Not Buying CM2 because .....

[Les Gray]

I run Windows 2000, with a Geforce2 card with the latest Nvidia drivers. I turned down the FSAA to 2x and CM1 runs great, with none of the glitches that others have mentioned. The motherboard chipset is from Via and the CPU is an Athlon.

The major issue here is simply one of drivers. Nvidia will release drivers at some that should fix this sort of problem. Given that CM1 was out well before XP was in Beta, I hardly think this is cause to complain to BTS.

The issue with the Nvidia cards is not solely restricted to CMBO. I have a friend who bought a Geforce2 card to upgrade his old ATI card. One of his current favorite games is Shogun, which will not run at all most times, let alone with "glitches". His configuration is a Pentium III on a Via chipset motherboard. When another card, like an ATI Rage128 is used, then Shogun runs fine. He's running Windows 98SE. In addition, I have heard complaints from othe folks that such and such a game doesn't run with their new Geforce card.

These problems are not solely limited to an OS. Originally, when I upgraded my video card to the Geforce2, I had the same video anomalies running Windows 98SE and CMBO, that folks are complaining about with XP. A subsequent driver release from Nvidia, solved the problem.

I presume BTS will address the issue with XP and Nvidia cards, but very likely a driver release from Nvidia will make the issue moot.

Incidently, FWIW, although XP is rock solid, I am not sure I like the feeling that everything is laid out the way Microsoft would like it to be, leaving you with little choice sometimes in how you would like to use your computer. I have only been playing with it for a few days, but I feel like I'm being led in the way I use my computer and not the other way around. I don't like that at all. If there is no work around, I will not upgrade from 2000, until I am forced to becasue nothing runs on it anymore.

[Les Gray]

BTW;

<blockquote>quote:</font><hr>The great thing about WinXP from what I hear, is that you dont even OWN the copy you buy! Its like renting a service from Windows, where they take over soveriegnty of your computer. Remove 3 pieces of hardware, and the os shuts down. You will not be able to get it to run again until you call their tech staff? the hell??? <hr></blockquote>

If you read the EULA (end user license agreement) for any MS product, you will see that you do not own it either. As a matter of fact, virtually every piece of software out there, that is sold, sharewared, freewared etc is only licensed for use, not sold outright.

[Andrew H.]

<blockquote>quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Les Gray:

BTW;

If you read the EULA (end user license agreement) for any MS product, you will see that you do not own it either. As a matter of fact, virtually every piece of software out there, that is sold, sharewared, freewared etc is only licensed for use, not sold outright.<hr></blockquote>

I'm sure I'm not the only person who saw his dream of instant wealth vanish when I realized that CM license did not permit me to "rent or lease" CM to anyone else.

WRT CM, Nvidia, and XP, it's important to realize (as Shrullenhaft pointed out) that this is a driver problem. It doesn't matter how long XP was in beta (if it's not still in beta); the only thing that matters for CM's compatibility is the specific nvidia drivers for xp. My 81.23 (I think) drivers are dated Sept. 14. So even if BTS felt responsible to change the game to work with the new nvidia drivers, the earliest that they would have been able to do so would have been in september, assuming (1) that nvidia gave them a copy of the new drivers and (2) that they had an XP beta lying around and (3) the XP beta is the same version as the release.

Of course it's silly to expect BTS to do that...and even if they did, what happens if nvidia releases a new driver the following month?

As I said before, the problem is with nvidia's drivers, and nvidia has to come up with the solution.

[aka_tom_w]

I know this is NOT at all relevant to this thread but CMBO was designed on a MAC with RAVE 3D video support in mind and now Apple has abandoned RAVE and CMBO and CMBB won't run on MAC OSX, (THe latest Apple OS for the MAC, it is based on a BSD unix kernel) I'm not sure if that makes anyone feel any better, but now their latest offering (not even released yet, CMBB) is now suspected not to be able to run under Mac OSX because OSX does not support the RAVE API, at this time.

did that make anyone feel any better? (Linda??)

