SNEAK PREVIEW

[phancucchin@aol.com]

It's actually kind of insulting to be treated like grade school girls who couldn't possibly handle "the truth." Maybe we should just wait for GI Combat to come out

truth is.. i very happy to hear about the CMBB game method improvements! machine gun method sounds like realism and some fun too.

[Runyan99]

How about the new textured tracers? Somebody has already mentioned that there were new textured tracers, but we have not gotten to see them yet. How would you describe them.

How about a little info on the factories? You cannot post a screen shot, but you can describe them, can't you? We still do not know what the bloody things look like, or how they are put together.

[Barrold]

Well I am back home after a three hour drive (including a stop for dinner) and ready to give my considered opinion on what I saw today. The drive home was conducive to brewing even more excitement as the smell of powder and flash of shells was in the air from all the fireworks displays I saw from the highway.

First I would like to again thank rune for hosting the event. It was great to meet him and the others that showed up. I would suggest Lord Dragon marry his girlfriend as soon as possible. Any women who can give you a good game and wants to stay for more turns than you before having to be dragged off to other activities is a keeper.

I brought my laptop and CM:BO to compare games side by side. The first noticeable aspect in this comparison is of course how much better CM:BB looks. It appears to be more of a difference from a nicely mod-ed CMBO than the mods are over the original graphics. This doesn't really do justice to the crisp and clear environment that made the old game look almost cartoonish. The improvement in appearance is much greater than I had anticipated being possible with what was supposed to just be an evolution not a revolution.

We definitely saw a work in progress, but as was stated, the specific features we are not supposed to mention are sure-fire enhancements to the immersion and environment of the game. I would love to let the cat out of the bag, but as we agreed to secrecy, I won't.

I understand that what we saw may have things subtracted or modified and besides, it is cool to discover these things while exploring the battlefield. Trust me, the "holy crap, did you see that?" rush will countermand any doubts as to the reasons for secrecy. These features zing up the neato-factor certainly, but they are excellent surprises outside of other new functions accurately provided within the CMBB FAQ.

Gameplay retains the soul of the original with a wide variety of tweaks and additions that really flesh out the vision admirably. Charles and Steve have taken the lessons learned from CM:BO and listened to their customers to wring out a whole new level of play. Whatever a new engine brings about in future iterations of the CM franchise, there should not be any legitimate consideration of CM:BB as a mere repackaging of old material. Everyone at BFC has done stellar work at embedding obvious measures of quality into this product. Kudos are already deserved for your efforts and this taste has me frothing for another fix. I can't wait!

Consider some of the things recalled from a scenario rune let me go through after everyone else had to go in order to show how extreme FOW works.

The big news is that the attacker is not going to have it so easy any longer. Machineguns and AT guns bring whole six-packs of whoop-ass to the table now. The tactics that will be needed to take advantage of them and also defeat them will require a truer application of realistic tactical doctrine than was previously the case.

I have a screen shot saved by rune of an 88mm AT gun with 10 vehicle kills and 10 infantry kills! It was under serious showers of heavy shells but came through it honorably. Maligned in the past perhaps, but I was shown why these guns were truly feared for their ability to reach out and touch someone in a way that really ruins their whole day.

Machineguns come into their own with the adaption of many of the suggestions listed on this board in past discussions. Anyone who treats these units as they were in CM:BO is going to be writing a great deal of letters to the cyber parents of the men under their command.

As I drove I was envisioning setting up scenarios involving desperate against-all-odds defenses and heroic stands against hordes of vicious, unrelenting attackers. CM:BB seems at this point to be able to bring this and more.

Bottom line...if you liked CM:BO in any small way and have the slightest inkling of an iota of interest or knowledge about the East Front, YOU ARE GOING TO FREAKIN' LOVE CM:BB!!!!

So overall I enjoyed the afternoon.

Let me know if you have any questions and I will try and answer within the constraints requested by BFC.

