Capitalistdoginchina Posted October 31, 2001 Share Posted October 31, 2001 I have noticed that when a tank is shocked from the loss of its TC it only suffers from delayed movements and target aquisition, the tank will still fire (Even seconds after being shocked) its main gun and MG without any accuracy penalty. I would have thought that with the TC brains decorating the interior all hell and panicwould take place........for a minute or 2 anyway. The tank will also follow its movement plot for that turn as normal. I do believe that this will be corrected in CM 2 with the addition of crew moral. Anyone else made any similar observations? CDIC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sledge59 Posted October 31, 2001 Share Posted October 31, 2001 I pretty sure that experience level affects shock length. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kingfish Posted October 31, 2001 Share Posted October 31, 2001 I agree, they should be useless for at least 10-15 turns. Better yet, once shocked the A.I. should take over and withdraw them off the map. Good idea, Cap Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aka_tom_w Posted October 31, 2001 Share Posted October 31, 2001 <blockquote>quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Kingfish: I agree, they should be useless for at least 10-15 turns. Better yet, once shocked the A.I. should take over and withdraw them off the map. Good idea, Cap <hr></blockquote> I have no reall basis in fact or experience to disagree with this but I do disagree none the less. "they should be useless for at least 10-15 turns." I would agree for a green crew that could be a worst case scenario, in the event of the death of the TC BUT if an elite crew suffers a minor grazing wound to the TC and he becomes a casualty and is shocked but not killed, then the 15-20 sec "shock Delay" seems quite normal. Lets remember, there could be a REALLY big difference between in the behaviour of a shocked tank, between a TC that gets killed (JFK'd by an AP round for instance) and a TC that takes a stray round from small arms fire to the arm. Perhaps a wider range of shocked tank behaviour is needed. and as mentioned, with the new tank crew morale concept in CMBB I think this has probably been considered. -tom w [ 10-31-2001: Message edited by: aka_tom_w ]</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Capitalistdoginchina Posted October 31, 2001 Author Share Posted October 31, 2001 I think Kingfish was jesting, we have just finished a great battle and after suffering a fron penetration on my panther (AFV went into shock) it almost immediately fired back and took out the sherman. I take the point about injury, but if the crew is shocked i would imagine the injury to be worse than a grazed arm.......a grazed groin maybe I like the idea of wider range of shock Tom...,, but i guess with crew moral coming in CMBB panic and scared shi*less could be on the cards??? CDIC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doug Williams Posted October 31, 2001 Share Posted October 31, 2001 I once had a sharpshooter shock a tank on turn one. The tank just sat there for the rest of the game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hensworth Posted October 31, 2001 Share Posted October 31, 2001 I've posted it elsewhere but got no reply, so here it goes again. I noticed in a game with a lot of shocked halftracks that they remained shocked for the duration (50 odd turns). However, they promptly executed all movement orders, but of course couldn't fire anymore. Is this normal ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cueball Posted October 31, 2001 Share Posted October 31, 2001 I've played this game for quite a while now, and have noticed several different effects of a crew being "shocked" -- Stug III penetrated by a bazooka round,and the Stug just sat there for the remainder of the turn. Halfway through next turn, it continues it's plotted move. M10 was shocked, and sat there for remainder of game. Tiger crew shocked by commander hit. (I am guessing a sniper) Paused briefly and continued movement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeyD Posted October 31, 2001 Share Posted October 31, 2001 An experienced tank crew (in real life) should be trained for all crew positions. I've heard tales of the exhausted and half-suffocated loader slumping into the gunner's seat while the gunner takes a turn at loading. The tiger with it's heavy shells was especially hard on the loaders. In a 'fight or die' situation I can well imagine the decapitated commander being pulled down to the bottom of the turret floor and the bow mg operator scrambling back to take up whichever position needs filling. For a tank to just sit there for 10 turns something REALLY ugly must'a happened in that vehicle (intestines all over the drving controls for example). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Massattack Posted October 31, 2001 Share Posted October 31, 2001 Re Sgt Kelly's experience with the shocked HT's, I have had similar experiences. My guess is that the Commander is also the operator of the MG, and when he is injured/killed the HT can no longer fire....No other crewmember to take his place, but can still function normally for movement orders. