Graphics Quality

[steveshaw]

So far I have only played the CMBB Demo. The game itself seems very challenging and this encourages me to buy it. However, I still hesitate because it appears to me that the quality of the graphics is low. For example when moving the battlefield camera round a tank that is hidden behind a tiny wood. Sometimes the whole tank can be seen but within a few yards of moving the camera half the tank suddenly vanishes behind a tree that is just moving into line of sight. Really the tank should slowly disappear from view. This is only one example, infantry can vanish just as easily.

My question is: does the released version of CMBB have higher quality graphics than the demo version?

Thank you in advance for any reply received.

[Pascal DI FOLCO]

One : full game graphics are exactly the same than in the demo

Two : your problem is just that "trees" are indeed bitmaps, the game doesn't uswe 3D trees models. But I don't know of any game that correctly model trees BTW ...

Three and last : if such a small detail as this is making you hesitate to buy the game, well, don't buy it, you ain't worth it ... :eek:

Frankly, the CMBB 3D engine is NOT meant to be compared to Quake3's or Flashpoint's. It is quite good IMHO for what it is meant to, but the scope just isn't the same.

Please DON'T complaint about the houses having no furniture AT ALL !

[Captain Pies]

Tsk Tsk PDF, Dont be so hasty to put him off, we need more cannon fodder after all is said and done

Seriously though Steveshaw if you are looking for a great tactical simulation of the Eastern Front you will never do any better than CMBB. If you aren't I'd still give it a spin, I can guarantee it will hook you anyway.

[ October 10, 2002, 09:04 AM: Message edited by: Captain Pies ]

[steveshaw]

This was the first occasion that I have accessed this website. Whilst it was gratifying to receive a reply so quickly I was rather disappointed by the intemperate nature of that reply. My question was polite and deserved a more polite reply. I have used forums for various games I have bought or intended to buy and I have rarely come across examples of "Email Rage".

I would go further and say that one might find a certain level of childishness on a D and D game forum where the average age of the respondents is teenage to twenties. However, in a forum for a serious wargame such as this where the average age is probably more mature and where the forum members might be expected to be of a more scholarly bent such use of invective is unwarranted.

[Andreas]

To reiterate what the Tortenhauptmann said, the game's graphics are not its main selling point. For various reasons they can not be as good as those of a latest-generation FPS. The unique selling point is the quality of the simulation.

It really depends on your taste - if the demo intrigues you, you should probably get the game. If it is only of marginal interest to you, and the graphics are the make or break, it may not be the best choice.

As PDF said - the graphics are unchanged between the demo and the game, although individual items can be modded. Not the fundamental character of the trees though.

Hope that helps.

[Panzer Leader]

Now now, after various age polls over the past couple of years, I think the average came out to be around 34-37 (correct me if I'm wrong.) Now, while it is undeniably true that this is one of the most mature, educated, and interesting forums on the 'net, two things must be remembered:

1.) Politeness was not one of the noteworthy features of this group.

2.) Maturity is in no way related to physical age.

As to your original question: graphics are a welcome bonus to this game - the real features are the utter realism and accuracy for a WW2 ground-warfare simulation.

Edited for metaphor: To question the game for it's graphics would be to question the chef for his soup based on the bowl it was served in.

[ October 10, 2002, 09:23 AM: Message edited by: Panzer Leader ]

[Kingfish]

Originally posted by Pascal DI FOLCO:

Three and last : if such a small detail as this is making you hesitate to buy the game, well, don't buy it, you ain't worth it ... :eek:

Please DON'T complaint about the houses having no furniture AT ALL !

Wow! Quite a response there, Pascal. Maybe you should be the spokesman for BFC, and have all questions directed your way.

[GJK]

Originally posted by Panzer Leader:

2.) Maturity is in no way related to physical age.

Absolutely correct

[aka_tom_w]

Originally posted by steveshaw:

This was the first occasion that I have accessed this website. Whilst it was gratifying to receive a reply so quickly I was rather disappointed by the intemperate nature of that reply. My question was polite and deserved a more polite reply. I have used forums for various games I have bought or intended to buy and I have rarely come across examples of "Email Rage".

I would go further and say that one might find a certain level of childishness on a D and D game forum where the average age of the respondents is teenage to twenties. However, in a forum for a serious wargame such as this where the average age is probably more mature and where the forum members might be expected to be of a more scholarly bent such use of invective is unwarranted.

you are correct

this is usually a much more civil place.

