Will the CMBO engine be upgraded to CMBB level?

[Sgian Dubh]

Hi,

I thought I read that this might happen, but I could not find anything using the search.

I am curious because the Western Front is my favorite, and I would like to be able to continue to use CMBO after being spolied by CMBB's engine.

Alba gu Brath!

[Redwolf]

CMBB does not have a new engine, its is the old engine with improvements. The Western front is announced not to come to this upgraded engine.

The next engine may see Western Front again.

[BeauCoupDinkyDau]

I was hoping CMBO would be patched again with some of CMBBs new features. It's very, very doubtful though. Would be nice though, eh?

If I remember correctly, CMIII (with the new engine) will cover a much more broad time period of the western front. Like the French campagin with possably the African campagin as well; plus covering Overloard to the end of the war again. This is "implied" in some of the things I have read BTS stating. Unless of course it was durring an episode when I had had too much to drink.

[Slapdragon]

I am hoping CM:BO does not get patched. Reason: there is only so much time in the day, and I want the next big thing -- the new killer engine, rather than a rehash of the old. CM:BB is a quantum leap , but the next one will be even better.

[Prinz Eugen]

Originally posted by Vader's Jester:

I was hoping CMBO would be patched again with some of CMBBs new features. It's very, very doubtful though. Would be nice though, eh?

No that would not be nice. What is it with you guys ?!? Are you so much in love with those crappy Shermans or what ? Do a comparison on the performance of the Lend-lease Sherman and the T-34 when CM : BB's out. The results may prove a shock to you...

If I remember correctly, CMIII (with the new engine) will cover a much more broad time period of the western front. Like the French campagin with possably the African campagin as well; plus covering Overloard to the end of the war again. This is "implied" in some of the things I have read BTS stating. Unless of course it was durring an episode when I had had too much to drink.

I reminisce thus; the next engine will cover North Africa and Italy. After that it's early France, then it might be a return to the Normandy, an area that is OVER-emphasized in WW II strategy games. Almost every type of that game focuses on Western Front 1944-45. Sure, when the majority of games producing teams come from the US, this is understandable, in a way. Anyway, you yanks ought to remember that you alone didn't win WW II.

[Prinz Eugen]

Originally posted by Slapdragon:

I am hoping CM:BO does not get patched. Reason: there is only so much time in the day, and I want the next big thing -- the new killer engine, rather than a rehash of the old. CM:BB is a quantum leap , but the next one will be even better.

I couldn't agree more. Surely BTS will use theri valuable time to create a new engine instead of patching the CMBO engine to CMBB standards ? From any point of view this is the way to go. Even if the next engine wouldn't feature Shermans.

But hey, there were Shermans in North Africa. Doh ! Oh well...

[ August 14, 2002, 01:46 PM: Message edited by: Prinz Eugen ]

[Sgian Dubh]

Hmmm. I can agree with the various points raised.

However, I would like to raise a counter-point, which is not specific to CMBO, but to most computer wargames that serially address different theaters.

The vast majority of these all start with the Western Front, which means that this theater of operations always has the "basic" engine and the other theaters have the "improved engines".

I propose that this is because the game developers anticipate that they will get the most sales from a WF game, so they start with that.

So I guess my wish for the future would be to have someone write a wargame in which the WF is the last theater produced, so that it would have the best of all that procedded it in the series.

Don't get me wrong, I love CMBO and I' buy a copy of CMBB the day it becomes possible to do so. I've brought at least 5 people to CMBO and I am very reluctant to recommend computer games to people as a general rule.

I was just hoping to re-play some of the CMBO battles with the new features. If not, then I'll play CMBB until, well, until the next in the series comes out.

Sgian Dubh

[BeauCoupDinkyDau]

WTF Prinz Eugen? :confused:

First of all, I never implied us "Yanks" won the war alone. IMHO, it was the masses of Russian troops combind with Brit and "Yank" bombing of German industrial targets that crippled the German war machine and allowed the world to defeat the Nazis. And, um, us "Yanks" whipped the Japinese almost single handedly.

Second, BTS is a US company, so it makes sense that they mostly produce games based on the western front (Kind of like how IL-2's creators are from Russia-they understand thier own homeland's war stories and units better than a forginer would). If you don't like these kinds of games, don't buy them! As a "Yank," I have always been much more interested in the epic battles of the east front. I don't want CMBO patched because I was born in the US! I would like to see an upgrade because CMBO is an awesome game!! I mostly agree with the others though: I would like to see the next best thing insted of a patch to an old game. I idea just sounds cool.

[WWB]

Guys, remember that if they do the med, including Dragoon and Northern Italy in 45, then one has most of the tools that would be needed to do any CMBO battle.

