BFC - Whats the next big thing ??

[Voxman]

This poster is totally out to lunch !

Originally posted by Midnight Warrior:

My thought is that they might best split their forces and have the code hackers (Steve?) work on the engine rewrite while the modelers build CMBO models for the CMBB engine. Then perhaps they could turn out a CMBB'ized version of CMBO in say nine months to a year followed by a whole new engine that possibly covers a new theater in say another year. The idea is NOT to try to retro fit the CMBB code back into CMBO but rather add the CMBO units and terrain features into CMBB. That should require less coding and more modelling. I think that the reworked "CMBO" would be very appealing to the CM community even if it had no new features other than including the units and terrain features covered in CMBO with the CMBB features (I know I would like it!!) It could leverage off of the huge amount of scenarios developed and everyone could have the fun of replaying those old scenarios with the CMBB features. And not having to wait another two years for the next version would be nice for both the gamers (the last wait was awfully long) and BTS (from a cash flow perspective).

[deanco]

A cross between Advance Wars and CMBO, with killer graphics.

[MikeyD]

A dissenting opinion.

I think bringing out the new engine rewrite with a warmed-over CMBO would be a big mistake, business-wise. They'd be replowing an already-tilled field. There's a whole world out there beyond Western Europe 44-45 and I can think of several conflicts that I'd me MORE than pleased to see covered CM-style.

BFC has put themselves into a bit of a box, strategically. Everybody's already wondering what the 'Next Big Thing' is going to be, but BFC's next product is going to be compared against THE ENTIRE EASTERN FRONT! How can they top that? Most other conflicts will seem rather... parochial in comparison, unless they give you the chance to drop a couple tactical nukes during gameplay!

[KG_Jag]

MW--my estimation is that the current hi-res mods and related mod program (e.g. CMMOS) have taken CMBO about as far as it can go from a visual perspective. More would almost certainly involve the game engine, which amounts to dropping the CMBB engine into CMBO [see other comments on this thread].

[ October 03, 2002, 03:15 PM: Message edited by: jagcommander ]

[Herr Oberst]

Hrmmm...

Correct for the Borg spotting in the engine.

We got the bigger maps going from CMBO to CMBB. Next iteration, can we go from 20 terrain levels to 40 or so. I have a battle being worked on that requires 70 meters in elevation changes from low to high, and 5 meter bumps feel and look too big, and they're awfully hard to hide in thosw wide open spaces.

Not saying that Charles hasn't already done a fine job, but there's always more room for AI improvement. What about "doctrine-based" AI's?

[Sgt. Schultz]

I would like to see CM Korea, then CM Middle East(1960s or so, Six Day War and so on), then CM Fulda to France(1970s Soviets vs NATO)

The loss rates of equipment to advanced weapons would be higher of course in the 70s, but it would still be do-able with sufficient reinforcements. Yeah, a Warthog may be able to chew up an entire armored column, but a few shoulder-fired SA-7s could eat his lunch quite quickly too. I would love to see a SAM track fire at off map planes. Maybe one could purchase (the dedicated use of) the Divison's fire-finder radar to find and counter-battery enemy arty. Watching a wave of BMPs and T-72s wade into a nest of TOW missiles and Bradleys would be nice.

Korea would probably be easier to code, but WWIII would be a lot more fun. Just imagine .. play TOO well and get a few major victories in a row in an operation .... and trigger a tactical nuclear response. You lose for doing too well.

[ October 03, 2002, 04:16 PM: Message edited by: Sgt. Schultz ]

[Specs]

I'd like to see the lads license out the game engine next year to allow the development of all of the above while they spend the next 3 years working on a gnu engine that will really knock our socks off, and which will cover all of Europe and perhaps North Africa, as well.

And I want Betty Grable on the splash page.

[Schrullenhaft]

Unfortunately licensing out the engine is an unrealistic venture at this point for BTS/BFC. Charles is the only one actually coding the game (basically put). If they were to waste the time attempting to market the engine (which takes an effort itself) they would have to spend the time and resources to support other developers working with it. That would mean that the next CM version would be delayed another year at least while documentation and support is performed for any developer who wished to license the engine.

To top it off the current engine is not easily adaptable to other periods. At least not as easily as some people (other developers) would hope it to be. If BTS/BFC decided they wanted to market an engine that would probably have to wait until after the engine rewrite for something that would be more marketable to another developer and then spend the time to document the entire engine.

Basically the next project for BTS/BFC is the engine rewrite. What product we'll see next that will utilize that engine is up for (internal) debate. However you can be assured at this point that it will be WWII and it won't take place in the Pacific or CBI theaters (the last time such a topic got a response from Steve).

[aka_tom_w]

Originally posted by Pfc Joe:

I would suggest to the Powers That Be @ Battlefront that the next expansion should be The Whole Enchilada WWII. All Units/All Camos(Winter/Desert/Jungle et al)/All Theatres/All Times. Buff up CMBB to CMWWII ! And make the terrain and animations even better. And make the Interface even more user friendly. Add in Campaign potentials (from a strategy map to the battlefield with Supply and experience accounted for). And... well... just more! More I say! More!