The quality of the graphics is not the main selling feature. As you can see.

perhaps you should looks a some GREAT web site for mods of CMBO

TOM's CMHQ partial snow mod for the CMBO bulge scenarios comes to mind.

or this one?

http://www.cmoutpost.net/

ok?

good luck

-tom w

[ October 10, 2002, 09:59 AM: Message edited by: aka_tom_w ]

[Barrold]

Steve,

Most of the responses you will receive here, including those from the designers themselves will generally be of a politer quality.

PDF may have to be excused as he is French after all and English may not be his first language.

Be that as it may, CMBB is the highest quality presentation of East Front combat that has yet been available on the market.

If the demo is intriguing for its challenge and gameplay, the full game will provide thousands of additional hours of superb entertainment. With the infinite possibilities for replay, the vast selection of units, the talented mod community, and those wonderfully dedicated designers of new scenarios and operations putting out their wares, the value of this product is understated as compared to much of what is available on the market.

So if you are interested in WWII and tactical wargames are part of this interest, at this time CMBB is the pinnacle of quality.

If graphics and FPS gameplay is your sole interest, then you might not share the enthusiasm others feel here.

Welcome to the forum.

BDH

[MikeyD]

It took me a few seconds to wrap my head around your tree problem but I understand now. What you experienced could be termed "the magic flythrough". move too close to a tree and you've popped to the other side. Move too close to a tank and you're suddenlt viewing it from inside out. And my favorite, sneak up to a soldier from behind and at just the right distance you're seeing his face from the inside of his skull!

That's the game engine at work. The only way around it would be to have the 'camera' bump to a stop when he's about to fly through an object (like the walls in Tombraider), which would be ten times as annoying as what happens now.

[Wally's World]

steveshaw:

Put it this way, I was very impressed when in a Quick Battle, I saw T-34s and IS-2s advancing towards my German troops across the open steppe accompanied by Russian soldiers running alongside the tanks. In my opinion the graphics for CMBB ( and also CMBO) are excellent and give a very good impression of fighting conditions on the Eastern Front. My defending German troops were holding a line across the steppe with very little cover. It reminded me of the conditions faced by members of the Sixth Army who had to defend the western flank of the Kessel during Stalingrad as described in the book 'Stalingrad' by Anthony Beevor. Minus the IS-2s of course!

[xerxes]

The graphics of CMBB and CMBO are clunky. There's been some screenshots of WWII games in development that look fantastic, I'd love to have those graphics in CMXX. My fear with those games is that the gameplay will take a backseat.

I find when playing CM that I don't "zoom-in" hardly at all so I don't really see some of the graphical weaknesses. Take your view back a bit and the graphics all munge together. Then again, I've always been the type to turn down graphics quality to increase frame rates.

When I'm in the middle of a really tough battle my thoughts are totally consumed by what my opponent is going to do.

[Swift]

I found that many of the strange graphical things that I observe in CMBB are due to the scaling of units. If you change to realistic scale things look much more real (tanks doesn’t bunch up, perspective changes correctly).

The fact that trees are 2D surfaces that always faces the player might look strange but think about how many triangles you need to create a tree with branches and all. I don't think that the games graphics are limited by the game developers but by the current graphics cards.

xerxes: Could you name the other games? I haven found any that looks better.

[kump]

Geez, how can I not post on a "graphics" debate of CMBB.

The wargame crowd tends to always boast and push gameplay over graphics. This really is a no brainer, gameplay matters most. No matter how good an FPS looks, your interest in it only lasts as long as you keep saying "wow, cool graphics". As soon as you stop gawking, the game play will raise its ugly shallow head and you will loose interest.

On the other hand, graphics does matter. The better looking, the more the game pulls you in and suspends belief. Even with good gameplay, you want to experience your tactical decisions by "being there". The better the graphics, the more alive the game becomes. Sound is also a big part of this. Its has to look and sound good as well. Either lacking, and the entire package suffers.

Some argue that gameplay matters most and graphics should be sacrificed. This debate has always bothered me. Why as customers must we think one has to be sacrificed for the other's improvement? We should demand both, good graphics and gameplay. Yes, one does not cancel the other, you can have it all. No, you should demand it all.

CMBB is a good example of getting it all. It has fantastic gameplay and the best graphics ever for a wargame. Best graphics? Sure, some FPS's have prettier textures, more effects, complicated architecture, smoother models, and so on, but its a completely different and smaller scale than CM.

First and foremost, CM is a tactical wargame with incredible detailed mechanics under its hood. At the same time, it presents an incredible number of units in graphical detail. Its my opinion that the combination of good gameplay, good graphics, and good sound has never been done better for any other wargame.

