much? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Major Jerkov Posted September 17, 2005 Share Posted September 17, 2005 Swastikas are so much cooler than crosses. Of course it matters!1! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Von Lewis Posted September 17, 2005 Author Share Posted September 17, 2005 Originally posted by mrpwase: Yes, but other people will have found it appropriate and right. Anyway, there were mods for CM1 that replaced all the Nazi and SS insignia, and I assume some will be made for CMx2. Does it really matter that much? Only to keep the games historical accuracy.It could be argued that the Soviet Union was as ideologically warped as Nazism and caused the death of far more people. Why show the Soviet flag? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew H. Posted September 17, 2005 Share Posted September 17, 2005 Originally posted by Von Lewis: </font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by mrpwase: Yes, but other people will have found it appropriate and right. Anyway, there were mods for CM1 that replaced all the Nazi and SS insignia, and I assume some will be made for CMx2. Does it really matter that much? Only to keep the games historical accuracy.It could be argued that the Soviet Union was as ideologically warped as Nazism and caused the death of far more people. Why show the Soviet flag? </font> 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Von Lewis Posted September 17, 2005 Author Share Posted September 17, 2005 It's not illegal to show Nazi images in the UK. Does a distribution company based in Germany have a right to censor images which will be viewed in another country? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kurtz Posted September 17, 2005 Share Posted September 17, 2005 Yes, of course they have. It's not mandatory to have nazi images in the UK, is it? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert Olesen Posted September 17, 2005 Share Posted September 17, 2005 The real issue is being able to buy the US version of the game via the internet - that wasn't possible with CMBB/CMAK. I had to ask a friend to buy it and arrange for a way to send him something in return. That kind of restriction is not in tune with today's information age. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scipio Posted September 17, 2005 Share Posted September 17, 2005 Yeah, may the powers save the internet! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Von Lewis Posted September 17, 2005 Author Share Posted September 17, 2005 Originally posted by Kurtz: Yes, of course they have. It's not mandatory to have nazi images in the UK, is it? Why do they have a right to remove part of a game because it may upset sensibilities in Germany?Historically Nazism was a fact(you would'nt be playing Combat Mission otherwise!)and is it right to remove that aspect of the Second World War from the game? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Other Means Posted September 17, 2005 Share Posted September 17, 2005 Originally posted by Von Lewis: </font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Kurtz: Yes, of course they have. It's not mandatory to have nazi images in the UK, is it? Why do they have a right to remove part of a game because it may upset sensibilities in Germany?Historically Nazism was a fact(you would'nt be playing Combat Mission otherwise!)and is it right to remove that aspect of the Second World War from the game? </font> 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Von Lewis Posted September 17, 2005 Author Share Posted September 17, 2005 I thought Battlefront designed the game and cdv handled European distribution? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Battlefront.com Posted September 17, 2005 Share Posted September 17, 2005 Yes, but we have to comply with German law. The law is quite specific and we tried to wiggle around it and couldn't. The main problem is that CDV is a German company and therefore is obligated to apply the same standards to the products it exports as it does for the ones distributed within the borders of Germany. It doesn't matter if it isn't against the law in the UK because of this legal fact. Yeah, we weren't happy about it. Yeah, we argued like Hell and did our own research on the German law to find a way around it. But in the end we had to admit that CDV had no choice and so the symbols were removed. We put a patch up on our website to fix this. Technically this was against the law too, but that is certainly splitting hairs and therefore would never likely become a legal issue for CDV. And even if it did, it would most likely never progress further than some nasty letter from German government lawyers. So... in the future if our choice is between making a good deal with a German publisher and losing the Nazi stuff or going with an inferior publisher and keeping them... well... use your imagination which choice we'll make Steve 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Von Lewis Posted September 17, 2005 Author Share Posted September 17, 2005 Thanks for that Steve.Looks like i'll have to fix my freedom of information issues with a patch..... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mattias Posted September 17, 2005 Share Posted September 17, 2005 Originally posted by Von Lewis: A more generous way to look at it would be to say that "Germany" has been taking responsibility for what happened during the nazi period and have taken measures to prevent those events from happening again. As has been pointed out previously on these forums; democracy does not equal complete freedom of speech. And if you think the reactions are heavy handed, consider that not only did these events lead to enormous suffering and to the deaths of millions, it also destroyed the honour and credibility of a whole nation. It left the whole people open for incrimination, no matter how involved each individual had been and delivered a royal kick in the nuts of the national self image. A nation that then had to spend decades jumping through burning hoops to try to regain the trust of others. While at the same time trying, however feebly, to sort out the rotten apples in the own barrel. Communist atrocities cannot be used as a comparison when discussing the ban on nazi symbols, because it is not a matter of comparing the guilt of nations. What is compared is the nations willingness to face and take responsibilty for past wrongs. And at the end of the day the Germans have given it a fair go, whereas most other villains of the world have just sat on their hands and whistled. Not saying it's the best way to go, just that it deserves some sympathy, or at least some reflection on the motives of the legislators. I'm just glad this particular nation didn't turned out any worse traumatised than they did, this time... Eh.. Might have turned out a bit too off topic for this part of the forum, sorry about that M. [ September 17, 2005, 04:18 PM: Message edited by: Mattias ] 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dogface Posted September 17, 2005 Share Posted September 17, 2005 Well said. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WindyCity Posted September 18, 2005 Share Posted September 18, 2005 Originally posted by Battlefront.com: So... in the future if our choice is between making a good deal with a German publisher and losing the Nazi stuff or going with an inferior publisher and keeping them... well... use your imagination which choice we'll make Steve I would go with Matrix That way you keep the Nazi stuff and the publisher is top notch,its a no brainer 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Von Lewis Posted September 18, 2005 Author Share Posted September 18, 2005 Well put Mattias.The German people have made a remarkable contribution in the last sixty years to European Unity, insuring that the nightmare of the Second World War is not repeated. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Battlefront.com Posted September 18, 2005 Share Posted September 18, 2005 Matrix isn't a retail publisher, but rather a smaller version of Battlefront. To get games into retail we both need retail partners. If the retail partner is outside of Germany then they can, in theory, have a German only release that has the illegal stuff removed. However, most publishers rather multi-lingual releases so they can maximize economy of scale issues. If the publisher goes that route then the symbols will have to be removed for everybody no matter where the publisher is located. Steve 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vanir Ausf B Posted September 18, 2005 Share Posted September 18, 2005 Matrix does some retail. I bought a copy of Gary Grigsby's War At War at a retail store earlier this year. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Philippe Posted September 18, 2005 Share Posted September 18, 2005 Perhaps, but do they do it well? The key question is how much shelf space can they control. I suspect someone with an established brand will have more clout with store managers. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Battlefront.com Posted September 18, 2005 Share Posted September 18, 2005 No, Matrix has partnership with people that do retail. So do we. You can get most of our products in retail stores in Europe (including Eastern Europe and former Soviet states), North America, Australia/NZ, and much of Asia. But we aren't the ones putting the products into the stores, our partners are. We could sell our product direct to some speciality shops, but compared to what a retail partner can do for us it simply isn't worth it. They can do a MUCH better job and without any hassle to us. Now, if we had problems with getting a title into retail we might take another look at it, but so far we've had no such problem Steve 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WindyCity Posted September 18, 2005 Share Posted September 18, 2005 Originally posted by Vanir Ausf B: Matrix does some retail. I bought a copy of Gary Grigsby's War At War at a retail store earlier this year. Matrix will only retail BIG movers, the cost of retail per game is crazy. And I did not see CMAK in any store in the states upond release, so whats the deal about big retail publishers. From Battlefront that sounds weird :confused: Some of the all time wargames come out of small publishers, CDV lets get real their LUCKY to have ya 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Battlefront.com Posted September 19, 2005 Share Posted September 19, 2005 The cost of retailing a game to us is zero. Same to Matrix. Someone else pays the bills for it and takes their cut out of the proceeds. Retail and online sales don't overlap much. Well, we've been getting checks for sales of CMAK in US retail, so I'd guess it is selling somewhere. Retail publishers don't tend to send checks for stuff they aren't actually selling Heck, most publishers don't send checks even for the stuff they ARE selling. Lots of crooks out there. Steve 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
melb_will Posted September 19, 2005 Share Posted September 19, 2005 Besides which the Space Lobsters flag is not illegal in Germany so there should be no problem with CDV cheers Will 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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