Istill like this idea

Hell! they have 2.5 years (3, if they push it) AND they have already done half the work.

I say CM II: "The Whole Enchilada WWII" !!!

(ok not the Pacific)

Why not all of CMBO AND all of CMBB (units and terrain wise) and then add all of the Med, North Africa AND the early war years (German Blitzkrieg of Europe), and use the NEW CMII engine with new features like:

* NO more Borg Spotting (Relative Spotting)

* Full movie replay

* Roster (for those would think they need it)

* Multi-turreted vehicles like the Allied Grant and Lee

* Amphibious units

* Dynamic lighting effects

What new (must have) features did I miss?

oh oh AND AND don't forget this...

Double the price to $75 US (since they already have us ALL hooked on the CM drug CMBO and CMBB were really just "starter" drugs, they will have not problem doubling their price for there next offering )

-tom w

[ October 03, 2002, 09:23 PM: Message edited by: aka_tom_w ]

[wodasini88]

I'd personally like to see a vietnam version of CM. I'd love to listen to ride of the valkyries while attacking the NVA with my huey's . I actually made a vietnam total conversion for myth2.

[Nippy]

"1 - Blitzkreig - Dunkirk ?? Could be a bit similar to BO, but at least the Dutch and Belgians could come out to play with the Poles, French and BEF ... (Thats British Expeditionary Force, for all our US friends )"

BTS could just about do that now by releasing a "Battle of France" add on. Think about it, they already have the French, British, and German voices from CMBO and CMBB, not to mention with the release of CMBB you get:

Various early war attack aircraft for the Germans

Early War MG34

7.9mm German AT rifle

PZI

PZII

37mm armed PZIII

Short 75mm armed PZIV

Short 75mm armed STUGIII

And there are a good number of units for the French and BEF if you take the unit data from various countires in CMBB.

R-35

H-39

Somua-35

Matilda II

BOYS AT rifle

At the very least I'm sure some 3rd party Mod makers could come up with a "1940" campaign.

[aka_tom_w]

Originally posted by aka_tom_w:

</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Pfc Joe:

I would suggest to the Powers That Be @ Battlefront that the next expansion should be The Whole Enchilada WWII. All Units/All Camos(Winter/Desert/Jungle et al)/All Theatres/All Times. Buff up CMBB to CMWWII ! And make the terrain and animations even better. And make the Interface even more user friendly. Add in Campaign potentials (from a strategy map to the battlefield with Supply and experience accounted for). And... well... just more! More I say! More!

Istill like this idea

Hell! they have 2.5 years (3, if they push it) AND they have already done half the work.

I say CM II: "The Whole Enchilada WWII" !!!

(ok not the Pacific)

Why not all of CMBO AND all of CMBB (units and terrain wise) and then add all of the Med, North Africa AND the early war years (German Blitzkrieg of Europe), and use the NEW CMII engine with new features like:

* NO more Borg Spotting (Relative Spotting)

* Full movie replay

* Roster (for those would think they need it)

* Multi-turreted vehicles like the Allied Grant and Lee

* Amphibious units

* Dynamic lighting effects

What new (must have) features did I miss?

oh oh AND AND don't forget this...

Double the price to $75 US (since they already have us ALL hooked on the CM drug CMBO and CMBB were really just "starter" drugs, they will have not problem doubling their price for there next offering )

-tom w</font>

[Bruno Weiss]

NO no, ever one has it wrong. The Pacific, that's where its at boys, the Pacific!

[Dschugaschwili]

Originally posted by aka_tom_w:

Why not all of CMBO AND all of CMBB (units and terrain wise) and then add all of the Med, North Africa AND the early war years (German Blitzkrieg of Europe), and use the NEW CMII engine with new features like:

* NO more Borg Spotting (Relative Spotting)

* Full movie replay

* Roster (for those would think they need it)

* Multi-turreted vehicles like the Allied Grant and Lee

* Amphibious units

* Dynamic lighting effects

What new (must have) features did I miss?

* change PBEM format to only require two e-mails per turn

* Realistic modelling of visibility at night

[edit] * collision detection for all projectiles, even those that would hit

Dschugaschwili

[ October 17, 2002, 07:51 AM: Message edited by: Dschugaschwili ]

[Epée]

It's got to be CM II - Western Theatre of Operations.

From the Spanish civil war to a fantasy USA x Soviet Union in 1945/46.

Including the Med and Nth Africa.

I'm serious.

Epée

[cris]

I like the CMBB features lots but the russian front is my favorite theatre. I prefer the western front.

I would like to see CMBO updated as suggested by others or the furtile crescent (southern Europe and Noth Africa) or perhaps even both combined.

Matilda 2s Matilda 2s Matilda 2s

[kipanderson]

Hi,

My vote would go for a Cold War version of CM. 1970s would just hit the spot. Fulda Gap and all that stuff.

Great times….

All the best,

Kip.

PS. I also think there would be more money in Cold War game than the desert. But have no real idea.