BDH

[Wisbech_lad]

Question on platoon handling of tanks. How big an impact is it if your command tank is knocked out? Look forward to having vehicle morale factors.

Oh, almost forgot. Are there any horses?

[hellfish]

Originally posted by Berlichtingen:

I see history does not necessarily repeat itself...

Rune did this for CM:BO when it was still in beta (I didn't make it out there then either). What lacked then was the seeming bad blood about it.

I was the only (I think) person who showed up for Rune's sneak peek of CMBO. Rune is truly a generous man and I am sorry I couldn't make it out there today (would have brought beer again )) but I hope you guys all had fun.

[Barrold]

Losing the platoon leader does indeed greatly effect the surviving tanks in the unit. I suppose the effect is greater with the greener the unit, but I don't have specifics. It does greatly alter your thinking about armor tactics.

I did not see any horses.

BDH

[Louie the Toad]

Just an observation --

If Rune also had a pre CMBO party as was stated.

What was the amount of time between the party and the release of CMBO ?

Extrapolating.... Toad

[Louie the Toad]

I am still facinated by "Panzer Aces" accounts of how tank battles took place on the Eastern front. Did any of you who were at Rune's Party see action in CM:BB that simulated those accounts?

I am talking about wild driving and shooting sprees at close ranges.

Quick loading ..... Toad

[Barrold]

Ha!

I'll tell you we tried, but rune was especially tight-lipped about even the slightest hint of an answer outside of the oft-quoted "when it's done". There seems to be quite a bit of content finished so much work has been done, and I detected hints of a feverish pitch and long hours being put in by all involved so the efforts continue. From what I saw accomplished so far, it looks great, runs smoothly, and sounds fantastic. Rune said with an evil grin that we had not seen everything yet and more was coming so color me impressed and salivating for the release date.

Since my birthday is July 13th, I wouldn't mind terribly if I received an extra special present, but we'll have to see. Having this look today, I KNOW POSITIVELY that it will be worth this minor wait.

BDH

[Barrold]

Louie

While the scenario I played did not end up in such a run and gun battle per se, I could definitely see how that would be possible as it enfolded.

The extreme FOW also added a layer of chrome fantasiticalism to the already tense atmosphere present in CM:BO. Those added seconds of not exactly knowing ratchet of the pucker factor in a most pleasant way!

BDH

[pad152]

Question: What type of system was the game played on? Are we all going to need new systems or video cards to play this?

How long does it take to process a turn? Same as CMBO or a lot longer?

[Barrold]

The turns seemed to take roughly the same time to complete.

As I am not 100% knowledgeable about rune's setup, I would suggest looking at the FAQ for system requirements. I seem to recall a 16MB video card being the minimum, but I may be mistaken so check it out.

Did I mention how great the doodads look and how they add depth and perspective to the battlefield?

BDH

[ASL Veteran]

Originally posted by Berlichtingen:

I see history does not necessarily repeat itself...

Rune did this for CM:BO when it was still in beta (I didn't make it out there then either). What lacked then was the seeming bad blood about it.

I completely understand Michael's point of view on this. I think that, perhaps, some of the Beta testers have become used to playing CMBB and are insulated from the extended wait that the unwashed masses must endure. The main problem is that we were originally expecting a December 01 release date and now it is July and no new release date is forthcoming (Nothing at all - could be December 05 for all we know). Now we get a few screen shots tossed out once every other month and all this excited talk about new features that can't be revealed from individuals who have been playing CMBB in all its various stages for a year and a half.

At some point, those who are waiting will get a little frustrated if they can't play the game while others can. At the same time, those who are playing say "it's a great game with all these fabulous new features we can't tell you about cause they are secret". Well, why tell us there are secret features if you can't tell us what those features are. By doing so all you do is raise the level of curiosity and frustration of those who don't have the game. It is similar to running the fake rabbit out in front of the Greyhound dogs at the dog races - they will never catch the rabbit, but it is always tantalizingly near. Why put the rabbit in front of the dog if you aren't going to let it catch it - unless it is your intention to watch the dog perform for you.

