MOD MADNESS -- Time for a rethink??

[Manx]

With the release of so many mods with so many optional "extras", i really think it's time that we got our heads together and formed a "committee" of some kind that can come up with a standard format (and a proggie that reads it) that all mod releases adhere to, and with ONE package that can handle the installation/maintenance of them.

With the recent release of CMMOS (a great program!) we have come a long way to making it easier to achieve this and if this proggie could be further enhanced, then it could be the answer to all our prayers. If CMMOS's "rulesets" can be expanded and refined, then i think this could be a good way to go.

Speaking as the webmaster of a CM site, i don't want to get into a position where mod-makers are having to submit different versions of the same mod, just to be compatible with whatever mod managers are available.

1 vote for -- One format, One program!

MHO

[ 09-02-2001: Message edited by: Manx ]

[Pvt. Ryan]

Sounds good to me. I haven't used the mod manager, so I can't comment on it, but from what I have read so far CMMOS sounds like a very powerful program capable of handling all the options that are included. However, since, AFAIK, it is not Mac compatible and won't work for everyone.

[Pzman]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Pvt. Ryan:

it is not Mac compatible and won't work for everyone.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Thats the worst part! Some mac programmer make something like it or somefink!

[offtaskagain]

CMMOS defenitely can be ammended to accomodate new mods. I was kind of thinking about proposing the same idea myself, with a site hosting the latest rulesets to accomodate new mods.

[Maximus]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Panzerman:

Thats the worst part! Some mac programmer make something like it or somefink!<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Or even better yet, Rob. Spend a fraction of the money and buy a PC and quit your cryin'. Oh what was it that I used to say, oh yes..."What's a Mac again?"

No offense. But more often then not, it is proven that Macs just don't make good gaming machines because of all their odd file formats.

But anyway...back to the question at hand.

Well I'm obviously biased with the CMMOS as being one of the testers, but like Pvt. Ryan said, I never used the CM Mod Manager either. I always used the batch files as I found them just as easy to use as anything else.

So CMMOS just makes it just that more easier. And it's just as easy, once you figure it out, to write in new mods, such as grass textures, into the program. And these first basic vehicle rules any vehicle that uses the standard "batch file" suffixes will work with these.

As with Andrew's Super Action Pack #4, I noticed it is in a rather mess as its packaged for CM Mod Manager. Someone already mentioned they had trouble finding the Infantry tunic files.

However, for those of us in the CMMOS "beta testing loop", ,making a CMMOS compatible mod is no big deal and is actually easier to do than to make a CM Mod Manager mod.

From now on, any Allied vehicle is going to be CMMOS compatible. Even Shane "Feldgrau" Peterson, who has been making CM Mod Manager style mods, has even said that all his new ones are going to be CMMOS compatible as a given.

[ 09-02-2001: Message edited by: Maximus ]

[SS Sniper]

1 vote for -- One format, One program

Sound good to me

As Mazimus said

"Well I'm obviously biased with the CMMOS as being one of the testers, but like Pvt. Ryan said, I never used the CM Mod Manager either. I always used the batch files as I found them just as easy to use as anything else."

Goes for me also

SS Peiper

[ 09-02-2001: Message edited by: SS Peiper ]

[Wolfe]

And while we're at it could we please have more descriptive file names. File '13109.zip', while a very nice looking BMP, doesn't tell me a whole lot about what mod it's for or who did it. OTOH 'GEM_SnowyWhiteWashed_M4s_hr.zip' pretty much pins down what mod it is as well as whose it is. Also note that the filename doesn't contain any nasty SPACES which are translated into the annoying '%20' character string that you see listed on various web and ftp sites. One other nicety about putting the author's initials first is all mods by one author will be grouped together in a directory when sorted by name. Handy, eh?

[bartles and James] Thank you for your support. [/bartles and James]

- Chris

P.S. Sorry for foisting the mods list onto ya, Manx. I guess you now know exactly why I didn't want it!

