Is CM to die like close combat??

[Jaws]

A long time ago I made a post that I was concerned about the CM series. The reason was that I only noticed improvements of CMBO rather than developing a new engine or game. In my opinion the CM-series could die just like the Close Combat series if they didn't develop a new engine or game.

Most of the people didn't saw the problems at that moment.

I'm a big fan of the CM series and I really like the community and the forums.

But if we don't invest in a new gamers group I fear the community will be greyed out. (I don’t know if this is correct English?)

The text below is from a new game called battlefield command and I see it threaten the CM mission series.

Not that I don't like to see new games but I can imagine the new gamers will be impressed by games like “Battlefield Command” and loose there interested in games like CM

(B.t.w. the game got the so called Campaign modus in it)

Am I seeing Ghost or should battlefront keep their eyes open and develop a new looking game instead of using up their current engine? Or will CMX2 bring this all??

Any opinions about this??

-------------------------------------------------

Battlefield Command delivers the ultimate tactical conflict experience capturing the cunning, passion and realism of being responsible for a combined tactical force during some of histories most dramatic and intense battles.

From the invasion of Poland and France in 1939-40, through to the D-Day landings of 1944, to the fall of Germany in 1945, take control of Allied or Axis armies chosen from ten nationalities including American, British, French, Russian or German.

Commanding a wide range of military units, complete with authentic uniforms, weapons, vehicles and planes draws the player into a realistic and accurately recreated military environment of Europe from 1939-45.

Battlefield Command captures not only the tactics and strategy of war but also the emotions of being a battlefield Commander in WWII through realistic and personally intense detail. Being responsible for the men in your unit and the bond that develops between veterans as campaigns progress is important and plays an integral part in the behavior of the unit. As a commander of a band of soldiers, each with their own skills, abilities, identities and personalities, players will be able to zoom down to the battlefield and identify what individual soldiers are thinking and feeling.

Covering WWII’s major European battles from the invasion of Poland and France in 1939-40, through the war on the Eastern Front and the fall of Germany in 1945.

Choose to fight with Allied or Axis armies from nine nationalities including British, American German, French and Russian.

Over three hundred individual units in thirty-three European locations, in over one hundred battles.

Every mission is based on historical events, in real locations re-constructed using precise maps, aerial and period photography.

Incredible game detail – individual AI per soldier, authentic uniforms, weapons, vehicles, planes and equipment accurately recreated using military blueprints.

Battle tactics involve reconnaissance, covert operations, rescues, city skirmishes and assaults, ambushes and sabotage.

Unit behaviour is affected on morale, experience and skills.

Your unit’s ability to fight effectively as a team to overcome the enemy is dependent on morale, experience and skills. Each soldier has thirty-six personal and combat attributes which can advance through the game, so the more campaigns you engage in, the more skills your unit develop and the greater the bond becomes between you and your men.

As your game progresses and you negotiate the various campaigns, your units are continually rewarded with promotions and decorations. Their achievement, honor and success is your own.

Single and multiplayer options including allied or axis missions for each campaign and four specialist multiplayer modes all of which are fully customizable.

-------------------------------------------------

[Straif]

Looks like a crypto-advertisement to me :confused:

Straif

[Moon]

In case you missed it - we ARE developing a new engine as I write this

Martin

[Aragorn2002]

Well, perhaps they can beat the future versions of Combat Mission in graphics, but never in realism. I bet these are the same guys who've made IL-2 Stormowik and they couldn't resist to make the Soviet planes superior in almost all aspects. They will do the same with this game and probably spoil it. But it is a strong warning that Combat Mission needs better graphics to beat these guys.

[Aragorn2002]

And with better graphics I mean the infantry, which isn't bad, but could be better. I'm sure Combat Mission can take on Battlefield Command any time.

[Moon]

Originally posted by Straif:

Looks like a crypto-advertisement to me :confused:

Straif

Yeah, a little, though I'm sure it's not intended. Certainly the game won't need this kind of pushing to sell well. It has a lot of promise and certainly looks very good. It has a great team behind it, too. I am sure it will reach a much bigger mass audience than CM ever did, but why should this be a bad thing for us?

Martin

[PeterX]

I don't believe that Battlefield Command will be the CM clone your fear. IIRC, it will feature a real time engine with a lot fewer active units, thus possessing a different scale. OTOH, the developer is the Russian, Oleg Maddox, who created the redoubtable IL-Sturmovik flight sim. I'm sure it will be good, just different.

[Sitzkrieg]

Yeah, Battlefield Command (formerly known as WWII RTS) is a Codemasters/1C Maddox project.

Projected release isn't until mid to late 2004. And if it's anything like Forgotten Battles, add about 6 more months to that at least. That would be at about the same time that the new CMX2 engine would be released.

