GenSplatton Posted August 2, 2001 Share Posted August 2, 2001 Lately, I've been running in to more and more flak vehicles, mainly trucks. If I remember correctly, there have been various threads on the fact that they are modeled poorly in CM. Anyhow, they have been wreaking havoc with my armor when I play the American side. Stuarts, Greyhounds, M-8s, even Shermans fall to these things way to easily due to their high rate of fire and near indestructible nature. They seem especially unbalancing when playing short 75 rules or smaller value games where few armor pieces can be purchased. How do you folks destroy these things? I know people have mentioned Artillery, but I hate to waste a precious and limited resource like that. Not to mention, a good player isn't going to let them sit long enough to be bombarded. Tanks seem ill0suited in that they get off one shot at most before the flak gun tears them up. And they seem to devestate troop formations. What's the key against them, short of asking folks not to use them? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marlow Posted August 2, 2001 Share Posted August 2, 2001 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by GenSplatton: How do you folks destroy these things? I know people have mentioned Artillery, but I hate to waste a precious and limited resource like that. Not to mention, a good player isn't going to let them sit long enough to be bombarded. Tanks seem ill0suited in that they get off one shot at most before the flak gun tears them up. And they seem to devestate troop formations. What's the key against them, short of asking folks not to use them?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Infantry fire is the most effective way. I got three with small arms in one recent battle (along with one from a 60mm mortar, but I think that was a fluke). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pvt. Ryan Posted August 2, 2001 Share Posted August 2, 2001 Would it work to area target right next to them so that your tanks fire HE? The blast of a 75mm should be enough to take them out. I've disabled tanks that way. It lets you be just outside of LOS so that the enemy can't fire directly back at you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Subvet Posted August 2, 2001 Share Posted August 2, 2001 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by GenSplatton: What's the key against them, short of asking folks not to use them?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> There isn't really a key against them, that's why you ask folks not to use them! Infantry works against them, but a good player wouldn't let your infantry close to them. The AA trucks are very poorly modeled and that is the reason these things aren't allowed in most games by people that know better. It is almost a given that these things aren't allowed in tournament games, although I still make sure to state the obvious up front. Anybody that would use these in a game that knew full well the problem with them is someone I would never play again. It is pretty much cheating in my opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Schrullenhaft Posted August 2, 2001 Share Posted August 2, 2001 Just as an FYI, the problem of Flak vehicles being nearly immune to HE has been fixed in CMBB. Of course exploiting this particular invulnerability in CMBO is gamey if either player is aware of this shortcoming. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aka_tom_w Posted August 2, 2001 Share Posted August 2, 2001 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Pvt. Ryan: Would it work to area target right next to them so that your tanks fire HE? The blast of a 75mm should be enough to take them out. I've disabled tanks that way. It lets you be just outside of LOS so that the enemy can't fire directly back at you.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> actually no, that is the problem niether HE or AP has much efect on them. small arms up close seems to KO them better than any thing else. -tom w Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Panzer Posted August 2, 2001 Share Posted August 2, 2001 whoops, apologies... [ 08-02-2001: Message edited by: Peter Panzer ] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erwin Posted August 2, 2001 Share Posted August 2, 2001 Jeez - now I really feel bad about beating up on you GenSplatton. Ok, I swear I'll be good from now on... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erwin Posted August 2, 2001 Share Posted August 2, 2001 For what it's worth, small arms fire seems v effective at killing the AA trucks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soddball Posted August 2, 2001 Share Posted August 2, 2001 105 arty. Guaranteed. If I had somewhere to post screenshots to, I'd show you Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GenSplatton Posted August 3, 2001 Author Share Posted August 3, 2001 Acutally Erwin, yours was irrelvant in our game in such that I never got LOS to it. So, had it been modeled exactly right, it wouldn't have mattered. I never saw it to get a shot off. However, it has turned the tide in several other battles that I think I would have won easily otherwise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Enoch Posted August 3, 2001 Share Posted August 3, 2001 I've never had the pleasure of playing against these, but if small arms fire works well against them then I'd think that MG fire would do a good job as well. Especially the .50 caliber. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Triumvir Posted August 3, 2001 Share Posted August 3, 2001 Maybe I've been lucky, but I've never run into an uber-flak-ver-trucken. All the SdKfzs I run into or have were killed very quickly by either bow MGs or HE. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vanir Ausf B Posted August 3, 2001 Share Posted August 3, 2001 I took one out with a 2 inch mortar in a recent game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spookster Posted August 3, 2001 Share Posted August 3, 2001 Over at Tourney House, where every player seeks to min-max out the ying-yang, we've discovered the following two powerful tactics vs. the gamey German truck AA guns: 1) The greatest counter to the Ak-Ak tactic is the .50 MG. They knock them out in droves. 2) Also, you might like to try placing an officer on a hill with a 3inch Mortar behind (and in command range.) When the Ak-Ak come a-calling, you unload. Good luck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Louie the Toad Posted August 3, 2001 Share Posted August 3, 2001 Just finished (last night) a pre made scenario where I knocked out 2 of these 37 mm truck mounted AAA. One by a HQ squad at absolutely maximum range so it was by the long range rifle fire of approximately 4 soldiers. The other AAA was taken out by a well placed shot of a hidden sniper. All of this to the great dismay of my pbem opponent. Lucky Toad Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Priest Posted August 3, 2001 Share Posted August 3, 2001 Never had a problem myself. In just the last 2-3 months I can remember off board artillery (105mm), on board artillery (3-inch mortar), a rifle squad, a greyhound, a Priest, and a 76mm armed Sherman all taking out the Flak Trucks in scenarios. In fact the only time I have seen these vehicles do anything worthwhile (other than AA support) was when I used one against a platoon of infantry at long range. It was eventually taken out by a Sherman or M10 though Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pvt. Ryan Posted August 3, 2001 Share Posted August 3, 2001 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by aka_tom_w: actually no, that is the problem niether HE or AP has much efect on them. small arms up close seems to KO them better than any thing else. -tom w<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Oh. I thought the problem was that the AI fired AP rounds at them, which had no effect. I didn't know they were invulnerable to HE too. I haven't had much experience with them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FFE Posted August 3, 2001 Share Posted August 3, 2001 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Louie the Toad: The other AAA was taken out by a well placed shot of a hidden sniper.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Are you sure it was the sniper? You can line up 100 elite sharpshooters at 200 meters facing a 7/2 to no effect. It's amazing what boredom can do to the psyche. All the elite sharpshooters blazing away, simply wasting ammo. A 7/2 is cheaper than a 37 AA gun. They both have the same ammo load out. Hull downed (reverse sloped since they don't have true hull down status) 7/2’s are pretty tough to knock out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ryddle Posted August 3, 2001 Share Posted August 3, 2001 I'm playing against a guy who has at least 2 of the 30mm variety a good distance from my lines. btw, we specifically agreed that we could use them... even knowing the complaints about them. I made sure that I had roughly 3 60mm mortars per flack vehicle and they each go down. fairly quickly. Of course I might change my opinion if he's still hiding some and I run out of mortar rounds. One thing that might have made a difference is that he was in scattered trees so perhaps a treeburst help take them out? It would be interesting to see how effective they are if the opponent moves them about so you can't track them (if you are using HQ supplied LOS to your crews). FWIW, -R Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arsenal Posted August 3, 2001 Share Posted August 3, 2001 My experiances with them and as other here have said, is that .50cals knock them out pretty quick. Also if you use direct HE fire on them from a tank,the bigger the blast the quicker it will knock it out.So something like a sherman 105 or churchill 95mm is better to use on them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arsenal Posted August 3, 2001 Share Posted August 3, 2001 D'oh double post [ 08-03-2001: Message edited by: JAZZA ] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Louie the Toad Posted August 3, 2001 Share Posted August 3, 2001 Dear FFE, Upon reading your query I rechecked. The sniper did knock out a 37mm AA that was unlimbered in a foxhole. The 7/2 I thought the sniper knocked out was actually shot up by a squad. The other 7/2 was indeed kayoed by a HQ unit at extreme range. Corrected, but still happy Toad Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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