Would you pay for a special terrain Add On - Berlin? Grain Elevator?

[Michael Dorosh]

Secret Weapons of the Luftwaffe had add ons that you had to purchase which had special coding to add different units to the game - ie the P-38 Lightning and some of the exotic aircraft. They did not affect the regular game play, just provided a special option for those that wanted it.

I was wondering what the consumer base would feel about doing the same thing for CMBB, but not for units (no, not gonna mention the Maus) but with terrain?

For example, a Berlin addon available for low cost either for direct download, or purchase via internet, which would have special coding for new terrain types - ie the Brandenburg Gate, the Reichstag, etc. Multi-player would require both players to have purchased and installed the add-on, which would be no different than a regular patch.

I can imagine it might not be seen to be worth the time and effort from a coding standpoint, but thought I would throw the idea out. Would be neat to see some of the famous buildings like the Kremlin, the GRAIN ELEVATOR in Stalingrad, the Führer Bunker,the FlaK towers in Berlin, etc. get a bit of "special treatment". Would it even be possible to code in, say, a five story building without messing around with all the other code?

[Vanir Ausf B]

No.

[ParaBellum]

No, I wouldn't pay for such an addon. To be honest, I really don't care if there is the Reichstag or some Flakbunkers modeled in Berlin, or the grain silo in Stalingrad.

I'd rather pay for something like the mega-campaigns for SPWAW. With detailed documentation like pics, background and historical documents.

[Le Tondu]

Um, no thank you. I wouldn't pay extra for that.

I would however pay extra for CMBO to be refitted to CMBB standards. I just like the West European theater of operations.

[benpark]

I actually would. Particularly if it were coupled with a SPWAW Mega Campaign type thingamajig. I am really looking forward to see if the new CMBB terrain "Regions" will include different building tiles and the like. I think that having a set of more historical buildings (though other terrains might bebefit as well) would only add to the explorations of how particular battles were different from each other.

I just can't stand the abstraction of having the tractor factory be, say, 3 tiles large. Specificity has it's place.

[Joseph Porta]

What Parabellum said.

[Xavier]

No, I would prefer to have buildings with cellars, fortified building, multiple turreted tanks, politic commissars, multiplayer games...

[Diceman]

What Le Tondu and Xavier said. Now I may change my mind once I get my hands on CMBB, but bringing CMBO up to CMBB standards is #1 on my willing to pay for list. More realistic building code including cellars and tougher buildings comes second. Multi turret tanks is another willing to pay for upgrade. Unique buildings just don't get very high on my play enhancement list.

[dalem]

No. I want CM version II as soon as is BFC-ally possible.

-dale

[OGSF]

What Le Tondu, Xavia and Diceman said. I would like CM:BO brought up to CM:BBs' code level. I would pay for that upgrade.

[ August 18, 2002, 11:11 PM: Message edited by: OGSF ]

[Michael Dorosh]

Let us presume that it won't impact whether or not CMBO is upgraded/CM II comes out. Pretend they got some new programmers.

[Flesh]

Hmmm, what if BTS was to add some kind of "plugin" system for these kinds of mods (as in apps like "Winamp", "Photoshop" etc)? Third party modders/coders could create them and then either sell them or give them away. Also, this would free up BTS from having to code these mods themselves. Anybody willing to pay for a smarter AI player that had been created this way? Maybe even one that allowed you to tweak all of the facets of it's gameplay?

[kunstler]

I'd buy it.

Then again I'm on a mac so my gaming dollars don't have as many options. But atmosphere like that'd be worth having, if doable.

kunstler

[Guest Mike]

What he said.

That's what you get for scoring 158 on a net IQ test!!!!

[dalem]

Originally posted by Michael Dorosh:

Let us presume that it won't impact whether or not CMBO is upgraded/CM II comes out. Pretend they got some new programmers.

Oh. In that case I'm still not interested. It's not worth extra money to me to be able to set ultra-rare landmarks in a battle. Likewise, it's not important to me to be able to set up one particular piece of special terrain for one particular battle out of the whole war. Abstractions work fine for me in most cases.

-dale

[Prinz Eugen]

No. By the time fighting reached Berlin it was over. I woulnd't use my money on a add-on about a battle where 15- and 60-year old Volksgrenadiers fight Soviet divisions on a front of 2 kilometres...

Otherwise the add-on idea is good ! Such a add-on would be better off to be placed in Stalingrad, IMO.

[lcm1947]

I would but I've got to add only after they upgrade CMBO first. Sorry I know you said to forget upgradeing CMBO but had to add that in.