I think the two are totally different games in terms of realism, type (WEGO vs. RTS) and scale (pretty sure Battlefied Command has a limit of like 16 units or somefink). So I don't think it's really a competitive product.

In the end, don't worry so much. Enjoy CM in all it's flavors and be patient because good things are coming.

[Lou2000]

Will CM survive .... well we currently have 2 CM's out there and another one the way .... games like battlefield 1942, medal of honour etc deal with the same war but dont even come close to the level of gameplay nor do they threaten the current versions of CM....

I think both games will live alongside each other without much problem....

There will no doubt be some degree of crossover in target audience, but Battlefield Command as an RTS will probably appeal more to the 'joystick twitching fire button jockeys' ... Whilst the slower paced, more thought out approach of CM will probably continue to appeal to those people currently playing CM

Dont get me wrong I'll probably buy battlefield command .... just like I bought IL-2 and played it to death for a month or so and then .... just stopped !

But I will certainly buy the new engined CM

The CM series (so far) have concentrated on

'detail' to a degree that I doubt 1C Maddox will achieve or even try to reach.

The screenshots look excellent, but thats no guarantee that the AI will give you a run for your money.

IMHO - No contest

[flamingknives]

300 units? CMBB's got more than that. Sniff.

[Firefly]

The game sounds interesting, but from the blurb provided by Jaws, it sounds more like an Operation Flashpoint style shooter than a wargame. No bad thing, but not really a competitor.

[mike_the_wino]

CM dead?

DAMNIT, how come I am always the last to find these things out. And I just started 2 PBEMs...what a waste of my life. :eek:

BTW, does anyone even bother post on this forum anymore? :confused:

[Abbott]

Every mission is based on historical events, in real locations re-constructed using precise maps, aerial and period photography.

Battle tactics involve reconnaissance, covert operations, rescues, city skirmishes and assaults, ambushes and sabotage.

These two comments make me a bit wary. Every mission? I much prefer open-ended games/battles where I am not confined to follow the programmer’s path or the Artificial Intelligence’s path.

Covet operations? Rescues? Sabotage? Sounds a bit like Command&Conquer to me.

I will of course watch its development, reviews and will certainly try its Demo. I enjoyed Panzer General for awhile and played Talonsoft’s East Front but always returned to Steel Panthers until Combat Mission arrived.

With BFC’s excellent products, customer support and community I see myself staying around for a very long time. I play games other then the two Combat Mission’s but always return to Combat Mission. My only gripe is I have lost track of my GHQ, CinC and Ros Heroics micro armor since the release of Combat Mission!

[MikeyD]

That's the problem with the computer game world. People always go for novelty intead of the playability.

Would I like the option to peer through the gunners optics while the gun is firing? Would I like to see the wheels turning on the tank? Sure, who wouldn't? -- but that has nothing to do with long-term playability. It sometimes sounds like computer game junkies, after they've seen all of CMBB's models and textures, and seen the snow and fog effects, and rotated and panned the camera, get bored rather quickly and move on to the next game without getting into the historical context and real-world tactical problem solving aspects of the game.

I can't think of a game type that could satisfy the 'immediate gratification crowd' for long.

[ April 10, 2003, 04:26 PM: Message edited by: MikeyD ]

[Apache]

FWIW I will buy Battlefield Command just because it looks so good and becuase it is a WWII era game BUT I suspect (and this is not a criticism as such) it will be more like a more realistic Medal of Honour type game than a tactical wargame. The CM series is excellent IMHO. Yes there are a few 'flaws' but the engine is getting on a bit now but they are working on a new one and I suspect that will be pretty spectacular. Flaws or not I will still defintely get CMAK and will look forward to it, more than I can say for a some other games I bought and regretted.

Where CM is concerned, when I get a little p'd off because something isn't exactly as I'd like, I just recall my days of table top wargaming. Doesn't matter how well you make the terrain, models and rules it still boils down to a table top without much atmosphere. CM changes ALL that AND gives a lot more than you can get out of most table top rules without rolling a million dice. Don't get me wrong, I don't think CM is perfect, but then rolling a 6 to see if a Pz IV KOs a Churchill which is just hull-down (but which you can see entirely on a board) is less than ideal also.

For me BFC and E-sim (Steel Beasts) have about got the WWII/modern warfare sewn up.

I might be tempted to get Flashpoint on my son's Xbox mind

[ April 10, 2003, 04:58 PM: Message edited by: Apache ]

[Jaws]

Originally posted by Moon:

</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Straif:

Looks like a crypto-advertisement to me :confused:

Straif

Yeah, a little, though I'm sure it's not intended. Certainly the game won't need this kind of pushing to sell well. It has a lot of promise and certainly looks very good. It has a great team behind it, too. I am sure it will reach a much bigger mass audience than CM ever did, but why should this be a bad thing for us?