I didn't think so

oh well

-tom w

[themaltese]

'Very true about this XP / Microsoft / hidden agenda / they control your computer, not you / thing... Millenium was just a market study, but I fear that XP is the real thing. All in all, if not continuing to cater to the Win98, Win2000, and Mac crowd, BTS would perhaps be better off putting resources into the Linux crowd! :confused:

[offtaskagain]

The thing I really love about XP is these little sneaky error report loopholes they left in. It tells you to send the error report the OS has compiled, albeit giving you a choice, and gives some crap about what it alledgedly includes, but who knows if that's what's really in it? They could program those to search out any data they want.

[SuperTed]

<blockquote>quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Linda WarChest:

...I will not be buying CM2...

<hr></blockquote>

Linda,

I am sorry to hear of the troubles you are having with your video card drivers. However, it appears you want to blame BTS for problems they did not cause. Since you have uninstalled CM1 and have chosen not to purchase CM2, why are you still here?

[Amidst_Void]

Windows XP, to be released Thursday, touts improved security, resistance to crashing and a raft of new features. But it also comes with a technology called Product Activation that forces the customer to register the product with Microsoft, something that many people are reluctant to do for privacy reasons.

After a person registers Windows XP over the phone or through Microsoft's Web site, the software giant locks the operating system to that person's PC hardware configuration. If the customer changes or upgrades six components within 120 days, Windows XP can be disabled until the customer contacts Microsoft for reactivation.

ENTIRE ARTICLE HERE: http://news.cnet.com/news/0-1003-201-7532682-0.html?tag=lh

Read it, it's interesting. I have lost all respect for MS. I'm sticking with win98 or maybe purchase 2k.

[Priest]

First off, Scipio contact me privately to help your Win2k friend out. I have a Prophet card also and am loving CMBO on my Win2k box everyday.

Linda, I make my living in the computer industry and it is not BTS's responsibility to change CMBO but Microsoft's to issue compatibility source code changes or service packs. PERIOD! END OF DISCUSSION!!!

If you are willing to allow Microsoft to dictate what you are using and playing with some percieved notion that you are getting more use or ability out of an OS which I doubt you fully comprehend, then you do not deserve to enjoy BTS's offerings.

Sorry but until you realize the reality of the situation you are simply slandering BTS's good name.

[Gen-x87H]

Anywho from the few people I know who have played with Office XP it is the same crap. What is the most troubling is in the last beta some testers were getting locked out of thier computers for no reason.

What I am amazed at is the logci behind making the consumer call MS for a unlock. I have a feeling that they will grant the consumer 3 free calls and start charging 35 bucks a pop after that.

And we ask for this kind of crap when we buy thier OS in droves.

Gen

[Treeburst155]

I swap hardware in and out of my machine and reload the OS constantly. There's no way I could handle the XP hassle. I'll stay with my Win ME for as long as possible.

Treeburst155 out.

[Soddball]

Hurrah for the departure of Linda Nobrain. Linda is like that woman whose stupid son pulled a coke dispensing machine down onto him when he was trying to get a free drink. The son died, and the mother blamed the coke company for not securing their machines. It's not "What can I do about it?" but "Who can I blame?". Good riddance, you've got a brain the size of a weasel's wedding tackle.

[Tanaka]

Ok, thanks every one for giving me some advice and opinions regarding winXP (in particular this link http://news.cnet.com/news/0-1003-201-7532682-0.html?tag=lh was indeed interesting reading).

Being one of those "wicked" guys who likes his privacy, doesn't like market control and appreciates is freedom of choice... I now know very well, what my choice will be

Regarding the MacOS. I never had a Mac, but I know exactly what is the feeling when the "new OS version" is not compatible backwards... We feel cheated, isn't it ? When on top of that a company like BTS, that never gave up on the Mac, with its few resources (only one "hard" coder), gets that kind of blow... not good, not good... but you will see, they (BTS) will pull something out of the hat...

In a recent past, I've heard about MS owning Aple... is this true ? Could it be a disease ? who knows

With all this OS mess, BTS, how about reviewing that policy regarding the port for Linux option for CM3 ?

[dieseltaylor]

is it me? Whats with complaining about a great game 'cos MS XP and Nvidia have created a problem.

I understand that XP is machine specific when loaded ..... that is you cannot load it elsewhere or if you alter your configuration it may refuse to run.

On that basis you will not get me and many others to convert to XP. Come on MS has a hell of a monopoly now on operating systems and now its trying to put the screws on.