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Affentitten Posted November 1, 2001 Share Posted November 1, 2001 <blockquote>quote:</font><hr>An experienced tank crew (in real life) should be trained for all crew positions. I've heard tales of the exhausted and half-suffocated loader slumping into the gunner's seat while the gunner takes a turn at loading. The tiger with it's heavy shells was especially hard on the loaders. In a 'fight or die' situation I can well imagine the decapitated commander being pulled down to the bottom of the turret floor and the bow mg operator scrambling back to take up whichever position needs filling. For a tank to just sit there for 10 turns something REALLY ugly must'a happened in that vehicle (intestines all over the drving controls for example). <hr></blockquote> I hate to shatter your idea, but there aint that much room to start swapping positions inside most tanks, especially if there are deadweight bodies to pull around. My only experience is with T-55s, but I can tell you there that there is no way that the commander, gunner and driver would be able to swap roles without getting out of the tank. In many cases, the driving compartment is just inaccessible from the other part of the tank. Likewise, bodies lying elsewhere would severely limit the traverse of the turret because the breech of the main weapon needs room to move. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moriarty Posted November 1, 2001 Share Posted November 1, 2001 <blockquote>quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Sgt_Kelly: I've posted it elsewhere but got no reply, so here it goes again. I noticed in a game with a lot of shocked halftracks that they remained shocked for the duration (50 odd turns). However, they promptly executed all movement orders, but of course couldn't fire anymore. Is this normal ?<hr></blockquote> If the HT's crew is two people and the gunner gets whacked, the vehicle will still move around, tow guns, ferry squads, etc., but there'll be no one to pull the trigger on the MG. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vanir Ausf B Posted November 1, 2001 Share Posted November 1, 2001 I don't have a problem with this. If a TC gets whacked I don't see why the driver would need to suddenly stop the tank. I also don't see why it couldn't continue to fire at an already spotted target. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kingfish Posted November 1, 2001 Share Posted November 1, 2001 <blockquote>quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Affentitten: Likewise, bodies lying elsewhere would severely limit the traverse of the turret because the breech of the main weapon needs room to move.<hr></blockquote> Can't they just load the dead guy into the breech and blow him out with the next round? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moriarty Posted November 1, 2001 Share Posted November 1, 2001 <blockquote>quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Kingfish: Can't they just load the dead guy into the breech and blow him out with the next round?<hr></blockquote> Tube 1, fire. Tube 2, fire. Bodies away, sir. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Affentitten Posted November 1, 2001 Share Posted November 1, 2001 <blockquote>quote:</font><hr> Can't they just load the dead guy into the breech and blow him out with the next round?<hr></blockquote> As long as his head is no wider than 88mm. Or smaller for Sherman crews. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amidst_Void Posted November 1, 2001 Share Posted November 1, 2001 <blockquote>quote:</font><hr> I take the point about injury, but if the crew is shocked i would imagine the injury to be worse than a grazed arm.......a grazed groin maybe CDIC[/QB]<hr></blockquote> Oh, for the love of God, why did you have to add the "winking smile"? It couldn't be more obvious you were just "joshin'", it would have been more humorous without the winking. Anyone who doesn't sense the sarcasm doesn't deserve to sense the sarcasm. Now I know EXACTLY why the Penger's don't use any smiles at all, smiles are mainly targeted to people who "don't get stuff". I'm through with smiles. [ 10-31-2001: Message edited by: Amidst_Void ]</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hensworth Posted November 1, 2001 Share Posted November 1, 2001 <blockquote>quote:</font><hr> If the HT's crew is two people and the gunner gets whacked, the vehicle will still move around, tow guns, ferry squads, etc., but there'll be no one to pull the trigger on the MG. <hr></blockquote> I understand that. But why does the vehicle continue to be shown as shocked ? I believe this was not always the case. A shocked vehicle used to refuse to budge for a while, but when it got going again its status changed back to OK at the same time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kanonier Reichmann Posted November 1, 2001 Share Posted November 1, 2001 <blockquote>quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Moriarty: If the HT's crew is two people and the gunner gets whacked, the vehicle will still move around, tow guns, ferry squads, etc., but there'll be no one to pull the trigger on the MG.