Martin </font>

[Andreas]

Originally posted by Apache:

I might be tempted to get Flashpoint on my son's Xbox mind

Before you do that, don't you have an email to write?

Dawai dawai.

[LGMB]

Hmm. My mian concern, and yes, I thought I'd never say this, is for OSX compatilbility. Apple has been as unforgiving as possible to those users who continue with OS9, but since my latest Graphics card update, the Radeon 8500 Mac Edition, I hardly play CMBB at all!

I feel so dirty now.

[Kong]

I think Battlefield Command is everything we wanted GI Combat to be... and a whole lot more. I have high hopes for BC based on the developers. I do not see it as a direct competitor to CM, I will buy BC and CMX2.

I will agree that it should be a message that the CM graphics need a major change to stay current.

[tracer]

Hey I play Medal Of Honor, (multiplayer online) and I've checked out this "Battlefield Command", my question is how can you compare the two when they are dealing with differnt aspects of game play. It would be like comparing Medal Of Honor to CM, both are great games but they are differnt. It would be like comparing "WWII Online" with CM, differnt kind of game play, no comparision as far as I can see.

[-E]

Originally posted by Jaws:

A long time ago I made a post that I was concerned about the CM series. The reason was that I only noticed improvements of CMBO rather than developing a new engine or game. In my opinion the CM-series could die just like the Close Combat series if they didn't develop a new engine or game.

(BTS) Don't take this the wrong way, but I'm okay if CM dies. Because I have it! It has earned a permanent place on my HD. Just like Kampfgruppe did 18 years ago (and it still sits on my HD, in fact I played a scenario just 2 days ago! *grin*). To make any situation even better for me is CMBB (you might note a connection between CMBB & Kampfgruppe? *grin*)

Now as to CM dying... not gonna' happen. BTS has made too many of us loyal fans through not only their striving for perfection in the important matters, but also by standing by their products. Take for example the soon to be reissued strategy guide. BTS is probably going to take it in the shorts when they send out all those replacements for free, but they have earned so much more loyalty from it.

As to being compared to CC dying out... completely different crowd/genre/interest of gamers. 'Nuff said.

Note: all the above completely ignores the new engine being written as I type this!

[Jaws]

Originally posted by tracer:

Hey I play Medal Of Honor, (multiplayer online) and I've checked out this "Battlefield Command", my question is how can you compare the two when they are dealing with differnt aspects of game play. It would be like comparing Medal Of Honor to CM, both are great games but they are differnt. It would be like comparing "WWII Online" with CM, differnt kind of game play, no comparision as far as I can see.

Yes I agree but for who is this message??

[Volker]

Im a WWII Gamer most of all, tho im sure i'll get Star Wars Galaxies, and Planet Side (Cause WWII Online failed my hopes) I will always be interested in the next WWII Game. My dad and I are just hooked on CM, why? Cause its the first WWII game we can play TOGETHER! After years of watching me on games like Medal of Honor, Battlefield 1942, and WWII Online, now we are together, his army against mine. Of course we will buy just about every Combat Mission game that comes out. I plan to buy Battlefield Command too, but to bad my dad and I cant play each other, unless we link our computers.

But you guys are forgetting one other WWII Game you should be watching... http://www.panzers.com/english/index1.htm not to bad at all huh?

BTW, Im hoping CMX2's Graphics blow Battlefield Commands ones out of the water. I like Uber Graphics, but with the same CM Gameplay

[Ryan Crierie]

Originally posted by aragorn2002:

Well, perhaps they can beat the future versions of Combat Mission in graphics, but never in realism. I bet these are the same guys who've made IL-2 Stormowik and they couldn't resist to make the Soviet planes superior in almost all aspects. They will do the same with this game and probably spoil it. But it is a strong warning that Combat Mission needs better graphics to beat these guys.

What the HELL are you smoking, and can I have some?

German planes have a completely different

set of attributes, they're high speed boom

and zoom fighters designed to get in, waste

the enemy in one pass, and then go off into

the wild blue yonder, while Russian planes

were designed to be flown by ill-trained

pilots, so they're more into the turn and

burn school, and VERY stall and spin

resistant compared to the german planes.

All this is historical reality. We have a

word for you people on flight sim

boards: Luftwhiners.

[ April 11, 2003, 04:07 AM: Message edited by: Ryan Crierie ]

[Sergei]

Originally posted by Volker:

But you guys are forgetting one other WWII Game you should be watching... http://www.panzers.com/english/index1.htm not to bad at all huh?

Isn't Panzers, as it is a CDV product, more of a continuation to their earlier Sudden Strike line? Comparing this decription to CMBB is funny: "Create your combat force from over 100 finely detailed units, from a flame-throwing squad over a Soviet Stalin Organ rocket launcher through to a German Koenigstiger battle tank." But it still has helluva graphics. The first tank simulation I played some 15 years ago had monochrome graphics...