TexasToast Posted June 28, 2001 Share Posted June 28, 2001 Glad I could be of some assistance, especially considering my extremely marginal status as a "Star". I am going to come stumbling out of the gate, due to the dreaded "family vacation" next week. I will be incommunicado from this Sunday through the following Sunday while I drag the wife and kids through our nation's capital and surrounding areas. I'll be happy to start negotiating with anyone who is eager to get going, but I probably won't dive in earnestly until I get back. Good luck to all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Treeburst155 Posted June 28, 2001 Share Posted June 28, 2001 Gentlemen, We have a possible problem that needs to be worked out. I need your opinions. You probably all know that units can be purchased in the editor and partially deleted. For example, the 60mm mortars could be deleted from American companies. Two players have already expressed a desire to have this partial deleting of organic units forbidden. In the interest of realism I agree with them. Also, if too much of this partial deleting occurs it may be very difficult for me to reconstruct your purchases. I would need instructions on how you arrived at that particular combination of units. Is there any player out there who is AGAINST my outlawing this unit cannibalization? F Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Dorosh Posted June 28, 2001 Share Posted June 28, 2001 I am okay with this, Treeburst. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Treeburst155 Posted June 28, 2001 Share Posted June 28, 2001 I see your point Adam. I think you make a good case for NOT banning partial deletions. Players can negotiate this like everything else if they really don't like it. Let's see if anyone else has anything to say on this subject. Edit: What restrictions on SMG squads are you referring too? Are you talking about the "one force type" restriction? [ 06-28-2001: Message edited by: Treeburst155 ] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Capitalistdoginchina Posted June 28, 2001 Share Posted June 28, 2001 Treeburst, you are Da Boss, Da Manager, Da main man. Whatever you decide i shall follow......hang on a minute i need to wipe my nose Just my opinion - I don't mind either way, i have never edited any generic platoons so far in any battle of CM. But i think it would be quite interesting that so many experienced players could tailor their companies and equipment to suit their playing style, i would not object if an opponent decided to delete his AT teams or mortars from his force. On his head be it I would guess that a few may object, quite a few players try too hard to get a level playing field via rules and limitations. I enjoy the challenges of facing the unexpected and reacting to those situations as best i can with whatever i have on the battlefield. You will not get any complaints from me whatever tactics, units or styles of play i will face in the tourney Confucious says: He who is totally prepared for any situation, will likely win the wine CDIC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shandorf Posted June 28, 2001 Share Posted June 28, 2001 Partial deletions is NOT going to work. The reason for this is that I can buy infantry platoons piecemeal at a discount. Remember, when you buy large groups you get a discount on the units in the entire company. Therefore I could blatantly buy an infantry company or a Heavy weapons company that has artillery attached and then delete the infantry or other units and keep the artillery units a cut rate. This IMHO is complete cheating and it should be disallowed. Jeff Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Capitalistdoginchina Posted June 28, 2001 Share Posted June 28, 2001 Thats interesting information Jeff, i did not see that possibility...., maybe i am not devious enough to look for these things I have never counted the points when buying a company to see if there was a discount....if indeed what you say is correct then in order to prevent anyone taking advantage of it then i would agree not to edit the units. Cheers CDIC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Treeburst155 Posted June 28, 2001 Share Posted June 28, 2001 Jshandorf is correct. When you buy companies (and larger) you get discounted prices on the elements of the company. You could actually buy an entire American battalion and delete everything but the 81mm spotter and save 10 points on that spotter. This kind of stuff would be cheating in my book too. It would be nice if I could find some middle ground for this problem because I like Adam's argument. The question is, where do you draw the line? When does deleting forces become unscrupulous? It's a tough situation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jarmo Posted June 28, 2001 Share Posted June 28, 2001 Doesn't matter to me either way, but it should be either or. To make some kind of ruleset about exactly what can be deleted would be overly complicated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Treeburst155 Posted June 28, 2001 Share Posted June 28, 2001 How about this for a possible solution? Players may partially delete up to 100 points worth of units. This means a guy could buy a US Inf Company and delete roughly 5-7 support weapons if he wanted. If he bought another company he wouldn't be able to delete anything from it. This would prevent wholesale deletions for the purpose of point savings and still allow people some flexibility to come up with their own OOB. Can anybody come up with a flaw in this idea? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jarmo Posted June 28, 2001 Share Posted June 28, 2001 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Jarmo: To make some kind of ruleset about exactly what can be deleted would be overly complicated.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> I stand corrected. The 100 point idea would work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrSpkr Posted June 28, 2001 Share Posted June 28, 2001 IMHO it should be barred altogether -- that being said, I can live with the 100 pt restriction. Additionally, are there any restrictions on editing units to increase # and type of fausts (30/60/100), demo charges, ammo supply, etc? If we are going to allow any editing at all, these issues will have to be addressed. [ 06-28-2001: Message edited by: MrSpkr ] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WineCape Posted June 28, 2001 Author Share Posted June 28, 2001 NE comments forthcoming from the other combatants on Treeburst155's 100-point deletion idea? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Posted June 28, 2001 Share Posted June 28, 2001 I'm not involved in your Tourney but regards the 100pt deletion suggestion, what about additions to a company with experience levels? Say a person bought a Regular Coy then made a Plt Crack, would the 100pts apply to that also? Just a comment. Ron Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WineCape Posted June 28, 2001 Author Share Posted June 28, 2001 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Additionally, are there any restrictions on editing units to increase # fausts, demo charges, ammo supply, etc? If we are going to allow any editing at all, these issues will have to be addressed.