WWB

[Marlow]

Originally posted by Prinz Eugen:

What is it with you guys ?!? Are you so much in love with those crappy Shermans or what ? Do a comparison on the performance of the Lend-lease Sherman and the T-34 when CM : BB's out. The results may prove a shock to you...

[edited because it really wasn't as bad as I thought it was].

OK, now to the topic at hand. It seems to me (as admittedly a non-programmer) that an updated version of CMBO would be a quick and easy thing to do (and probably pretty profitable). After all, the basic engine is already in place for CMBB, the models for many of the vehicles are done (CMBB has (I assume) the entire German OOB, as well as lend/lease Sherman, Stuart, churchill, M3 halftrack, etc...), the research for unit composition is already done in the original CMBO effort. I certainly would purchase such an update, as the Western front interests me more than the Eastern.

[ August 14, 2002, 03:06 PM: Message edited by: Marlow ]

[MikeyD]

A CMBO rewrite would be nice if we could list some major flaws in the game that need to be corrected... Which we can't. A CMBO rewrite would just involve prettier pictures and perhaps more Brit armored car models (my beloved Staghound for instance). Pluse the newfangled CMBB commands and penetration models... Hmmm, I'm starting to talk myself into wanting a rewrite!

But before I get carried away I should try imagining Italian tankettes versus Brit Crusaders in the Western desert, or Panther turret bunker fortifications along the Gothic Line to storm. That did it. The CMBO rewrite idea is fading into the background again. First there was CMBO, Then CMBB, then CM-Med theater, and then... THE WORLD!

[Schrullenhaft]

Originally posted by wwb_99

..remember that if they do the med, including Dragoon and Northern Italy in 45, then one has most of the tools that would be needed to do any CMBO battle.

My thoughts exactly. You'll have every nationality that participated in NWE in Italy (though I don't think there were any French armored divisions in Italy/Southern France) and I'm not sure what vehicles that were present in NWE wouldn't be present in Italy '44-'45. You should be able to recreate almost anything that happened in CMBO with CM3, with the possible exceptions of Volkstrumm, Polish paratroopers & French armored units .

[ August 14, 2002, 03:23 PM: Message edited by: Schrullenhaft ]

[Vergeltungswaffe]

Stop thinking about CMBO upgrades. Will not happen. The western front will no doubt be revisited well down the road, when we are playing 6 on 6 TCP/IP games with relative spotting and command/control over just your own company.

In the meantime, I love the North African front about as much as the war in the east, so I hope CM 3 will be a relatively short wait after CMBB. There are not too many more units to research, though the terrain, dust effects, etc, obviously will take some work.

I would rather not wait until the engine re-write for it, but BFC will have to make that decision on a financial basis. If CMBB sells as well as they hope (and it damn well better), they may decide to do the engine re-write next. But, if they decide to fill the company coffers a little more, bring on CM North Africa!

[MikeyD]

I've always been a bit afraid of the much-discussed "engine rewrite". Too often My poor old mac and I have been left in the dust as game hardware demands outpace my ability (and wilingness) to constantly upgrade-upgrade-upgrade.

Yeh, yeh, I know. The march of progress and all that. I just want to say it's a MASSIVE relief to know that a gigantic game like CMBB (or CM:BB as they're calling it lately) will STILL run on my old machine without so much as a hiccup.

Hats off the Battlefront.com. You guys are magicians!

[Mattias]

Originally posted by Prinz Eugen:

Depending on what you mean the shock could very well be on you. In most cases I would take a Sherman 75 before a T-34/76 and a Sherman 76 before a T-34/85.

The perspective is distorted because the T-34 was a menace in 41-42 whereas the Sherman was the whipping boy in 43-44. It would have been the same if the Sherman came first and the T-34 last... Well, almost.

M.

[Michael Dorosh]

There is a prize for the first person to post with what a Sgian Dubh is, and in what article of underwear it is commonly worn....

[Bluefish]

Originally posted by Prinz Eugen:

No that would not be nice. What is it with you guys ?!? Are you so much in love with those crappy Shermans or what ?

No, we just like using the good guys!

[YankeeDog]

Originally posted by Michael Dorosh:

There is a prize for the first person to post with what a Sgian Dubh is, and in what article of underwear it is commonly worn....

Sgian Dubh: The famed Scottish Highlander "Boot knife", or weapon of last resort. Usually a small (4-7") double-edged blade with a horn or antler grip. In practice, the Sgian Dubh was often the salvaged remains of the broken blade of a Dirk (which in turn was often the salvaged remains of a larger blade).