[ 09-02-2001: Message edited by: Wolfe ]

[Manx]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Wolfe:

And while we're at it could we please have more descriptive file names. File '13109.zip', while a very nice looking BMP, doesn't tell me a whole lot about what mod it's for or who did it. OTOH 'GEM_SnowyWhiteWashed_M4s_hr.zip' pretty much pins down what mod it is as well as whose it is. Also note that the filename doesn't contain any nasty SPACES which are translated into the annoying '%20' character string that you see listed on various web and ftp sites. One other nicety about putting the author's initials first is all mods by one author will be grouped together in a directory when sorted by name. Handy, eh?

[bartles and James]Thank you for your support.[/bartles and James]

- Chris<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I'll vote for that too! CM2 is just around the corner...can you imagine the mess were going to be in when all that East Front camo gets splashed everywhere!

Somefink needs to be done NOW!

[Wolfe]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Manx:

CM2 is just around the corner...can you imagine the mess were going to be in when all that East Front camo gets splashed everywhere!<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yes! Excellent point. Although I'll most likely create a new directory for the CM2 mods. Aw, Hell. Who am I kidding? I'll probably have to get a whole new hard drive for 'em.

- Chris

[Dogface21]

I agree wholeheartedly, and I think CMMOS is the way to do it, I do have a few questions about it tho. For starters, when I chose Ami camo for my shermans, I got some cross bred mutt, black camo hull, green turret, ect.ect. Any ideas on what thats about?

I think that we need to standardize our MODSand managers and do it before CM2, or all MOD hell will break loose.

Anyone wanna take a guess at how soon theyll sell through all the copies of CM2 and be on back order? Im betting they will have enough for a month before BTS runs out, any way to pre-order?

[Michael Emrys]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Panzerman:

Thats the worst part! Some mac programmer make something like it or somefink!<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I've been having good luck with MCM3 so far. Any problems with that?

Michael

[benpark]

"...odd file formats" on Macs? I run Virtual PC for some other, older PC games, and it is a real pain in the rectilinear to install and run. PC's are made for androids. BTS is great for keeping CM going for Mac, and I will readily buy anything they put on the market WW2 related. If all the great mod makers out there want to convert to this new, easier format-thats fine, I will miss a lot of stuff that has made this game that much better if it means an easier time for all the PC users out there. But cmon, maxi mus-arent we already marginalized enough for you to start feeling superior?

[Michael Dorosh]

Is it just me, or is CMMOS resembling a way for a select group of modders to ensure that only their mods get widely distributed/used?

Will the software at some point be expanded to provide some modicum of user-friendliness for those who do not wish to download only these "CMMOS-friendly" mods?

For example - if someone modded two different texture sets for the US jeep, would it ever be possible to simply assign those new mod bmps certain file-names, and have a CMMOS-type program recognize them rather than having to decipher "rulesets" etc. in order to get the manager to work?

[Brian]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Michael Dorosh:

Is it just me, or is CMMOS resembling a way for a select group of modders to ensure that only their mods get widely distributed/used?

Will the software at some point be expanded to provide some modicum of user-friendliness for those who do not wish to download only these "CMMOS-friendly" mods?

For example - if someone modded two different texture sets for the US jeep, would it ever be possible to simply assign those new mod bmps certain file-names, and have a CMMOS-type program recognize them rather than having to decipher "rulesets" etc. in order to get the manager to work?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

You mean that isn't how it works? I've been busy assigning/designing my own rule sets for existing mods that either I or others have already done. Nothing hard about designing a ruleset nor about assigning my own file names/suffixes.

While it will be nice, in the future if mods come out which adhere to a "standard", there isn't anything stopping people from doing what they want with CMMOS, as far as I can tell.

