Lah Posted August 2, 2002 Share Posted August 2, 2002 When the guy drop a round down the tube I noticed German crews duck but Allied crews don't, is there any reason for this? I'm not talking about crews in the game, just from watching TV. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gunnergoz Posted August 2, 2002 Share Posted August 2, 2002 My guess is, they are trying to avoid being hit by any propellant bag fragments or residue as the round leaves the bore. Any mortarmen have additional comments? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YankeeDog Posted August 2, 2002 Share Posted August 2, 2002 I think you should double-check your observations. I've certainly seen footage of Allied mortar crews "ducking" as well. Alas, I have never fired a mortar, but from what I've read on the subject ducking down and away from the muzzle of the mortar is good safety sense (as mentioned, flying bits and stuff) and therefore pretty much SOP for mortar crews. It's also just kind of instinctive - the concussion wave and flash is pretty substantial when you're right next to it, even from a small mortar. I imagine it's worse for larger mortars, though, and since for much of the war the smallest mortar the Germans were using was the 81mm, you may see more of a 'duck and cover' recorded on film for these crews than allied crews firing smaller mortars. Cheers, YD [ August 02, 2002, 11:49 AM: Message edited by: YankeeDog ] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Splinty Posted August 2, 2002 Share Posted August 2, 2002 They are also very loud. I can tell you from experience a 4.2" mortar sounds like a stick if dynamite when it fires. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
athkatla Posted August 2, 2002 Share Posted August 2, 2002 As an ex mortarman and MFC I can assure you that the Number 2 in a british mortar crew ducks as he slides the round down the barrel. The Number 1 usually doesn't as he is keeping his eye on the sight, and the number 3 is getting the next round ready, so he isn't too worried either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BeauCoupDinkyDau Posted August 2, 2002 Share Posted August 2, 2002 I know this may be a stupid question, but how does a mortar fire? I've never seen a crew place any kind of charge or propellant in any videos, and I know the rounds are not self-propelled. As a kid, I thought there was a spring in the tube. I've always wondered about this one. :confused: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Dorosh Posted August 2, 2002 Share Posted August 2, 2002 Originally posted by Vader's Jester: I know this may be a stupid question, but how does a mortar fire? I've never seen a crew place any kind of charge or propellant in any videos, and I know the rounds are not self-propelled. As a kid, I thought there was a spring in the tube. I've always wondered about this one. :confused: A friend of mine has a German GrW 34 8.1 cm mortar. He made his own rounds for it by using modern illumination rounds (expended), with a few grains of black dot gunpowder in a shotgun shell attached to the base. The primer on the shotgun shell sets off a charge that kicks out the round. I fired it, and yes, I did duck the hell out of the way. Imagine a 1 or 2 pound charge coming at you at several hundred metres per second. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Crowley Posted August 2, 2002 Share Posted August 2, 2002 A mortar is basically a smooth bore barrel with a fixed firing pin at the bottom, resting on a baseplate. The mortar bomb is "charged" by inserting what amounts to a percussion cartridge into the tail of the bomb, centrally between the fins.Secondary charges, usually one to six in number, are clipped between the fins. The bomb is inserted tail-down into the tube and released. It drops to the bottom of the barrel where the firing pin ignites the percussinon cartridge which, in turn, ignites the secondary charges; the resultant gasses expel the bomb up the barrel and bobs your uncle. Hope this helps Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doug Beman Posted August 2, 2002 Share Posted August 2, 2002 Originally posted by James Crowley: A mortar is basically a smooth bore barrel with a fixed firing pin at the bottom, resting on a baseplate. The mortar bomb is "charged" by inserting what amounts to a percussion cartridge into the tail of the bomb, centrally between the fins.Secondary charges, usually one to six in number, are clipped between the fins. The bomb is inserted tail-down into the tube and released. It drops to the bottom of the barrel where the firing pin ignites the percussinon cartridge which, in turn, ignites the secondary charges; the resultant gasses expel the bomb up the barrel and bobs your uncle. Hope this helpsAlso, Jack's a doughnut. DjB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SgtSweatHog Posted August 2, 2002 Share Posted August 2, 2002 There are also two rates of fire "lever" - and - "drop". Think of the firing pin as fixed on drop fire... you drop the round in, it empacts against the protruding pin, and foomp!... away it goes. With Lever fire, the pin is recessed. When the round is placed in the barrel, it lands on the base without ignition. Once the pin is tripped by the device oon the side, called the firing lever (go figure).. foomp!... money well spent. I have aminly used the platoon level motor of the CAF and I would assume it's basicially the same one modeled in the game. Besides the c-6 (GPMG), the motor was always a blast to shoot. Funny story: SOP's when using a motor are to have the base plate firmly planted in the ground before loading. You do this by basicially digging it into the ground, usually by raising it up and driving it down in the dirt. Then you take aim, load, and fire on command. Now I was in a motor pit with this wingnut and he got the procedure mixed up... So he test's and adjusts, he takes aim, I load it, and then... he gets the bright idea to replant it into the ground.... well take a guess what happend then. Foomp!.... almost straight up it went. So it all happened pretty quick and you only have a few seconds before the round wants to get it's feet back on the ground. So the old Warrent gives a few choice words to the wingnut, and calmy says "well, get your f*c*in faces in the dirt. And into the pit we go ..the Warrent, the wingnut, and I.... Few seconds later the round lands about 30 meters to the front...ka-rump!... dirt and **** everywhere. Needless to say the wingnut got a little slap (chit) for that one. ****ty feeling knowing there's a round inbound on your position.. and there not much you can do. Gives you a whole new apreciation for when the little pixel troops of CM are running through some of those heavy arty bombardments. Sucks to be them I says. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BeauCoupDinkyDau Posted August 2, 2002 Share Posted August 2, 2002 That is a funny story SargeSH. Thanks for clearing that up for me guys. Now I don't have to imagine that "spring" anymore. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patgod Posted August 2, 2002 Share Posted August 2, 2002 well....the PIAT is very mortar like, but uses a spring Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