Yes, perhaps it is silly to be anticipating the release of a computer game so much that you feel frustrated and angry about the seemingly preferential treatment of some. However, I don't think that a Beta tester (who plays CMBB regularly) is in a position to judge how someone who has no exposure to the new game feels about the fake rabbit running in front of him. Those of us who aren't members of 'The Club' have a right to feel frustrated and angry if we want to.

I'm a very patient guy, but I've been cutting back my PBEMs of CMBO and writing up scenario briefings since last November because I was constantly expecting the imminent release of CMBB. Now it is July and I have no more PBEMs going (finished my last one yesterday) and I have about 20 briefings in various stages of completion. After expecting the imminent release for about nine months now the wait gets a little old. I have to admit that my reaction to this thread was similar to Michael's. Don't tease us - just release it. I would go and on, but it is time to go back to blasting Kraut tanks in Panzer Elite!! I know every feature in that game.

[Battlefront]

Guys,

We have our own reasons for keeping some aspects of the game, SPECIFIC aspects, close to our chest... perhaps it is because we don't want EVERYTHING about your first play with it just a recounting of what was said on this Forum or in articles. For your own good we are keeping some of the DETAILS away from general public viewing.

Now, if you don't want to hear GENERAL views of the game from fresh eyes, we can easily NOT host things like this in the future. However, I think the majority of people are thrilled to hear about some first impressions. You guys have been waiting a long time and thus far have only had our word, your faith, and a few screenshots to go on. Think of this as the start of the process of putting our money where our mouth is.

And why don't we just spill the beans about when the game will ship right now? Because we know what happens when we announce things. And because of that we have to choose our timing carefully for our sake as well as yours. No, we aren't your parents, but we have a bit of experience as to how things work

Also think to yourselves... "if they are showing the game to a few non-testers, might they be coming near the end of the development cycle?". You're a pretty smart bunch, so I'll let you answer that for yourselves. And no, you will not have to wait for Thanksgiving to see if the wait is worth it, no matter how much Michael wants to compare us to WKRP

Steve

[Battlefront]

ASL Vet,

I have to admit that my reaction to this thread was similar to Michael's. Don't tease us - just release it.

Rune showing or not showing anything has no impact on our release date. Me having to come here and try and calm down a few people who are getting hot under the collar does.

And remember, while you guys have been sitting around waiting for CMBB to release, we who are working on it have had pretty much no lives. Come to my house, see the broken front door, the busted back screen door, the 3 foot high grass around my driveway, the craphole that is my office, and me sitting alone in my house on the 4th of July while my family is sun tanning themselves at our family camp while I put in yet another 20 hour work day and then perhaps you will understand that you have the easier job here.

I'm not looking for sympathy because when the game is done I will be rewarded. But I am looking to have things kept in perspective. Nobody wants the game to ship more than us.

Steve

[Gyrene]

I agree with both ASL Vet and Dorosh, if it's a secret then keep it secret and shut up about it if we are nowhere near being close to seeing the game.

The level of secrecy and knee-jerk reactions to every new "When will it be out" thread is bordering on ridiculous. Are they unveiling a new revolutionary operating system that will change the way people use computers or a war game for a relatively small niche market?

Maybe we are all to blame for being so excited and loyal about this game and it's successor.

Maybe we should all just ignore the development of CMBB and just leave the forum and go do something else to maybe later check out the game if we happen to stumble across a review on a magazine or web site whenever from now.

After well more than a year of teasing, reading about how "we showed the game to 4 people and they all really really loved it, but don't bother asking because we swore them to secrecy, but take our word for it, it's really good" is like a bad joke.

Gyrene

[Caesar]

Come on people, lighten up. BFC is obviously going to keep a lot of stuff secret - it's called marketing. If you think you are being teased then don't read it. Personally I am green with envy of those who got to play (the cost of a flight from NZ to Chicago seemed a little extreme even for CMBB) and am looking forward to reading the AARs and hearing about the details they are allowed to reveal.