[Kuma of Finland]

What is this all worry about BFC's ability to take care of their business? I believe that they know best how to use their time and on which projects to use time.

I would consider it whining if people came to me saying: "Please do this A project only if you still can accomplish this B project but don't do that until you've finished C project. And do this all in half of the time. And you wont get any extra money from me!" Oh, sorry, I don't mean my bosses, I'll surely do what they say

Please, let BFC people do their business as they see fit. I believe they wont need any extra whining on top of their tasks, just extra bucks

And about the original question: if paying makes it possible to get the plug-ins/add-ons, I would pay, yes. Better choice would be - of course - to get it free

/kuma

[Warphead]

Add-ons are possible for single player games and tools. But it does not work for multiplayer games with PBEM and TCP/IP. You need the same add-ons your opponent(s) use. And if somebody does not want to pay money for a Flakbunker or the 32MB download of the Stalingrad add-on is too huge for his modem then you can not play him...

[ August 19, 2002, 08:40 AM: Message edited by: Warphead- ]

[Ozzy]

Basically, I like the idea very much. But

a) I think I wouldn't PAY for it

what actually shall I pay for?

rubble/debris?

I think some factory buildings with the appropriate facade mod would work for my in most instances.

Usually I have a glance at the entire beauty of the CM terrain at the beginning of a battle and shout some decent "woot"s. But after fighting started, I do no longer care much about terrain details.

[Panzer76]

No.

[von Paulus]

Pay ? no !!!

Just donwload it !!!

[MikeyD]

There's a small problem with your plan. Plug-in elements would mean non-compatible versions of the game (one player would have a grain elevator and his opponent wouldn't). This is the same problem with an old idea of plug-in vehicles in CMBO. One guy has a Staghound while another doesn't.

What COULD be done (theoretically) would be cosmetic upgrades to existing structures. Patch 1.1 could have much fancier building polygons, Patch 1.2 could have a redone Marder, for example. Strictly speaking, that would keep the game compatible.

Not sure about charging for these patches though. Old-time CMBOers got used to downloading the free patches and improvements after CMBO first came out. It'd be hard to swithc to a pay-to-play system.

[Michael Dorosh]

No way in hell am I advocating patches you need to pay for, sorry for the confusion. I had thought this was a straight forward, hypothetical question which we could have some fun with, but I see I was wrong. Maybe we should forget I mentioned it.

Obviously, both players would need this add-on for them to play PBEM (duh). How is that even remotely a problem, if the market exists where enough players want to go to the trouble and expense to adopt these changes? Within that group, they can play each other.

Personally, large buildings like the Grain Elevator or Reichstag of FlaK Towers would be just chrome in any event (I can't see that assaulting the elevator would make for a very good or balanced or interesting game, except maybe against the AI), but those were the only examples I could come up with off the top of my head.

Better examples from the Western Front come to mind - Arnhem Bridge with the large approach ramps, Remagen Bridge with the concrete gun towers and railroad tunnel, the Valkhof in Nijmegen, the fortress at Eben Emael (1940), the Normandy landing beaches, etc.

To be worth it to me, there would need to be a few dozen of these historic terrain bits from across the front - with the ability to use them in the scenario editor. The scenario editor would have to have the "new" terrain very clearly marked so that the player would know to indicate in the briefing whether or not the add-on was a prerequisite for anyone playing that scenario because of the inclusion of new terrain.

All of which might merely serve to fractionalize the game playing membership, which may indeed have been a problem with, say, ASL - certainly with the earlier SL series it was in any event.

At any rate, use of such if it was available would be optional. I agree that a free distribution of such goodies would be preferable, maybe even part of an official (free) patch should time allow. From a business standpoint, though, one always feels ripped off if they are offered extra stuff after the fact and ask themselves "why didn't they just include it in the game to begin with"? By using truly arcane terrain types, you avoid that question at the same time as increasing the appeal among the uber-grogs. To the majority, I am sure the appeal of fighting up the steps of the real Reich Chancellery would be nil. Those types need not respond to this thread any further.

[MikeyD]

I'm reminded of an old CMBB 'wish list' that was on the board some months back. I do admit I would've liked to have seen stockade fencing, lamp posts and telephone poles, civilian sedans, airfields with air planes, fortress complexes, etc. etc. etc.

Oh yeh, and I would liked it to still run on my 300mhz mac G3, too.

I've seen some pc games that let you patch-in new helecopters and tanks, etc. It's a nifty feature, though the games themselves didn't seem to be very interesting to play.