Given it likes to buy, or put out of business any great cometitor when is there a bid for BTS!! LOL

[Fangorn]

The real question I want to see answered is if CMBB will suffer from the same problems. If it is indeed Nvidia and/or a Microsoft problem, does it means CMBB won't escape from it?

[Linda WarChest]

I find it sad that BTS has not posted one response to this discussion. My direct question to BTS is as follows:

What has BTS done to combat the CM/XP/Nividia conflict problem ??

If BTS does not respond, I believe they just do not care !!

Regards,

Linda

[PeterNZer]

I find it sad that Linda has not posted one sensible response to this discussion. My direct question to Linda is as follows:

What has Linda done to understand the CM/XP/Nividia conflict problem ??

If Linda does not respond, I believe she just doesn't care !!

Regards,

Lindan

[Mark IV]

<blockquote>quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Lindan:

What has Linda done to understand the CM/XP/Nividia conflict problem ??<hr></blockquote>

Good one, Lindan.

CM/XP/Nividia = passenger/Ford/Firestone.

[Scipio]

<blockquote>quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Linda WarChest:

I did the right thing and uninstalled CM1.

<hr></blockquote>

What tells us everything about you we need to know...

After reading about this 'lock/unlock' bull**** and some other 'new features' of XP, I only want to say : no thanks!!!!

<blockquote>quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Doug Williams:

...because it's based on the W2K kernel instead of the W9X kernel, is much more stable than W9X/ME. What this means is no more "blue screen of death" reboots. It's also more networking friendly. It has built in zip support, so you don't need Winzip. It's media player can play DVDs, so you don't need 3rd party software for that. You can read all about it on the web...<hr></blockquote>

What's wrong with third party software - a minor company could make money with it? What would be CM without all the third party stuff???

Stability - I have already learned several years ago to live with the windows instability. Windows wasn't, isn't and IMO will never be the best or even a good OS. Bill Gates is a wise bussiness man, he made some deals that make it to the most used OS, so most sofware companies are forced to support it if they will sell their products. If CMBB would run on Linux, I would be the first to throw my Windows in the trashcan.

[Doug Williams]

Wow. Linda sure caused a stir. There were several reasonable responses, but the signal to noise ratio of this thread has gone way down the longer the thread becomes. I know you guys love CM and BTS. So do I. I know it's chic to portray Microsoft as Big Brother and beat your chest about how you're "not gonna take it", etc. , but the fact is XP is a good OS, the registration is really not that big a deal for those who actually buy the software. How often do we actually upgrade six pieces of hardware at once? I constantly upgrade my PC, but it's usually only one or two pieces at a time. Now, another fact is the GeForce series is a very popular chipset, and with the release of the GeForce 3, is likely to remain so. XP, I guarantee, is going to be a popular OS. Gateway is already shipping PCs with XP installed. The computer store where my wife works is getting requests for new PCs with XP installed. Now, it may not be fair to blame BTS for Nvidia's driver problems, but when push comes to shove, unless the situation is resolved, it's going to hurt sales of CMBO and CMBB. Joe Blow is not gonna like it when his new whiz bang computer with it's GeForce 3 video card won't run his brand new copy of CMBO/CMBB properly. Where's he gonna come to complain? Probably right here to BTS. If I were BTS, I would be on the telephone to Nvidia doing my best to get this situation worked out. We can help by e-mailing Nvidia ourselves and complaining about it. If they hear enough complaints, something will get done.

[Spook]

<blockquote>quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Mark IV:

CM/XP/Nividia = passenger/Ford/Firestone.<hr></blockquote>

Clever analogy, Mark IV. But in truth, there seems to be a much greater range of workarounds in the auto/tire markets than for new computer buyers.

I've recently checked the Dell & Gateway sites on their "options." Switching the OS to Win98 isn't one of them. This could probably be done through phone order, or at least some "dual-OS" arrangement could be requested through tech support. (Heck, with HD's of 40-60 gig or more now, there's certainly room to hold both.)

A good slug of new computer users, however, just buy into what they think their options are. So, the majority of new computer purchases will be loaded with Win XP alone, for better or worse.

So, Basic Marketing 101 dictates that BTS will inevitably have to adapt the CM system for Win XP. For CMBO? Nah. For CMBB? Recommended, at least as a future CMBB patch. And CM sequels afterwards? Definitely.