[Seanachai]

Originally posted by rune:

OK Chicago area cmbbers. I don't expect much on such short notice, but have been given the green light by the guys of BFC.

So, tomorrow, July 4th, you have nothing to do, and the wife wants to get rid of you...if you are bored...you can come to the Casa de Rune to get a sneak preview of CMBB.

Rune

You elitist swine! I demand that the glorious Twin Cities of Minneapolis and St. Paul be given parity with Chicago, and that you agree to bring said preview to our community as well!

In the Great Patriotic Playing of CMBO, the Twin Cities have earned as much right to a preview as that stiffened puddle of effluent known as the city of Chicago!

We shall appeal to the Central Committee! This reversion to bourgeois infatuation with the privileges of aristocracy shall not go unreported!

Or, to put it more succinctly: Where's ours, you annoying little urban Illinois git?!

[Phantom Captain]

Wow,

I don't see how BFC can win on this one. If they release a product too early that is buggy or they are unsatisfied with everyone will whine and yell BFC please fix or do somefink! If they wait til they are satisfied and proud of their accomplishment everyone whines and says the wait is too long and they are being teased. Hmmm.

About the secrets, they are nothing earth shattering or paridigm shifting, just some cool tweaks that really add to the immersion of the game. I think it's cool that they want some surprises in the game so you all can be as blown away seeing things for the first time, playing it yourself. That's the fun of getting a new game right? Some are very subtle as well, as Rune said, some people won't even notice them for long after owning and playing the game. Just really cool little neat things to be discovered when it's released. Now put yourself in my shoes. I've seen the game and have to wait just as long as everyone else. I think I'm more teased than any of you guys. So everyone just relax, wait, and know that what is being released is far superior to CMBO and far superior to any other computer wargame on the market.

Also, lol, yes my girlfriend did want to stay longer and was actually trying to get us too. "Sure," she says to Rune, "we'll just have one more beer." lol. Believe me I wanted to stay too but i had to be the responsible one for the day.

As to us being some kind of special "club", I think that is really unfair. We just happened to be lucky in that we live close (about 3 miles in my case) and it could have been any of you, and any of you would have done what I did and jump at the chance to get a sneek peek. I feel like I won the lottery! Again, huge thanks to Tim and BFC for giving us this little taste. I think you guys are great. Steve, take all the time you need, what you are doing is priceless! Truly impressive. And Tim did mention the hours being put in, so take it easy on these guys. They are busting their asses.

Few more impressions of the game if you all still want to know. The sounds are really great and Rune said they aren't even all in yet. The difference between mg34's and 42's is noticeable. The stacatto and intermittent burst times are really cool. The russian uni's weren't done yet so we played them in blue skins, lol! Their rifles and smg's were in though. I didn't really notice the tracer textures being all that different but I don't know if they were the old textures, new ones not being implemented yet. Tank platoon command and control was cool and does add to the game immensely. All the new commands are really great too, Advance to contact, Seek hull down, human wave etc. Wait till you hear the russians yelling when they go into human wave mode, wow! Oh, and the Maxim's do have wheels. Didn't see any schreks though so I don't know if they have been changed either. All in all it was a great experience.

[Runyan99]

I just can't believe that Steve is posting at 0320 hours on July 4. Think about that one.

Oh, and Dorosh - you really dated yourself with that Les Nessman reference. Get with the times, buddy.

[Battlefront]

Gyrene,

After well more than a year of teasing

Nobody is teasing you. You guys want information about a game that is not ready for release? Well, you got it. If you want to hear NOTHING about the game until a week before we ship, that is your right. And as you suggested, easy enough to do by not becoming involved in it.

Honestly, what are we to do? You guys hound us day and night for more and more information. Then when you get some you hound us even more. This explains a) why we release information in the first place (i.e. because it is demanded of us) and why we release it so slowly (i.e. because releasing it all at once will not stop the demands for more info).