athkatla Posted August 2, 2002 Share Posted August 2, 2002 Originally posted by SgtSweatHog:<HR> SOP's when using a motor are to have the base plate firmly planted in the ground before loading.<HR> At my time in the Mortar Platoon with the 81mm mortar as a MFC, this action was normally carried out before beginning live firing on the range. An order of "Bed in Charge 6" would be given, and the number 1 would remove the sight, the numbers 2 and 3 would stand with one foot on each side of the base plate facing to the rear of it, and two rounds @charge 6 would be fired. This would usually bed in the base plate succesfully. As an aside, I have seen a mortar line, where the barrels are a little more than a foot above ground, on very soft ground. The number 2 having to lay prone, to load the round and then move out the way PDQ> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renaud Posted August 2, 2002 Share Posted August 2, 2002 From 3rd ACR I remember 4.2" mortar crews putting things called 'cheese-charges' onto a rod extending from the base of the 4.2" shell. These were thin slices of something that looked like a cheese slice with a hole in it that slid onto the rod. By varying the number of these charges mounted on the rod you could adjust the power/range. I remember they would prep rounds for a known range with the proper number of charges. 4.2" was extremely accurate and could consistently hit a 6'x6' target pit from 5000 meters away in windless conditions (direct fire observed by crew) after a few ranging shots (they would destroy the target lifter that way, hehe). Ren Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StellarRat Posted August 2, 2002 Share Posted August 2, 2002 Originally posted by Splinty: They are also very loud. I can tell you from experience a 4.2" mortar sounds like a stick if dynamite when it fires.Exactly what I was going to say. The movies all make it seem like these things make a little bit of noise. HA! You better cover your ears! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
minmax Posted August 2, 2002 Share Posted August 2, 2002 I personally find the Noise intolerable regardless if its a 60mm or 120mm or one of those self-propelled monsters that fling 155mm. I was glad to be around 400 and 60 hz generators making a steady and numbing droning racket. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruno Weiss Posted August 2, 2002 Share Posted August 2, 2002 Ain't they got no cotton? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warmaker Posted August 3, 2002 Share Posted August 3, 2002 SgtSweatHog, A good friend's father told a somewhat similiar story to yours. The 2 problems he had was that he was in combat as a Marine in Vietnam. His 2nd problem was that they had to bail out of their hole in combat since the mortar was practically at a vertical position. His Dad says he became quite religious after that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zukkov Posted August 3, 2002 Share Posted August 3, 2002 i once talked to a vietnam vet that said he saw mortars firing so intensely that they would heat up the tubes and you could actually see through em. think he was yankin' me?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BloodyBucket Posted August 3, 2002 Share Posted August 3, 2002 I made a mortar out of a wiffle ball bat, a sheet music stand and some duct tape. It launched small green apples, powered by firecrackers. A state trooper decided that small children should not have such things, but he was very impressed with the prism sight (toy periscope) and the fact that we were hitting targets several hundred yards away with our apple-bombs. I think he must have been a mortarman in the military, he had a very keen interest in our setup. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pacestick Posted August 4, 2002 Share Posted August 4, 2002 Originally posted by athkatla: Originally posted by SgtSweatHog:<HR> SOP's when using a motor are to have the base plate firmly planted in the ground before loading.<HR> At my time in the Mortar Platoon with the 81mm mortar as a MFC, this action was normally carried out before beginning live firing on the range. An order of "Bed in Charge 6" would be given, and the number 1 would remove the sight, the numbers 2 and 3 would stand with one foot on each side of the base plate facing to the rear of it, and two rounds @charge 6 would be fired. This would usually bed in the base plate succesfully. As an aside, I have seen a mortar line, where the barrels are a little more than a foot above ground, on very soft ground. The number 2 having to lay prone, to load the round and then move out the way PDQ>Exactly the same procedure we used. The reason the No 2 ducks is because the noise level is very noticably lower when your head is below the top of the tube when the round fires. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Olle Petersson Posted August 5, 2002 Share Posted August 5, 2002 My father was the leader of a 12cm mortar squad in the 60ies. He's told me that the entire crew for safety reasons had to take cover in a dug out pit a few metres from the mortar everytime a round was fired. (The warhead might detonate inside the tube.) Once he found his men dissicating a HE shell, just to see what it looked like inside. This was of course in violation against a whole plethora of safety regulations... What to do? Reassemble the shell and hope it doesn't explode when dropped into the tube. Once there the crew will be protected in the pit if it's a misfire. (As it turned out it went off without any hassle...) Cheers Olle Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andreas Posted August 5, 2002 Share Posted August 5, 2002 Originally posted by Patgod: well....the PIAT is very mortar like, but uses a spring Alex Bowlby does indeed claim in his recollections that his platoon used it as platoon mortar, because the 2" mortar was so useless. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doug Beman Posted August 5, 2002 Share Posted August 5, 2002 Originally posted by zukkov: i once talked to a vietnam vet that said he saw mortars firing so intensely that they would heat up the tubes and you could actually see through em. think he was yankin' me??Yes. Regardless of temperature, you cannot see through steel. DjB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tarquelne Posted August 5, 2002 Share Posted August 5, 2002 I just came across a picture of about a dozen men near a mortar. About half are standing right next to it, about half are ten or so feet away. One of the men is doing something with the mortar, and everyone else is holding hands over ears. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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