[dd]

SFO 39-45

(Special Forces Operations)

Seaborne Commando raids, Long range desert patrols. 101 small scale ops where the odds are always stacked against you!

.... ah what joy.

[ October 17, 2002, 08:40 AM: Message edited by: dd ]

[TSword]

IMO CM3 again should portray the Eastern Front, nothing comes only remotely close to it in ferocity, scale, changing luck and importance. Add to that the Western Front 1944 quite similar as in CMBO and everybody is happy.

Blitzkrieg and North Africa are bad choices, because they were such one sided affairs. For the first, the main problem were coordination to keep up the marching speed the enemy beaten from the beginning. In North Africa the Desert was Tankground in the first place with vast distances covered by relatively small units, very bad for batt-sized battles on a 3 x 3 km tile....

- Most important issue for CM3 is to allow the scenario creator more control of AI controlled forces so more complex battles are possible.

- An API-set for op- or Campaign-level extensions

- Dynamic lighting twofold:

1. As visual effect and more important

2. Integration into fire- and detection

algorithms

- More acurate Dust-effects

- Turret down positions for AVFs for recon,

spotting

- Dismounting crewmembers also on AVFs by user

request

- Horses and bikes

- OOB-Tree in the userinterface for easier and

faster unit manipulations both during gameplay

and Scenario editing (coupled with AI-guiding

commands and the like)

Greets

Daniel

[desertrat1943]

I vote for the full monty. WWII total, all theaters, all units, everywhere. If possible I'd strech the boundaries even to include the Spanish civil war and the Korean war (which were fought with units not really different from those fighting respectively in 1940 and 1945), and even the first arab-Israeli war.

That should not be difficult to do. Use the CMBB engine, import all vehicles and stats from CMBO, add a ton more of stats and voila'.

[aka_tom_w]

Originally posted by desertrat1943:

I vote for the full monty. WWII total, all theaters, all units, everywhere. If possible I'd strech the boundaries even to include the Spanish civil war and the Korean war (which were fought with units not really different from those fighting respectively in 1940 and 1945), and even the first arab-Israeli war.

That should not be difficult to do. Use the CMBB engine, import all vehicles and stats from CMBO, add a ton more of stats and voila'.

Sure why not?

Hire a few more guys, or clone Charles a few times

Give them say 2.5 - 3 years development time

and voila:

"the full monty. WWII total, all theaters, all units, everywhere"

Why not :confused:

(semi-joking)

-tom w

[ October 17, 2002, 12:29 PM: Message edited by: aka_tom_w ]

[aka_tom_w]

Originally posted by Dschugaschwili:

</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by aka_tom_w:

Why not all of CMBO AND all of CMBB (units and terrain wise) and then add all of the Med, North Africa AND the early war years (German Blitzkrieg of Europe), and use the NEW CMII engine with new features like:

* NO more Borg Spotting (Relative Spotting)

* Full movie replay

* Roster (for those would think they need it)

* Multi-turreted vehicles like the Allied Grant and Lee

* Amphibious units

* Dynamic lighting effects

What new (must have) features did I miss?

* change PBEM format to only require two e-mails per turn

* Realistic modelling of visibility at night

[edit] * collision detection for all projectiles, even those that would hit

Dschugaschwili</font>

[Andrew H.]

2.5 - 3 years is a long way off; I think people will be looking for some West Front goodness by then. I'm not sure how great the market would be for an early war or Afrika Korps standalone game, though (although I would buy it). So maybe CM II should be WWII from Poland through France, Norway, Africa, Greece, Italy, and then back to France again.

Alternatively - if the game allowed for easy updates, CMII could initially cover BO territory, with add-on pack(s) available for Early War and the Med.

Then take two weeks off and start work on the EF version.

[aka_tom_w]

Originally posted by Andrew Hedges:

2.5 - 3 years is a long way off; I think people will be looking for some West Front goodness by then.

I'm already missing all the COOL new features of CMBB in CMBO (which I thought was a REALLY great game to begin with!).

I second that, there WILL be a hunger and need for the ALL the latest Combat Mission features found in the CMII re-write in the Western Front ETO D-Day to Berlin 2-3 years from now. I have no doubt about it!

How could they deny us??? All the unit stats models and textures for ALL of CMBO and CMBB are already available to them, will they have to completely re-invent the wheel to include all the terrain and units from CMBO and CMBB into CMII with all its potential new features??? :confused:

-tom w

[ October 17, 2002, 12:48 PM: Message edited by: aka_tom_w ]

[akdavis]

Ideally, I would like to see the East Front plus the West Front from Sicily on. Just don't leave out the East Front! You already have me hooked and it'd suck to go back to the done-so-many-damn-times Normandy campaign. Perhaps it could be the war against Germany from 41 on, but I think there would be some serious limitations with depicting the Desert War.

Stay away from the Pacific! I don't want to fight a bloody, simple-minded war of brutal attrition! I want maneuver and tactical possibilities, not the slow eradication of an entrenched, stationary enemy through the use of overwhelmingly unbalanced firepower.