Again, it is easy enough to withhold more info from you guys. Piece of cake. Finishing the game sooner than when it is ready, that isn't possible.

We deeply appreciate the support and loyalty shown to us. And that is why we give you guys peeks at it as we go along. If this has the unintended effect of "teasing" it is just that... unintended. The main purpose is to give you guys a little bit of what you are after, but in a way that is healthy for us to do.

Life is all about choices and tradeoffs. There are no exceptions for highly anticipated games. You want information, you got it. But it will likely make you want it more. So if you don't like this, don't follow the game's development. There really is nothing more to it than that.

Steve

[Viceroy]

Well impatient as I am for CMBB I'm grateful for these little titbits and scraps of info. Thanks Rune for hosting and the guys who've posted on what they've seen.

Guys, remember other game companies read these forums too, so BFC/BTS have a reason for keeping some of their cards close to their chest.

[Phantom Captain]

Also,

One last thing. Never ever has a computer game company that I love so much shown such devotion and credit towards it's fan's. They listen, things we asked for have been put in. They invite us to their houses to see the game. How many companies have done that for you. Steve, Charles, Madmatt, and Kwazydog all take time to listen and respond to us. Nowhere have I seen a company with such devotion.

Just my two cents.

[ July 05, 2002, 04:21 AM: Message edited by: Lord Dragon ]

[Seanachai]

Good Lord! I posted my own, completely satirical remarks to Rune before I read some of the borderline acrimonious posts on this thread, and I now withdraw even my 'kidding' remarks.

Good on you, Rune, for being excited enough about this game to make an effort to share it with others. I certainly understand that desire. It's that feeling of 'involvement' with this game that has led to my involvement with a community of people, many of whom I've never met, and others of whom I've had straight into my own home, to stay for several days, because I've met them through playing CM.

I certainly understand people's anxiousness to see the game. And I can even appreciate that some might be tired of seeing 'teasers' from those more in the know. But keep in mind that these people are 'excited' about a game we've all been waiting for, and they are also excited for us, their community. You know they want to get on here, and tell us all about it, because they're sure that we're going to love it, and they want to let us know that we're not wrong.

But of course, they can't. Because things may change, and no one wants to see people posting on release stuff like 'hey, I was unofficially told by someone that xyz would be so, and it's not, what the hell's with that?', or 'BFC has betrayed my trust, and defiled the honour of my family because I was absolutely promised pre-release that my anxiety over some obscure but significant bit of complete idiocy that was as important to me as oxygen was completely groundless, and now I don't see it here. I will never cease posting death threats as a result of this treachery.'

So I, for one, will simply wait. Perhaps, as a member of the Peng Challenge I have a slightly different perspective. Because I'm used to a certain level of teasing, and taunting, and even unseemly gloating. But I know it's coming from people I know and like, just as I know that what Rune was doing here was sharing his excitement with the Community, in the only way he truly could.

So remember, lads, we're not kept in the dark out of malice, and we're not being teased by those who've got inside information. We're dealing with a 'work in progress, subject to change', and the excitement of our fellows over a game that they can't wait to share with us.

Also, most of us are kept in the dark because we're a lot of worthless tossers and halfwits who couldn't be trusted with a burnt out match.

And I wouldn't want it any other way.

[Sig]

Hello,

Seanachai, thanks to a far better command of the english language than mine, you have basically summed up in a milder and more sophisticated way my own feelings after I read the ...mmmh.. let's say... acidic comments by some of our comrades. So: amen, mylord!

I shall wait, and be happy to be teased, like a child waiting for a wonderful gift. Anticipation is half the pleasure, especially more so because I know and understand the dedication of the CMBB team. Careful, and precise work (often confused by the impatient as seemingly slow) is to be highly valued when it's reason is respect for the customer and desire to reach perfection (an illusion, but nevertheless a noble goal). My opinion only, but ready to fight for it.

And now BACK TO TOPIC: tease us, you lucky bunch, or I start to whine (and hold my breath till the game comes out)

Sig