[Pvt. Ryan]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Michael Dorosh:

Is it just me, or is CMMOS resembling a way for a select group of modders to ensure that only their mods get widely distributed/used?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I don't think that's it at all. CMMOS just replaces the batch file method, so if you didn't use the batch files you don't have to use CMMOS. CMMOS lets the mod authors include extra options or versions that would be a pain to have to manually swap in and out all the time. Just as with the batch file mods you can pick the optional files you want and use them. You just won't be able to easily swap different versions of a vehicle in and out. Also, every other mod can be made to work with CMMOS if one wants to include that mod as one of the options. Or, if you prefer that particular mod you can just use it without CMMOS just as you would have before CMMOS. CMMOS overcomes CM's limitation of having only one version of a vehicle in your BMP folder at a time, and it does it with a great deal of flexibility and ease. One great thing about CMMOS is you don't have to set up batch files, shortcuts, and icons. A CMMOS ready mod will have all that taken care of. All you would have to do is paste the new files into the bmp folder. At some point I am going to try to understand how the rule sets work and make the ones that I want if they aren't already available.

P.S. Can we please stop the PC v. Mac stuff. It's getting old.

[ 09-03-2001: Message edited by: Pvt. Ryan ]

[mensch]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Maximus:

Or even better yet, Rob. Spend a fraction of the money and buy a PC and quit your cryin'. Oh what was it that I used to say, oh yes..."What's a Mac again?"<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I dub thee Sir TROLL

[Berlichtingen]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Maximus:

No offense. But more often then not, it is proven that Macs just don't make good gaming machines because of all their odd file formats.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

No offense? When offense was clearly intended? I begin to suspect that you were bitten by a Mac as a child (what was that... yesterday?). Your one man anti-Mac crusade grows tired.

[Lt Bull]

I am a "mod slut" and I love the work that some of you modders out there are doing. Where would we be without you? :eek:

I also have the same mod-addiction for another game, European Air War, where equally as talented mod-artists have created top notch mods and have created a mod-frenzied culture that has kept that game fresh for a very long time.

So much so, that some very good programs have evolved to handle the various mods available for EAW. A vast majority of that game is moddable including the aircraft 3D models, the skins, the aircraft flight characteristics, the weapons, the terrain and the sounds.

One program that has recently been released and one I have been impressed with is called Skins n' More (SnM) and you can read about it at

Relent's EAW Skins Page.

It is a little bit more advanced than a standard mod manager. Apart from standard JPG previews/text descriptions of graphics mods, you are also able to fully create "themes" which encompass whatever mods you like in them. I can already imagine creating a customised "Normandy" theme that would incorporate Maguas fantastic Normandy mods along with any other vehicle mods or sounds etc. which can all be installed AND then uninstalled back to some set "default" setup with just a few clicks.

The mod files themselves are kept in a separate SnM directory. Mods for particular aircraft are kept in their own folder within a directory named after that aircraft. Once placed under the correct directory, the mod is then registered and becomes available for easy installation and uninstallation. SnM More "remembers" what it has installed and can unistall the mod from the directory it installed to.

This unistallation feature may not immediately sound like a useful thing in CM as ALL BMPs are required in the CM BMP directory (except winter mods), whereas in EAW, if you remove or delete a mod file from the game directory you dont need to replace it, as it automatically defaults to the correcponding file found on the CD.

The great thing about SnM is that it is VERY flexible, customisable (is that real word?) and easy to use.

Anyway, you don't really need EAW to install the SnM program to run it and see how it works. I would urge any of you that are interested in developing a "standard, one-program-does-it-all CM mod manager program" to download SnM and check it out (its only a few megs).

I believe it has several features which would work a treat for CM and its plethora of mods.

Yes, I do think having one well designed standard mod manager program that can do it all would be a good thing, but it doesnt necessarily mean that mod makers would have to go out of their way to adhere to some bizarre file naming/mod packaging format. SnM is an example of that!

Kepp on modding! :cool:

Lt Bull

[Clubfoot]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR> As with Andrew's Super Action Pack #4, I noticed it is in a rather mess as its packaged for CM Mod Manager. Someone already mentioned they had trouble finding the Infantry tunic files.

However, for those of us in the CMMOS "beta testing loop", ,making a CMMOS compatible mod is no big deal and is actually easier to do than to make a CM Mod Manager mod.

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Ya know, Max. Besides the constant Mac bashing, the recurrent TwoShed's Mod Manager bashing is quite silly as well.

Rather a mess. Nonsense. Mod Manager files are quite tidy.