<hr></blockquote> This posting raises an interesting question. Why is it with a MG Bren Gun Carrier it can't still fire its MG after suffering a single crew casualty? There are still 2 crew members left and although I would imagine the effectiveness of the MG should be degraded without the loader, for some reason the damn thing can't fire at all. Surely it doesn't take 2 people to drive that damn halftrack wannabe. :confused: Regards Jim R. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Capitalistdoginchina Posted November 2, 2001 Author Share Posted November 2, 2001 My first double post! [ 11-02-2001: Message edited by: Captitalistdoginchina ]</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Capitalistdoginchina Posted November 2, 2001 Author Share Posted November 2, 2001 <blockquote>quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Amidst_Void: Oh, for the love of God, why did you have to add the "winking smile"? It couldn't be more obvious you were just "joshin'", it would have been more humorous without the winking. Anyone who doesn't sense the sarcasm doesn't deserve to sense the sarcasm. Now I know EXACTLY why the Penger's don't use any smiles at all, smiles are mainly targeted to people who "don't get stuff". I'm through with smiles. [ 10-31-2001: Message edited by: Amidst_Void ]<hr></blockquote> I would prefer if you replied to the topic and post instead of how i posted. How i use smilies is up to me. I notice you also use em a lot like this post you made just today on another thread: Originally posted by Amidst_Void: Oh my God SuperTed flat out said it!!! It is the DEMO!!! Come on people, peace together the puzzle. Look, what else could "technical difficulties" mean. Just read it to yourself. Technical difficulties...demo! Technical difficulties...demo! Technical difficulties...demo! Oh my God it's coming! HOORAY! AHHHHHHH!!! :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: Edited due to to shortage of :eek: [ 10-30-2001: Message edited by: Amidst_Void So pray tell - why is it ok for you to use smilies to enhance humour, yet you chastise others for the same? CDIC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gyrene Posted November 2, 2001 Share Posted November 2, 2001 <blockquote>quote:</font><hr>Moriarty spake thus:If the HT's crew is two people and the gunner gets whacked, the vehicle will still move around, tow guns, ferry squads, etc., but there'll be no one to pull the trigger on the MG. <hr></blockquote> On a PBEM game I'm playing my shocked HT's (German) will not take any passengers, I wonder if I'm doing something wrong, but I think I have used shocked American HT's to load & move troops before. Btw Moriarty, it just dawned on me that I forgot to thank you for the excellent map you made for me and Abbott's Blood Hamster match a couple of months back. Severe lapse of manners there. Gyrene Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amidst_Void Posted November 2, 2001 Share Posted November 2, 2001 <blockquote>quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Captitalistdoginchina: I would prefer if you replied to the topic and post instead of how i posted. How i use smilies is up to me. I notice you also use em a lot like this post you made just today on another thread: Originally posted by Amidst_Void: Oh my God SuperTed flat out said it!!! It is the DEMO!!! Come on people, peace together the puzzle. Look, what else could "technical difficulties" mean. Just read it to yourself. Technical difficulties...demo! Technical difficulties...demo! Technical difficulties...demo! Oh my God it's coming! HOORAY! AHHHHHHH!!! :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: Edited due to to shortage of :eek: [ 10-30-2001: Message edited by: Amidst_Void So pray tell - why is it ok for you to use smilies to enhance humour, yet you chastise others for the same? CDIC<hr></blockquote> Well, that WAS an earlier post. One CAN learn from his mistakes. No need to take it so seriously though, we're all here to have fun (don't quote me on that). It was more of a "bitching" than an attack, I guess you didn't catch that, maybe I should have added smiles for you. [ 11-02-2001: Message edited by: Amidst_Void ]</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Capitalistdoginchina Posted November 2, 2001 Author Share Posted November 2, 2001 Ok Mr. Void, maybe i did take it a bit too seriously. Thanks for your appology on the other thread. Back to the topic, maybe if CMBB has additional hit or penetration info such as "Upper Hull penetration, driver wounded" or gunner wounded, we could assess shock in a different way and more importantly how it would effect the AFV. CDIC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Holien Posted November 2, 2001 Share Posted November 2, 2001 H Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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