I Have Questions About Arty That Need To Be Answered

[Col Deadmarsh]

1) What good is the 75mm team?

I mean, spend 10 more clams and you can get the 81mm which has 120 more rounds and more punch to it. This seems like a no-brainer to me. What possible reason can there be to take the 75 unless you're short a few bucks?

2) Why do some off-board arty teams say "mortar" and others are just regular arty?

For instance, the 4.2 inch is called a "mortar" and yet the 4.5 inch is not. What gives?

3) Is VT arty only good against infantry outside of houses? How many of you have had success with these in your games?

I assume that since VT is set for tree burst or air burst, it's useless against infantry inside buildings. Is this correct?

Has anybody here been glad they threw down some more cash for the VT in a scenario? Does it really do more damage to enemy infantry in woods or pines?

4) What are these rockets on the German side?

Are they launched from planes? How accurate are they compared to the off-board arty guns or mortars?

[ 08-10-2001: Message edited by: Colonel_Deadmarsh ]

[Stalin's Organ]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Colonel_Deadmarsh:

1) What good is the 75mm team?

I mean, spend 10 more clams and you can get the 81mm which has 120 more rounds and more punch to it. This seems like a no-brainer to me. What possible reason can there be to take the 75 unless you're short a few bucks??<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

That's pretty much it, although the 75's do have a higher blast factor per shell than the 81 does.

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>

2) Why do some off-board arty teams say "mortar" and others are just regular arty?

For instance, the 4.2 inch is called a "mortar" and yet the 4.5 inch is not. What gives??<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

The 4.5" is not a mortar - it's a gun - and quite a big one although it didn't have much HE in it's shell.

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>

3) Is VT arty only good against infantry outside of houses? How many of you have had success with these in your games?

I assume that since VT is set for tree burst or air burst, it's useless against infantry inside buildings. Is this correct??<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Correct - it doesn't seem to have much effect - but boy oh boy you shuold see what it does to infantry in the open!

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>

Has anybody here been glad they threw down some more cash for the VT in a scenario? Does it really do more damage to enemy infantry in woods or pines?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I find it's really of limited use in most situations - infantry is generally hiding in woods/houses anyway, and the VT won't knock down buildings (or if it does it's not that good at it!).

However I've been on the receiving end in my "early" days, so I can vouch for its effectiveness in ideal circumstances!!

[Stixx]

1 The 75mm has a blast of 39 where the 81mm only has a blast of 18.

2 As mentioned above they named Mortar or Artillery because they ARE mortars or artillery. Just because you buy it from the "Artillery" section doesn't mean it has to be field guns. It can be mortars (as in the us 81's) or it could be Naval (as in the 14").

3 If you are wondering how effective VT is do a test. Put an infantry platoon or 2 in a patch of woods and target it with 155 VT rounds. They are devastional, in the open they will rout even crack troops.

[Andreas]

4. The German Rickets are called 'Nebelwerfer'. They were fired from multi-barreled projectors ranging from 150mm to 320mm. They were organised in special brigades attached at Corps level. Fondly known by the Pommies as 'Moaning Minnies', because of the howling sound they made. I believe they are slightly undermodelled in CMBO, especially the 150mm variety, because that one would have caused an airburst 60cm above ground, due to it's lay-out. Also, the simultaneous impact of a large number of these projectiles in a small space led to ruptures of internal organs of the unfortunates caught out.

I have read an account of a Red Army regiment caught in a barrage while forming up to support an attack. The effect was so devastating that they could not move up, and the first wave they were supposed to support faltered under a German counter-attack.

Heavier projectors were designed for work on fortifications, and did not have the airburst designed in.

Some info http://www.2ndarmoredhellonwheels.com/weapons_of_war.html shows a 150mm projector

and http://www.achtungpanzer.com/rockets.html compares the Nebelwerfer to the Katyusha.

1) http://www.4point2.org tells you all about the 4.2" mortar

Hope that helps.