Easier to make a CMMOS compatible mod? Well, I've made both and this statement just ain't true.

It amazes me you could repeatedly sh!t on a program you've never seen or bothered to download. It's really no wonder that TwoShed's gave up on updating his Manager, I suppose.

[lcm1947]

You probably weren't directing this post and your question to us that don't have a thing to do with making mods but if just in case you did want everybody's opinion please put me down for agreeing that it would be a - Good Thing.

[Andreas]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Clubfoot:

Ya know, Max. Besides the constant Mac bashing, the recurrent TwoShed's Mod Manager bashing is quite silly as well.

Rather a mess. Nonsense. Mod Manager files are quite tidy.

Easier to make a CMMOS compatible mod? Well, I've made both and this statement just ain't true.

It amazes me you could repeatedly sh!t on a program you've never seen or bothered to download. It's really no wonder that TwoShed's gave up on updating his Manager, I suppose.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Clubfoot, I totally agree. I am in constant amazement that Maximus has not been banned yet, but I guess there is still hope. He has absolutely nothing to contribute to the board, except his constant trolling, and putting the work of others down.

[Maximus]

[ 09-03-2001: Message edited by: Maximus ]

[Maximus]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Michael Dorosh:

Is it just me, or is CMMOS resembling a way for a select group of modders to ensure that only their mods get widely distributed/used?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Not at all.

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Will the software at some point be expanded to provide some modicum of user-friendliness for those who do not wish to download only these "CMMOS-friendly" mods?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Technically, there isn't anything called CMMOS-friendly. All these mods are are just batch file mods with a new C++ program to install them instead of a DOS based batch file.

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>For example - if someone modded two different texture sets for the US jeep, would it ever be possible to simply assign those new mod bmps certain file-names, and have a CMMOS-type program recognize them rather than having to decipher "rulesets" etc. in order to get the manager to work?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

That is the way it works. Take your example, the jeep. What sorts of different textures do you want? US, Camo, French? All you have to do is add the _us, _us_camo, _ff suffixes to the files names and the current US and FF icon/ruleset will swap them.

Or take for example, Terrain. Say you wanna be able to swap between DD's and Magua's trees. Write a ruleset for Terrain, then write rules for Trees, Bushes, Tree bases, etc. Using a file naming convention that works for you and then write in the options to swap them.

Sooner or later, Manx will get my new German Uniform Ruleset that will swap between all the latest Hi-Res uniforms with several options each for different helmets and trouser options. The actual bmps will be provided as well.

[CRSutton]

I am a mod whore and love to download all the pretty tanks being created out there. But I have to admit, for a computer nimrod such as me, it can get overwhelming. I sort of backed off EAW mods because all the wonderful downloads began to mess up my machine and I did not have the skill to sort out the mess. Also, in EAW there is a lot of debate over which flight characteristic mod is the best-with pro-germans players prefering one and pro allied preferring another. This is not a problems with CM as people are not messing with combat characteristics in their mods but is a good example of how too much variety can be a bad thing.

I say yes--simplfy and standardize should be the buzzword. However, it is important to keep it easy for us nimrods.

[lcm1947]

Maximus wrote;

That is the way it works. Take your example, the jeep. What sorts of different textures do you want? US, Camo, French? All you have to do is add the _us, _us_camo, _ff suffixes to the files names and the current US and FF icon/ruleset will swap them.

_____________________________________________

Maximus, First let me say that I realize that you and many mod makers, site people and just experienced and knowledgeable persons probably get tried of I for one always having to ask extra questions and or needing extra help when it comes to mods etc. but I do really appreicate the extra time and patience you all have shown in the past and hope it doesn't get too old or bothersome. I realize we should learn it on our own but actually that's what we are trying to do but some ( me mostly ) are just slow when it comes to this computer and figuring out things. So, with that said I would like to ask about the example above. Do you mean that if I simply add lets say _us to the jeep bmp numbers ( all of them I assume ) and then _camo to all of them that then I could switch between them? This is done to the bmp numbers in the BMP folder also I assume? Is this correct? Answer if you have time if not I understand you are probably busy right now with everything you have on your plate.