Murph Posted September 17, 2001 Share Posted September 17, 2001 Does any one know how names for military operations are assigned? Who does this? Are the names closely linked with the action (as in Desert Shield, for ex.) or are they seemingly random (like Cobra, for ex.). I first wondered this when I read about the name given to the operatation undeway now in the US (it's a silly name, I'm sorry. So silly I've already forgotten it...proud eagle? something like that). Anyway, then my curiosity went on to other well known "operations" in history. So my question to the military buffs out there: Can you tell me the anecdote/reason/meaning behind the following? Overlord Barbarossa Market Garden And any others you know of. I'm sure some will be quite interesting because they seem so appropriate, and others for exactly the opposite reason. Thanks, Murph Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dalem Posted September 17, 2001 Share Posted September 17, 2001 I know the answers to some of your detailed questions but not all, so I'll let a real grog answer that for you, but in general you pick names that mean nothing, but they can sometimes have general relevance. Obviously naming an operation "Kill Bob With Bazooka Monday At 0300 Hours" has security ramifications. Operation "No More Bob" is less revealing and somewhat relevant - you're not telegraphing any real secrets if everyone already knows you don't like Bob. If you're trying to make Bob a little nervous in the meantime, so much the better. If you don't want to telegraph anything however, then it's Operation "Cement Hairpie", and no one could possibly warn Bob. No Bobs were harmed in the creation of this post. -dale Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maximus Posted September 17, 2001 Share Posted September 17, 2001 I always thought they consulted MrPeng before naming an Operation. Well at least that's what I always thought. I could be wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrPeng Posted September 17, 2001 Share Posted September 17, 2001 The problem is that no-one ever consults with me about anything before it happens. If they did the world would be a much better place. For example, 1970's "fashion" never would have happened if they has just asked my opinion of the leisure suit before it went into production. I am available for consultations on just about any topic or need for a low-low hourly rate, billed in 6 minute units, and with guaranteed results. The results may not be what you want, but I guarantee there will be results of some sort. Peng edited because its all maximus's fault [ 09-17-2001: Message edited by: MrPeng ] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rifle1860 Posted September 17, 2001 Share Posted September 17, 2001 Not sure how things worked everywhere else but up in the Great White North things used to work like this .. (in the good-old-days, you know. The Cold War when you knew which way to point your rifle) Intelligence-type people (G2) (oops)would randomly generate lists of single words. The lists were held at each level above brigade. As a new operation or contingency plan was thought of, the next name on the list would be assigned to the plan. This ensured no connection between the type of operation and the name. The names were further vetted to ensure that "chance" had not struck and that the name had no connection to the operation. The trend recently has been to assign names to operations as part of the public affairs effort to ensure that the civilian population would better support the op. [ 09-19-2001: Message edited by: Rifle1860 ] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-Havermeyer- Posted September 17, 2001 Share Posted September 17, 2001 Well... another paradigm is shattered. Everytime I imagined MrPeng it was in a smoky, purple, leisure suit. Of course he was always "coming on" to me in these fleeting images. Shuffling about and muttering something about Aquarius. Ick. I just imagined it again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pvt. Ryan Posted September 17, 2001 Share Posted September 17, 2001 I thought Desert Shield and Desert Storm were good names. I believe Hitler chose Wacht Am Rhine (sp?), which AFAIK means Watch on the Rhine, to imply that he was conducting a defensive operation in case the allies caught wind of the name. Market Garden was chosen because the airborne troops were going into a meat grinder such as you would find in a butcher shop at the market, while XXX Corps was strolling through a garden smelling the flowers and drinking tea. I would cite a source for this, except I made it up. [ 09-17-2001: Message edited by: Pvt. Ryan ] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
L.Tankersley Posted September 17, 2001 Share Posted September 17, 2001 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Murph: So my question to the military buffs out there: Can you tell me the anecdote/reason/meaning behind the following? Overlord Barbarossa Market Garden<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> By coincidence, just last night I was reading one of Keegan's books and it gave the background of "Barbarossa." Apparently that was the name of some mythical (?) king that was imprisoned in a cave of ice, or something, and arose to help the German people out of some scrape or other. That was the general idea, anyway, as best I can remember. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thermopylae Posted September 18, 2001 Share Posted September 18, 2001 Barbarossa was a a legendary german figure who built a gemrna empire and then went to attack (and take a slice out of) poland. he apparently had a great red beard too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew H. Posted September 18, 2001 Share Posted September 18, 2001 Barbarossa was a real person - Frederick I, Holy Roman Emperor until 1190. He was pretty successful. He went on crusade with Richard the Lionhearted and died on the crusade. The mythical part is the bit about him being in a cave, where he will wake up of the German people face disaster. Or Barbarossa has a very apocalyptic view of disaster. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andreas Posted September 18, 2001 Share Posted September 18, 2001 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Andrew Hedges: Barbarossa was a real person - Frederick I, Holy Roman Emperor until 1190. He was pretty successful. He went on crusade with Richard the Lionhearted and died on the crusade. The mythical part is the bit about him being in a cave, where he will wake up of the German people face disaster. Or Barbarossa has a very apocalyptic view of disaster.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Died of a heart-attack while swimming in a river close to what is Ankara today. Not particularly heroic. Our answer to Richard Lionheart, as Andrew correctly pointed out. Sits in his cave under the Kyffhäuser (a mountain in the Harz range in central Germany) until such a time as the German people need him. His failure to appear in May 1945 shows he was a democrat at heart. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KMHPaladin Posted September 18, 2001 Share Posted September 18, 2001 One of the most amusing names for an important operation was the first major Marine movement in Vietnam, Operation Starlite. Apparently the operation was originally to be called "Satellite," but the typists who were to be writing up the plan of action were typing at night, during a rocket attack, and they misread "Satellite" as "Starlite." The brass decided not to change it... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stuka Posted September 18, 2001 Share Posted September 18, 2001 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by -Havermeyer-: Everytime I imagined MrPeng it was in a smoky, purple, leisure suit. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> And accompanying him was Judge Judy in a little latex number wearing a flying helmet with a little propellor on top. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Dorosh Posted September 18, 2001 Share Posted September 18, 2001 Some of the Allied operations in Normandy were named after British racetracks - Goodwood, Epsom - IIRC. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Capt. Vance Astrovich Posted September 18, 2001 Share Posted September 18, 2001 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Pvt. Ryan: I thought Desert Shield and Desert Storm were good names.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> I remember when that attack happened and Desert Shield became Desert SWORD. Now that was appropriate naming if ever I heard it! Of course within a couple of minutes I realized I didn't hear Desert Storm properly, that what I thought was Desert Sword was really Desert Storm. It really should have been called Desert Sword though. Perfect to go from the defense of Desert Shield to the offence of Desert Sword. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Affentitten Posted September 18, 2001 Share Posted September 18, 2001 In WW2 the sheer number of operations meant that random cose words were the go for the Allies. They were usually vetted for coincidence or implied meaning, but there were sometimes slip-ups. It's hard to imagine, for example, how anybody thought that Operation "Neptune" wasn't a give away for the British naval operation element of D-Day. The Normandy campaign saw some associated operations, as somebody has already mentioned, Goodwood, Epsom and so on are events in the British flat-racing season. You could sometimes get a "Comet 2" if an original plan was amended slightly. Hitler was little more melodramatic and often named big operations after heroic bits of German mythology. The Americans today are a little bit that way inclined too. I think they have a public name for the campaign that always sounds heroic and patriotic, but then the individual elements of the campaign are named secretly. As an aside, I had a mate who got the Australian copyright to "desert storm". When "Desert Sheild" was implemented, my mate went and registered about 2 dozen names with the appropriate intellectual property office. He did things like "Desert Fury", "Desert Thunder" and so on. Bingo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew H. Posted September 18, 2001 Share Posted September 18, 2001 There's a difference, of course, between names for things that are supposed to be secret, and names for things that just need names. When the US started desert shield, it was not a secret that we were sending a bunch of soldiers there to defend saudi arabia. But I do wonder if the operation had a different name before it was announced ("beige microphone") or something similarly obscure. Germany had obscure names for its attacks at first: the invasion of Poland was Fall weiss (case white); France was Fall gelb (case yellow). AFAIK, yellow doesn't have the same connotation in German as it does in English. I suppose Fall rot (red) for the invasion of the USSR would have been too obvious, although Barbarossa does have that red element to it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vskalex Posted September 18, 2001 Share Posted September 18, 2001 Well, as someone pointed out, Market Garden was really two operations. One was the airborne drop, Garden I seem to remember, and the other the armoured drive, would be Market then. Look in Stephen Ambrose "Beyond Overlord" for correct details. :cool: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Desdichado Posted September 18, 2001 Share Posted September 18, 2001 Desert Sword, subsequently redesignated Desert Sabre, was the ground campaign. You didn't hear it wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mensch Posted September 18, 2001 Share Posted September 18, 2001 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by dalem: funny stuff said. -dale<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Dalem that was the funniest post you made for months.. LOL thanks for bringing a smile to me face. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peter tilbury Posted September 18, 2001 Share Posted September 18, 2001 There is a story, told in the „World at War“ series I believe of three of the Normandy beachheads being the answers to clues in same Times crossword shortly before the off, and the compiler being brought in for questioning, in case it were a coded message for German intelligence. It turned out to be a complete coincidence! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M Hofbauer Posted September 18, 2001 Share Posted September 18, 2001 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Germanboy: His failure to appear in May 1945 shows he was a democrat at heart.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> splendid ! sehr trocken! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IPA Posted September 18, 2001 Share Posted September 18, 2001 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by vskalex: Well, as someone pointed out, Market Garden was really two operations. One was the airborne drop, Garden I seem to remember, and the other the armoured drive, would be Market then. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> It was the other way round. Peter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-Havermeyer- Posted September 18, 2001 Share Posted September 18, 2001 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by vskalex: Well, as someone pointed out, Market Garden was really two operations. One was the airborne drop, Garden I seem to remember, and the other the armoured drive, would be Market then. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by IPA: It was the other way round. Peter<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> It was the other way round. [ 09-18-2001: Message edited by: -Havermeyer- ] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CMplayer Posted September 18, 2001 Share Posted September 18, 2001 If they had deployed nukes the name would have been Desert Heat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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