[Dschugaschwili]

As to the accuracy of the German Nebelwerfer rockets, it's horrible. It doesn't seem to matter if the spotter has LOS to the target point or if there's a TRP there, most shells land within 300m around the target. So buying it in small battles (read: small map) will just as likely kill your own troops as the enemy's.

Dschugaschwili

[olandt]

Anyone try to first level the houses and then VT the area. But that would probably be overkill...

[mensch]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Dschugaschwili:

So buying it in small battles (read: small map) will just as likely kill your own troops as the enemy's.

Dschugaschwili<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

ya.. true but it's FUN!!!

[Louie the Toad]

I recently used VT on an attacking german platoon maybe two, plus support. Two turns of shelling and they ceased to be a factor in the game. I also used it on a tracked assault gun of some kind. (didnt know VT was supposed to be less effective in that role). It was the only weapon I had available for long range at the time. It must have had some effect on the crew of the AFV because they buttoned up and have stayed that way for at least 6 turns.

Now I am under attack by two platoons of infantry or possibly a company on my right. They are coming over open and treed ground.

At the same time in my center a 234 AC with the short 75mm and a Hetzer are moving up. I still only have the VT available for a few more turns before I can get my armor to help out vs the enemy armor. My decision is to keep firing at the infantry with VT rather than spending 2 minutes to acquire the enemy armor and try for an immobilizing hit as I did against the assault gun. Any thoughts?

Holding the line .. Toad

[Lars]

Stay with the infantry, it'll be more effective. VT works great on open top AFV's as you noticed.

[Panzer_Meyer]

Being on the recieving end of VT I can tell you it's terror to the troops!

I had 5 platoons in all (Motorized) Attacking a village. I was still outside the village ready to rush a platoon holding a patch of woods. So I rushed, no problem took the woods with suffering minimal cualties and the defender was wiped out. BUT, next turn VT barage came in, 4 of my platoons were wiped out in a single turn. It was devasting, lost the match, only tacticaly though.

VTs are devasting agaisnt inf. in all terain except buildings!

[Louie the Toad]

Hey Lars,

Good to hear from another Minnesnowtan.

Do you play Franko's Rules at all?

Cordial Toad

[Wreck]

You might find this

arty discussion

on the tips and tricks board interesting.

[MrSpkr]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Colonel_Deadmarsh:

1) What good is the 75mm team?

I mean, spend 10 more clams and you can get the 81mm which has 120 more rounds and more punch to it. This seems like a no-brainer to me. What possible reason can there be to take the 75 unless you're short a few bucks?

2) Why do some off-board arty teams say "mortar" and others are just regular arty?

For instance, the 4.2 inch is called a "mortar" and yet the 4.5 inch is not. What gives?

3) Is VT arty only good against infantry outside of houses? How many of you have had success with these in your games?

I assume that since VT is set for tree burst or air burst, it's useless against infantry inside buildings. Is this correct?

Has anybody here been glad they threw down some more cash for the VT in a scenario? Does it really do more damage to enemy infantry in woods or pines?

4) What are these rockets on the German side?

Are they launched from planes? How accurate are they compared to the off-board arty guns or mortars?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Are you serious? You have been registered here for over a year and you are asking these types of questions?

Do you actually OWN the game, or do you just hang out on the message boards and post random thoughts?

For the record, the answers are:

(1) 75mm has around twice the blast factor of an 81mm mortar, which has about twice the ammunition and response speed of the 75mm.

(2) Let's think about this one a bit - why do we call some vehicles 'jeeps' and some vehicles 'trucks'? Maybe its because some ARE mortars and some ARE artillery pieces!

(3)VT-artillery doesn't do well against houses (though it can break green or conscripts, even in houses); does very well against any units other than closed-top tanks in most other terrain.

(4) Are you serious here? German rockets coming from planes (that you can't see or hear in the game)? Do you actually own the game? Have you ever actually tried a quick battle with these units? Do you even know what a quick battle is?