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Another valid point. Two views have to be weighed here: a) Forbid any deletion/editing at all; Allow a 100-point deletion max. + possible editing of figting force attributes (quantity of fausts, ammo load-out etc.) Maybe the combatants on the Invitational could vote over this Treeburst? Your call. Regards, Charl Theron Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Berlichtingen Posted June 28, 2001 Share Posted June 28, 2001 Ok, how about this... if the deletions look questionable to Treeburst when he gets them, he can veto the deletions. The same goes for additions (Fausts, etc) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TexasToast Posted June 28, 2001 Share Posted June 28, 2001 A 100 point limit seems like a good compromise. I was one who brought this up originally, although I doubt it would be much of a problem with this group. Better to spell it out explicitly though. Editing unit attributes should be out for sure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Claymore Posted June 28, 2001 Share Posted June 28, 2001 I believe we should let Treeburst be the final arbiter on questionable purchases. If some obviously convoluted set of instructions come his way for purchases I am more than willing to let him decide it's gameyness or not. As for commander or support weapon boosting in the purchases...if Treeburst is doing the actual game setup this hack would be obviously nullified. Cheers Murray BTW It appears as though BeriBeri...I mean ...Berlichtingen (oops almost lost the sportsmanship prize there) and I will be dancing in the first round. Did you know that BeriBeri is not uncommon in chronic alcoholics? It's victims suffer from explosive anal venting, weakness, tremors and in the end heart failure. The similarities between this and my opponent need not be expounded upon. Who needs a lousy 50 bucks anyway? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Berlichtingen Posted June 28, 2001 Share Posted June 28, 2001 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Claymore: BTW It appears as though BeriBeri...I mean ...Berlichtingen (oops almost lost the sportsmanship prize there) and I will be dancing in the first round. Did you know that BeriBeri is not uncommon in chronic alcoholics? It's victims suffer from explosive anal venting, weakness, tremors and in the end heart failure. The similarities between this and my opponent need not be expounded upon. Who needs a lousy 50 bucks anyway? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> My dear Butterknife, Sportsmanship prize? Who gives a damn about sportsmanship? This is all about pounding your opponent to his knees and then putting the boot in. I look forward to spreading your entrails out for the buzzards to feast on. Die a lot now Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Capitalistdoginchina Posted June 28, 2001 Share Posted June 28, 2001 The 100 point allowance sounds good, it can help to round up the points and Treeburst can be the final Judge if someone is trying a fast one Claymore is correct, when you make the purchases and send them to Treeburst he will re-purchase both sides units, so even if someone edits the ammo loadouts it will be nullified when Treeburst makes the final purchase. So all the ammo loadouts WILL be different from the ones you first see on the map. CDIC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moon Posted June 28, 2001 Share Posted June 28, 2001 Ugh... a few more rules and I'll be completely lost, folks. Can we keep this all simple, please? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Treeburst155 Posted June 28, 2001 Share Posted June 28, 2001 Let me address a couple things mentioned above and then I'll set down the Official Force Purchase Rules. Changing experience levels is not a problem because the player PAYS for this. Editing ammo, leader characteristics, fausts, etc. is a waste of time because those will go back to random/default when I purchase your units. The Force Purchase Rules 1)There are none!!! The answer to the partial deletion problem is to work this out with your opponents. You can decide to allow it, disallow it, or partially allow it based on some max point limit such as the 100 points I suggested above. Allowing a fixed number of points for partial deletions is a good way to compromise for players who disagree on the issue. I will be on the lookout for flagrant abuse of partial deletions for the purpose of saving points. If I feel you have done this I will contact you to discuss your deletions. This will give you a chance to explain your reasons for them. If you can't convince me your intentions with the deletions are honorable you will have to repurchase your forces. The more big units you buy and the more you delete from them the more suspicious I will become. There is something else I want to address regarding force purchases. In the invite letter I state clearly that purchases are to be done using ONLY one force type (Heer, American Airborne, etc.). To keep things simple this is now negotiable too. The "no rules" rule I created above applies to EVERYTHING. If you want to limit purchases to one force type then negotiate this with your opponents. The only thing I ask is that players do not change the date when purchasing forces in order to obtain forces that are not available on the date I set. Doing this makes my re-purchasing job very tedious and can upset play balance too. The dates have been more or less carefully chosen. I have reasons for the date I chose. So, There are no rules or restrictions. Everything is to be negotiated by the players. Don't abuse partial deletions and don't change dates. Let me move on to another thing I am going to implement that may enhance the fun for some of you. If you would prefer NOT to know the map and parameters before you purchase forces this is no problem for me. All you have to do is get your opponent to agree to a blind game, then contact me and I will inform you both of the date of your battle. You then choose your forces in the editor (set for the date I specify) and send the generic .cmb to me. I will transfer the forces and you're off and running on a blind game. Treeburst155 out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Treeburst155 Posted June 30, 2001 Share Posted June 30, 2001 So far I have 6 games fully underway and 5 more waiting for force purchases from one or both players. All but 179 games have been arranged. Geez, this thing will be over in no time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Dorosh Posted June 30, 2001 Share Posted June 30, 2001 And Capitalist Dog is already handing me my ass. If I grin and bear it, do I get the sportsmanship award??????? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Berlichtingen Posted June 30, 2001 Share Posted June 30, 2001 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Michael Dorosh: And Capitalist Dog is already handing me my ass. If I grin and bear it, do I get the sportsmanship award???????<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> No, but we might be persuaded to allow you to DIE! file's in your inbox Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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