I'm not sure of the answer to the second part of your question. The highlanders didn't wear socks; they wore foot wrappings if anything. I guess if you consider foot wrappings underwear, then that would be my answer. AFAIK they were also famous for not wearing anything under their kilts either.

Do I win something??

[John D Salt]

Originally posted by Michael Dorosh:

There is a prize for the first person to post with what a Sgian Dubh is, and in what article of underwear it is commonly worn....

It's a dirk (Jockanese pudding-jabber) and you'd wear it in your hose tops. I'm not sure if they count as underwear, but I can't seem to think of any other underwear worn by Jocks. Not even Jockey shorts.

All the best,

John.

[John D Salt]

Originally posted by Sgian Dubh:

[snips]

The vast majority of these all start with the Western Front, which means that this theater of operations always has the "basic" engine and the other theaters have the "improved engines".

[snips]

So I guess my wish for the future would be to have someone write a wargame in which the WF is the last theater produced, so that it would have the best of all that procedded it in the series.

A nice idea, but I can see the game-mnakers being a little concerned at the possible size of their initial revenue stream. How many people would be in the market for a CM-like tactical game covering, say, the Gran Chaco war, or the Nomonohan and Lake Hassan battles? And how much harder would these be to research?

All the best,

John.

[MikeyD]

It's my humble (if hare-brained) opinion that the CM engine has practically limitless expansion possibilities, well beyond the scope of WWII.

Imagine:

"CM:Bosnia Crisis" (CM:BC)

"CM:Suez to Beirut" (CM:S-B

"CM:Spanish Civil War" (CM:SCW)

Hey, why stick to modern stuff?

"CM:Peloponnesian war 450BC" (CM:450)

Not so sure about the last one. Kind'a hard to model those giant trireme battles off the coast.

[Schoerner]

Originally posted by Mattias:

</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Prinz Eugen:

Depending on what you mean the shock could very well be on you. In most cases I would take a Sherman 75 before a T-34/76 and a Sherman 76 before a T-34/85.

The perspective is distorted because the T-34 was a menace in 41-42 whereas the Sherman was the whipping boy in 43-44. It would have been the same if the Sherman came first and the T-34 last... Well, almost.

M.</font>

Have to agree, Mattias.

Ofcourse the T34 was a very good tank, but we should keep in mind, that when the T34 came out, it mostly had to face PzIV only and even PzIII.

When Tiger and Panther became available in acceptable numbers, the T34 had a hard stand.

On the western front, the Shermans had to face them all the time. Maybe therefore they don't have such a "glorious" image like the T34.

Wstern vs. Eastern front:

I'm more interested in the eastern front, too.

IMHO the vehemence of the fight on the eastern front is hardly comparable to the war on the western front (i mean the fight between troops).

I'm aware of, that for US-, UK-,.. players, the western front has more priority, but from a historical point of view, i don't find it necessary to adapt CMBO to CMBB standards.

The much better solution would be, that BFC invests all it's energy in a new engine and afterwards maybe returns to the western front.

[ August 14, 2002, 05:19 PM: Message edited by: Schoerner ]

[MrSpkr]

Heheh.

After playing theh beta version at Seimer's, it amuses me that Prinz Eugene thinks the T-34 is an uber tank.

I can just picture him sitting at his computer, shouting MOVE DANG IT MOVE! SHOOT, YOU IDIOTS! then kicking his monitor into dust when the 38th 50mm shell finally destroys the T-34 (or encourages the crew to abandon).

Steve

[Prinz Eugen]

Originally posted by MrSpkr:

Heheh.

After playing theh beta version at Seimer's, it amuses me that Prinz Eugene thinks the T-34 is an uber tank.

I can just picture him sitting at his computer, shouting MOVE DANG IT MOVE! SHOOT, YOU IDIOTS! then kicking his monitor into dust when the 38th 50mm shell finally destroys the T-34 (or encourages the crew to abandon).

Steve

My dreams are all shattered !!!

But it doesn't take 38 50 mm shells to knock out a Sherman, now does it ?

[Runyan99]

Last I heard, the BTS crew was worried about their aging graphics engine, and had resolved to do the engine rewrite after CMBB.

This is both good and bad. It means that CM3 covering Italy and Africa is going to be a huge leap forward over CMBB...but it also means we are going to have to wait three years for it to come out. Rewriting an engine takes time, I imagine. Just tweaking the CMBO engine has taken them two years.

In regards to upgrading CMBO, I used to advocate it, but I now see that moving forward with each new iteration of the CM series is the best way to proceed.

For my own part, if CM3 covers Italy '43-'45, I will not miss France '44-'45.