I ask because these have to be the most inane questions I have ever seen from someone who has been around as long as you have.

[edited because spelling might be vaguely important]

[ 08-09-2001: Message edited by: MrSpkr ]

[Col Deadmarsh]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by MrSpkr:

Are you serious? You have been registered here for over a year and you are asking these types of questions?

Do you actually OWN the game, or do you just hang out on the message boards and post random thoughts?

For the record, the answers are:

(1) 75mm has around twice the blast factor of an 81mm mortar, which has about twice the ammunition and response speed of the 75mm.

(2) Let's think about this one a bit - why do we call some vehicles 'jeeps' and some vehicles 'trucks'? Maybe its because some ARE mortars and some ARE artillery pieces!

(3)VT-artillery doesn't do well against houses (though it can break green or conscripts, even in houses); does very well against any units other than closed-top tanks in most other terrain.

(4) Are you serious here? German rockets coming from planes (that you can't see or hear in the game)? Do you actually own the game? Have you ever actually tried a quick battle with these units? Do you even know what a quick battle is?

I ask because these have to be the most inane questions I have ever seen from someone who has been around as long as you have.

[edited because spelling might be vaguely important]

[ 08-09-2001: Message edited by: MrSpkr ]<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Excuse me a*shole! Unlike you, I work and have a social life so I'm not glued to the boards like yourself day in, day out. Just cause I've been around a year doesn't mean I know everything. For one, I only play PBEM which has been a total of about 9-10 games. I haven't had the chance to use the rockets yet, and I don't remember it saying anywhere in the manual about the difference between mortars and artillery guns. I guess I missed that post on the boards...but then remember, unlike yourself, I don't devote my entire life to learning everything about a damn computer game.

:mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad:

[Pak40]

Calm down girls. MrSPKR, Yes they were basic questions that most on this board would know but he has a right to ask. He probably doesn't have the background and military books that a lot of us have.

Colonel, you have a right to get PO'd with response like that but you might want to tone down your response or you get booted from these boards. You wont be the first.

For the record, there are 4 basic types of Artillery these modern days:

Guns: long barreled, and higher muzzle velocity give these guns longer range but low trajectory.

Howitzers: similar to guns but the barrels are shorter. This gives the shell more of an arc (lower velocity) which helps hit the backslope of hills etc.

Mortars: A tube that is pointed in the air, giving the shell a very high arc. This allows the mortars to be used very close to its target, often within site. Also, the shell is fired automatically as soon as it is dropped in the tube which gives it a high rate of fire. The shells are usually smaller than their Howitzer counterparts so the can be manhandled easier, this accounts for the lesser blast values than the Howitzers. A big advantage of the mortar is the close proximity to the front and easy aiming of the tubes, this allows less time between the FO requests and the actuall barrage.

Rockets: Big multiple barreled tubes that fire rockets over a long distance. These are very inaccurate but they can be very devistating and a bunch can be fired quickly.

[ 08-09-2001: Message edited by: Pak40 ]

[MrSpkr]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Colonel_Deadmarsh:

Unlike you, I work and have a social life so I'm not glued to the boards like yourself day in, day out. Just cause I've been around a year doesn't mean I know everything. For one, I only play PBEM which has been a total of about 9-10 games. I haven't had the chance to use the rockets yet, and I don't remember it saying anywhere in the manual about the difference between mortars and artillery guns. I guess I missed that post on the boards...but then remember, unlike yourself, I don't devote my entire life to learning everything about a damn computer game.

:mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad:<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Temper, temper. I would just think someone who has been registered for a year would maybe have TRIED playing the game a little to discover some of the answers (like maybe creating a scenario to examine the effects of VT artilery on troops in buildings or maybe purchasing a few rocket FO's to see if I can hear the airplanes and see how the rockets land).

As for your social life and work, I'll see your work and social life, raise you fifteen hours of overtime a week, four kids, responsibilities in church, and until very recently, evening graduate classes. Just because you're busy doesn't mean you have to be helpless.