But seriously, Linda W, you're painting BTS into a Catch-22. At some point, patch support for any computer game comes to an end. For CMBO, that ended with v1.12 and with the promised TCP/IP feature effectively delivered. (Take time to review the "readme" file for the list of updates, and you'll get an idea how intensely that BTS worked to refine CMBO.) The patch version v1.12 came along many months before Win XP.

Please let us know how many other game companies are now scrambling to issue XP-compatibility patches (those who need to) for games more than a year old.

[Les Gray]

<blockquote>quote:</font><hr>I find it sad that BTS has not posted one response to this discussion. My direct question to BTS is as follows:

What has BTS done to combat the CM/XP/Nividia conflict problem ?? <hr></blockquote>

If BTS does not respond, I believe they just do not care !!

Regards,

Linda

Perhaps there has been no reply, because this issue has been discussed in the Tech Support forum already. Perhaps also, what the rest of us is saying is correct (the driver issue). No need for BTS to reinvent the wheel and repeat at nauseum, what they have already said.

<blockquote>quote:</font><hr>Wow. Linda sure caused a stir. There were several reasonable responses, but the signal to noise ratio of this thread has gone way down the longer the thread becomes. I know you guys love CM and BTS. So do I. I know it's chic to portray Microsoft as Big Brother and beat your chest about how you're "not gonna take it", etc. , but the fact is XP is a good OS, the registration is really not that big a deal for those who actually buy the software. <hr></blockquote>

<blockquote>quote:</font><hr>Wow. Linda sure caused a stir. There were several reasonable responses, but the signal to noise ratio of this thread has gone way down the longer the thread becomes. I know you guys love CM and BTS. So do I. I know it's chic to portray Microsoft as Big Brother and beat your chest about how you're "not gonna take it", etc. , but the fact is XP is a good OS, the registration is really not that big a deal for those who actually buy the software. <hr></blockquote>

As a computer retailer, I can tell you that I have many customers who are addicted to upgrades. They folks will upgrade to the latest, best video card, as soon as it comes out (yeah, more money than brains, sometimes). They will upgrade their CPU and motherboard, whenever the latest offering brings them considerably speed and power than what they have now. At the very minimum, these customers are upgrading every three months or less. So, that translates to two to five calls to Microsoft per year, if some of the upgrades do not trigger an activation issue (not all upgrades will. I don't know about you, but I don't like it! Microsoft is seemingly attempting to curtail our freedom of chioce in everything we do in computing. I still don't like that!

[Pak40]

Are you aware that XP has a Win 98 mode? Why don't you try and run it under that mode. If it doesn't work then come back and let us know.

[MrSpkr]

Geez -- I haven't seen so many people feeding a troll since I accidentally withdrew my wounded AD&D party into the wrong room in Pool of Radiance I.

What's the matter with you people? You have someone who has obviously just registered their username, has left no identifying or contact information in their profile, and has done nothing but excoriate BTS for a minor issue involving a new OS. This idiot first posted the problem in the tech forum on 10/28/01 at 1:29 pm. Less than three hours later, she cross posted it here (presumably because Steve, Charles and Matt had the discourtesy of not staying GLUED to the forum on a Sunday afternoon, thus depriving this pinhead of the instant response and gratification she by-gosh deserves). Less than 15 hours later (most of which was overnight on a Sunday evening), she 'finds it sad' that BTS hasn't mobilized the National Guard to address the problem which is apparently devastating her life.

Linda, you're acting like an idiot. I don't know whether you are TRULY an idiot (though I have my suspicions) because I have never met you. However, if this problem is so horrendous, and you are so miffed that BTS has not refused to sleep until they make you happy, then uninstalling Combat Mission was probably a good plan for you.

Oh yes, since you uninstalled the game, please, feel free to move along to some other forum whose developers are willing to cater to your every whim on command.

BTS ain't perfect, but your demands and petty sharpshooting are ludicrous.

Steve

[ 10-29-2001: Message edited by: MrSpkr ]</p>

[Hoopenfaust2]

Doesn't it hurt when someone nails the best game ever made. I love how we ALL stand up to someone who messes with our fun.

Get a Mac...without Mac OS X