Kwazydog Posted June 13, 2003 Share Posted June 13, 2003 Dont worry Phil, I didnt take you the wrong way, just wasnt sure what you were picturing that might make it unplayable, hehe. Firstly, no, it wont become an FPS VERY basically, at the moment, think of something similar to the current game play of CM, but with grpahics better than battlefield command. Now, dont get me wrong there, those graphics are absoluetly awesome in BC, but their game will be released sonner than ours and thus we will have more hardware to play with There is going to be a lot more in there and a lot may changes, but I just wanted to give you guys a very rough idea of where it might be headed. More details down the track. I think you guys will be excited...I know I am 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomm Posted June 13, 2003 Share Posted June 13, 2003 Originally posted by KwazyDog: Now, dont get me wrong there, those graphics are absoluetly awesome in BC, but their game will be released sonner than ours and thus we will have more hardware to play with Very well, but don't you think that at that stage not the state of the hardware, but the number and skill of the graphic artists and the animators is the decisive factor? Think of all the more complex building and vegetation models! The necessary effort will multiply! I think that ALL games should increase the amount of smoke and dust on-screen! Obviously this still has a great impact on frame-rate, otherwise they would do it, wouldn't they? I was happy to see that CMAK does go in this direction and I am very curious how it will work out! Seems the most important graphical enhancement to me (maybe because I do not care too much about night fighting = dynamic lighting)! The other major factor is physics = interaction with the environment. I do not foresee the CM series to go very deep in this respect; it will not become a Half Life 2. Deformable terrain, maybe, but that has a big influence on the terrain representation. We are currently playing RtCW:Enemy Territory and I have to say that I am underwhelmed by this "state of the art shooter". Sure it looks perfect, but objects are not destructible and this is where immersion goes down the drain. I guess HL2 will show: hardware is good and well, but it is the algorithms, Baby! Regards, Thomm 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phil stanbridge Posted June 13, 2003 Author Share Posted June 13, 2003 Dan, what engine do you intend to use for this, or can't you say at the moment? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hpt. Lisse Posted June 13, 2003 Share Posted June 13, 2003 Thank god for the switch to OpenGL. It would be interesting if the same we-go format is retained, but various graphical improvements are instituted. I don't think it's unreasonable for us to see detailed animations at closer ranges. So, when we get close enough, the 3-man icon for a US rifle platoon breaks into 12 seperate men. Complete with their "basic" animations - rifle guys shooting and reloading their M-1's, the BAR operator firing. I can see a good firefight on the other side of the board shaping up as I follow an armored engagement - when I rewind to the start, I'll go over there and watch the more detailed version of the mad minute. Their Sargeant got hit, so their overall experience dropped from "Veteran" to "Regular" as a lance Corporal takes comand of the group. This does not have to be a super high-res experience - even those little sock puppets from WWII:Frontline Commander would almost do. Hand-to-hand combat will have an all-new meaning for us. Tank hatches, building doors, all have basic animations. All individuals have names, which can be changed or assigned. Medics should be able to effect wounded soldiers, perhaps more for campaign-length operations. And we'll see airplanes, not just shadows. They'll burn as they fall from the sky. Tanks will model progressive damage if appropriate. This IS the CMX3 engine thread, right? Hpt. Lisse 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kwazydog Posted June 13, 2003 Share Posted June 13, 2003 Thomm, good points. To be honest though, hardware still plays a very and probably the most important part in game graphics, at least not for us. FPSer's are a very different beast to what we work on and are indeed crossing that barrier where the artist output is very important there (HL looks amazing!), but games in an open environment such as CM, BC or flight sims such as IL-2 that rely of detailed physics, good AI and a large detailed environment really are still bound by the hardware they are running on. Also, better hardware offers better effects....look at some of the shadows now showing up in games for instance, along with bump mapping, reflections (particually in water), textures thanks to VRAM increases, etc. All of these will become better and better over time. Phil, Charles is writing the new engine from scratch. He has some amazing plans for it, but its far too soon to go into details unfortunately To be honest there arent really engines out there to suit our needs...most engines are actually gears to FPS style games, and the better of those go for over $1,000,000 a pop, hehe. Dan 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-Havermeyer- Posted June 13, 2003 Share Posted June 13, 2003 Could someone explain bump mapping to a layman (i.e., I've only played CM games since pre-ordering BO)? Thanks. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Schoerner Posted June 13, 2003 Share Posted June 13, 2003 Originally posted by KwazyDog: Phil, Charles is writing the new engine from scratch. Besides all the other good tasting bones, IMO this is the best news! The unbeatable experience Charles already has, combined with BTS plans and visions, will make the good things in the engine even better and the not so perfect ones disappear which fits perfectly to the evolutionary way of developing CM further. Excellent. Good luck & best wishes to all. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ColumbusOHGamer Posted June 13, 2003 Share Posted June 13, 2003 Originally posted by KwazyDog: ...More details down the track. I think you guys will be excited...I know I am I'm sporting some wood myself! Thanks for the juicy update! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kwazydog Posted June 13, 2003 Share Posted June 13, 2003 Havermeyer, very simply bump mapping is a method where by you can make a surface look like it has raised details on it without adding polygons to the surface. For instance, you could use a bump map to simulate zimmerit on a Tiger which would result in the zimmerit reacting to the light in the scene (highlights, shadows, etc) as if it were really raised from the surface, even though the surface is essentially flat. If saves polygons on a model, but does add to the overhead on the video card. Err, does that help at all ? Dan 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BFCElvis Posted June 14, 2003 Share Posted June 14, 2003 Michael, There was a game I had on my Commodore 64 that used map 3 from SL/ASL and had the cardboard counters. You typed in your moves and it gave a text display of the enemies movements and fire outcomes. Mildly satisfing when Peng wasn't available for actual ASL play. Elvis 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pvt. Ryan Posted June 14, 2003 Share Posted June 14, 2003 Here I go trying to be a smartass about the cardboard counters and it turns out it's really been done. :mad: Seriously, I'm sure the new engine is going to be awesome, but I think I would go nuts trying to anticipate the new features, and I'd hate to be disapointed if it didn't include some neat stuff that I was hoping for. I don't remember if any time frame for CMX2 has been announced, but hopefully some sort of feature preview will be announced by the end of this year. Then we can start salivating! I'm sure BFC knows what we (and they) want and will do their best to include it. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Dorosh Posted June 14, 2003 Share Posted June 14, 2003 Never underestimate the ingenuity of 1980s vintage computer and board wargamers. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Dorosh Posted June 14, 2003 Share Posted June 14, 2003 Originally posted by Pvt. Ryan: Seriously, I'm sure the new engine is going to be awesome, but I think I would go nuts trying to anticipate the new features, and I'd hate to be disapointed if it didn't include some neat stuff that I was hoping for. Exactly. We only go through this every time BFC announces a new release. I was pleasantly surprised by CMBB mostly becuase I didn't expect the moon, the stars, and everything mortal and beyond to be packed onto one CD. I am sure CMX2 will be far more pleasant. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-Havermeyer- Posted June 14, 2003 Share Posted June 14, 2003 Thanks, Dan. That's pretty cool. CAN'T WAIT. Well, maybe CMAK will help me wait. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Dorosh Posted June 14, 2003 Share Posted June 14, 2003 http://www.cs.wpi.edu/~matt/courses/cs563/talks/bump/bumpmap.html Guess our self-proclaimed google wizard had a hard time producing any results.... :confused: 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
atiff Posted June 14, 2003 Share Posted June 14, 2003 (removed) [ June 15, 2003, 09:07 PM: Message edited by: atiff ] 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lady Roxanne Posted June 14, 2003 Share Posted June 14, 2003 What are the target minimum computer requirements for running the new CM engine? That info will give good clues as to what we can expect, as long as we keep in mind that CM will probably always be a CPU intensive thing and can't be compared to FPS games. I'd like to see a smaller basic terrain grid. Instead of 20 meters square, 10 or even 5 meters would be nice, with linear features down to 1 meter in width. Instead of down-in-the-dirt graphical improvement of squads, and eye candy in general, how about AI, better QB generation, and anything that would help with the Borg spotting? Fix the "firing and spotting through tanks" issue. I want my CPU to melt on stuff like this, not more polygons. The only eye candy I would really love to see is full game playback. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Other Means Posted June 14, 2003 Share Posted June 14, 2003 {slinks in, coughs into hand} campaign! {mumbles something while leaving} even more than graphically accurate squads, i'd love to know who i'm fighting with. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Crowley Posted June 14, 2003 Share Posted June 14, 2003 Improved AI; more variation to battle types and QB's; a quick-operation generator; additional terrain and building types.....and then worry about graphics. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Schoerner Posted June 14, 2003 Share Posted June 14, 2003 Originally posted by CrankyKris: ... how about AI, ...The TacAI's limitations are mostly because the AI can't remember what already happened to it. Interesting how well the AI does without memory, isn't it? It seems to be quite sure, that the new engine will give units a memory. Now imagine, when the AI's tanks go into cover, they still know, where the enemy tanks are, from which direction the shot came, where the threatened areas are and where the safe ones are... Then add to the new AI-memory the much better LOS-capabilities of the AI for finding paths and voila, the new AI will be much stronger. [ June 14, 2003, 05:24 PM: Message edited by: Schoerner ] 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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