Maybe you should try a decaffeinated brand - I hear they are just as tasty as the real thing.

[MrSpkr]

Oops == wacky double post thing going here.

[ 08-09-2001: Message edited by: MrSpkr ]

[Simon Fox]

Really Spkr, just because you think that (and really who didn't) doesn't mean you have to proclaim it bluntly for all to read.

After all Deadmarsh isn't one to take advantage of the goodwill and helpfullness of the board members is he?

As for you Deadmarsh, what the hell is it with these asterix you people keep using, is this some sort of guessing game? Why can't you use a decent anglo-saxon insult like arsehole, really asshole just sounds so wussy.

[nedlam]

Rockets are kind of a weapon of terror IMHO. Come to think of it, artillery in general are terror weapons. If I'm not mistaken, they are cheaper to buy and you get bigger caliber rounds, but you give up accuracy.

Oh, MrSpkr, the only dumb question is the one you don't ask. Can't we all just get along?

[Dweezil44]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by nedlam:

Oh, MrSpkr, the only dumb question is the one you don't ask. Can't we all just get along? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Be quiet, Rodney! Besides -- Mr Mouth was just pointing out some major-league mental density/laziness when he saw it.

Anyway, you have to admit, sitting back and watching this is a bit entertaining.

[ 08-09-2001: Message edited by: Dweezil44 ]

[dalem]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by nedlam:

Rockets are kind of a weapon of terror IMHO. Come to think of it, artillery in general are terror weapons. If I'm not mistaken, they are cheaper to buy and you get bigger caliber rounds, but you give up accuracy.

Oh, MrSpkr, the only dumb question is the one you don't ask. Can't we all just get along? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

C'mon, a cinder block held over my head by someone who wants my wallet is a "terror weapon". A weapon is a weapon, and being terrified of any one of them is quite a rational decision. Let's not assist in the complication of the language to no purpose, hmm? This isn't the six o'clock news.

-dale

[Col Deadmarsh]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by MrSpkr:

Temper, temper. I would just think someone who has been registered for a year would maybe have TRIED playing the game a little to discover some of the answers (like maybe creating a scenario to examine the effects of VT artilery on troops in buildings or maybe purchasing a few rocket FO's to see if I can hear the airplanes and see how the rockets land).

As for your social life and work, I'll see your work and social life, raise you fifteen hours of overtime a week, four kids, responsibilities in church, and until very recently, evening graduate classes. Just because you're busy doesn't mean you have to be helpless.

Maybe you should try a decaffeinated brand - I hear they are just as tasty as the real thing.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

You must have a real tough job if you're in here posting your smart-ass posts every afternoon.

As for me, I don't have to test everything in the game before I pose a question. Got that? Now go away and bother someone else.

[Lars]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Louie the Toad:

Hey Lars,

Good to hear from another Minnesnowtan.

Do you play Franko's Rules at all?

Cordial Toad<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Sorry Louie, I just play the game as it is. If I wanted to read rulebooks I would go back to Squad Leader.

For the rest of you gentlemen, in my experience the only stupid questions are the ones I can't answer.

[MrSpkr]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Colonel_Deadmarsh:

You must have a real tough job if you're in here posting your smart-ass posts every afternoon.

As for me, I don't have to test everything in the game before I pose a question. Got that? Now go away and bother someone else.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Oh grow up and buy a sense of humor. If you are going to post brain-dead questions like these or several others you have flooded the board with lately without bothering to do a search or testing it yourself, be ready to take a little flak.

[ 08-09-2001: Message edited by: MrSpkr ]

[StellarRat]

MrSpkr I fail to understand your attitude here. You were the one who was dumb enough to answer Dead's questions, taking time out of your supposedly busy schedule. What is the point of the Internet if you can't use it to find quick answers? If I wanted to know the atomic weight of potassium I wouldn't launch into a chemistry project I'd look it up in a book or on the 'net. The intelligent person saves as much time as possible finding answers to known problems. Lighten up dude.