Sure, I've seen better special effects, models, and textures in other types of products. If I just took screen shots of games and compared them side by side, I might give CM a pass. But that would be judging beauty only skin deep and is very shallow. CM is beautiful all the way through, from sound, to graphics, to gameplay. It all meshes together in a way old and new wargamers alike have never before experienced.

Don't test drive this baby by just glancing at the paint job. Take it around the block, and if this tactical wargame type of thing is to your liking, you'll have the cash in hand and a big smile on your face when you drive it back.

[ October 10, 2002, 11:44 AM: Message edited by: kump ]

[Pascal DI FOLCO]

Hi all again,

While still not of Fionn's caliber I'm of a somewhat rude nature when writing, as some may have pointed out already

That I'm French may be an excuse, but I really meant what I wrote ! :eek:

However I apologize for any offense taken, my sarcastic irony is easily mistaken for plain rudeness on a written post, whatever the accompanying smilies may be .

Hope this will alleviate any concerns about my English also ...

Steve, really, don't take too much attention to graphical glitches, above all when zooming out/going to ground level 1. I'm a modslut, I like the clean CM graphics, but the magic of the game is not in breathtaking graphics taken from close.

But here you have the most rude, asocial, dirty, cesspoolian band of crazy grogs you won't find anywhere else. Stay with us !

BTW I'm 37, of doubting maturity, and I also go to D&D forums

[ October 10, 2002, 12:31 PM: Message edited by: Pascal DI FOLCO ]

[Renaud]

It's not uncommon for those new to CM to look briefly at the graphics and go 'Uuuggh!'. This is understandable if you don't come from a military simulation/wargaming background. To gauge CM's graphics, you have to compare apples to apples. Compare CM to other tactical wargames and CM will come out on top. Note that Operation Flashpoint, WWII Online and other FPS games are oranges to CM's apples. But if you come from a wargaming background (SSI, Avalon Hill, etc.) then CMBB is pure heaven. I think I spent an hour just looking at the Tiger IE model when I first played the 'Tiger! Tiger!' scenario. The purpose of CM is to provide a fun simulation of WWII era ground warfare. It's for military history buffs and tactical thinkers, chess-players if you will. Until now, wargamers have largely had to use their imaginations for graphics when moving little Nato symbology around on flat, cartoony map.

Ren

[MikeyD]

Pacal, you apologizing for sarcastic irony? Hell, sarcastic irony's the only thing that gets me through my workday!

Maybe that's my own French ancestry peeking through.

[Monty's Double]

I think he's gone...

[murpes]

Originally posted by steveshaw:

My question is: does the released version of CMBB have higher quality graphics than the demo version?

Thank you in advance for any reply received.

I felt the same way when I first played CMBB - with the realization that the technology was under the hood, not in the eye candy. But then I discovered mods, and some of the art (and I do mean *art*) made it feel like a brand new game. Don't consider the shipping art as what you're stuck with. Mod collecting can be a lot of fun, almost a game unto itself.

[-E]

Originally posted by Pascal DI FOLCO:

That I'm French may be an excuse

ROFLMAO! YOU are the guy John Cleese portrayed in a movie aren't you? (and I thought he was just being outrageously silly, never knowing it was a serious character study of a real person!) ...Now go away, or I shall taunt you a second time-uh. *grin*

[second amendment]

I think the graphics are fine...sure they could be better but they in no way are a detriment to the game. fire the demo scenario on kursk and stand in the field as the panzers rumble by. Its awesome....like looking back at a piece of history

[Gun Dog]

Originally posted by Pascal DI FOLCO:

...if such a small detail as this is making you hesitate to buy the game, well, don't buy it, you ain't worth it ...:

"...You aint worth it?" Wow! That one line was a bit rough, no matter what the nationality of the author.

As for the original posting, I think the author might see an improvemnt in some of the graphics if he downloads the various hi-res mods.

[Pascal DI FOLCO]

Originally posted by Gun Dog:

</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Pascal DI FOLCO:

...if such a small detail as this is making you hesitate to buy the game, well, don't buy it, you ain't worth it ...:

"...You aint worth it?" Wow! That one line was a bit rough, no matter what the nationality of the author.

As for the original posting, I think the author might see an improvemnt in some of the graphics if he downloads the various hi-res mods.</font>

[Bill Bishop]

Heh, I like graphics, one of the reasons I play computer games is for the graphical representation. But of course that is for games along the lines of Battlefield 1942 or some other action game...

As for CMBB I am happy my processing power is used for the AI and the detail that make this one of the best strategy games around atm.

As for rudeness, I agree that you shouldn't blanket a nationality for something that one person is responsible for...

MSW