Malmvig Posted August 10, 2000 Share Posted August 10, 2000 One of my previous threads 'Where did you the first time heard about CM?' - kford pointed out that CM was originally meant to be the PC version of ASL. This statement is supported by GameSpot's review of the same. I did not know however - until now. Once - I had the challange of becomming a member of the ASL society but failed to get into the stuff. I know however a lot of ASL players. The question is simple - can I present CM to those players, Would they adapt to this game, would they be thrilled, or would they be dissapointed? "I know all of those polls is annoying but if the purpose is to add some more people to the CM society? would it not be alright?" Henrik Malmvig Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phoenix Posted August 11, 2000 Share Posted August 11, 2000 Never played ASL. The rule book scared the crap out of me as did the price, and since I was in high school I couldn't afford it. BUT, I did play the original SL, Cross of Iron etc. CM is the game we could only dream of back in 1980. My friend and I wondered how we could write a program (in Basic mind you) to take care of all the charts and number cruchning. Hah! Anyway, I would think any ASL/SL player would LOVE to at least try the game. What can it hurt? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mace Posted August 11, 2000 Share Posted August 11, 2000 I think CM is an excellent and enjoyable piece of software in the AS/ASL genre! Besides CM provides much more in one package, than ASL provides in their many modules (Eastern Front ones excluded), and is a cheaper option as well. I thus wouldn't hesitate to recommend it to fellow AS/ASL players. Mace Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Purple4Ever Posted August 11, 2000 Share Posted August 11, 2000 I am (was?) an SL/ASL player and have recommended it to my opponents....err friends Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Jenkins Posted August 11, 2000 Share Posted August 11, 2000 I am obsessed with WWII, am majoring in WWII History, but never got through the ASL rulebook. Thanks for CM! ------------------ "Rinky dinky stinky thinky" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dalem Posted August 11, 2000 Share Posted August 11, 2000 Henrik- I've been a big SL/ASL fan since the Olden Days. I cannot think of a single thing about CM that would not appeal to an SL/ASL fan. As many here would quickly point out, CM is not Squad Leader, nor is it trying to be, but they both address the same genre in the same scope at the same scale, so there is a natural 'crossover' attraction, I should think. The biggest problem you might run into, in my humble opinion, is a possibility of ..."ASLiority". What I mean is that many ASLers feel that knowledge of the rules is knowledge of the period. The Avalon Hill guys that researched (and still do) for ASL did a fantastic job, but they didn't get everything 100% correct, and also had to abstract many things that BTS did not. So, if all someone knows are the ASL rules, then they might point at a CM game result and yell "Blasphemer! Everyone knows that X cannot do Y without Z being present! That is clearly given to us in Chapter D, rule 11.3.2.6!" If that happens then just give them a beer and gently remind them that the BTS guys (and oodles of others) have done their research as well, and continue to accept reasonable input from this very forum (which is pretty darned cool, I think). -dale (always happy to babble on about ASL) (I myself would still truly love to see a 100% transfer of ASL to a computer game, hexes and all, of course.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TankDawg Posted August 11, 2000 Share Posted August 11, 2000 I am and have been an avid ASLer for 15 years. Play it all the time. Nothing beats face to face. And... I love CM!! Have recommended it to all my fellow ASLers in the Seattle area and enjoy PBEM with a couple of them. I see many ASL carry-overs that make CM the great game that it is. Jeff Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phoenix Posted August 11, 2000 Share Posted August 11, 2000 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by dalem: Henrik- (I myself would still truly love to see a 100% transfer of ASL to a computer game, hexes and all, of course.)<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Heh. Want a set of dice too? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Molyneaux2 Posted August 11, 2000 Share Posted August 11, 2000 VASL, search for it on the net, it is a complete transfer of ASL to the puter, just no puter opponents, you have to play a real live person Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kford Posted August 11, 2000 Share Posted August 11, 2000 Since I'm mentioned in the first post of this thread, I'll weigh in. I totally agree with Henrik. Most SL/ASL people will love CM. There are a few out there who want to have complete control and still will prefer ASL/SL. After all, CM is abstracted and they loose some of their ability to predict the outcome of every move. I prefer the CM style, it make it feel more like real combat instead of a bunch of tables. Thanks, Kevin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Michael emrys Posted August 11, 2000 Share Posted August 11, 2000 I bought all the original Squad Leader series of games in the '70s and '80s and loved them. Eagerly pored over all the SL articles in The General. Even derived the probability formulas for the outcomes of various events. When ASL came along though, I couldn't see shelling out hundreds of bucks just to start over. I did continue to read the articles in The General with pleasure and I always glanced at the new scenarios they put into every issue. To answer your question, Henrik, (bet you thought I'd never get around to it, didn't you? ) sure, tell your ASL pals about it. I'd guess most of them will take right to it. Some of them will regard it as a dream come true. Some, especially any who don't care for computer games in the first place, may not go for it. That's life. But I daresay most will bless you for leading them to the Promised Land (those that don't curse you for obliterating their spare time, ruining their marriages, etc. ). Michael Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisl Posted August 11, 2000 Share Posted August 11, 2000 I have pretty much the same background and Michael. CM is the only game on my hard drive. I was looking for something to do during the evenings at a long conference that was in January 2000 and recalled that I had recently complained to a friend that there weren't any SL like computer games out there, despite computers being ideal for dealing with all the rules. I started searching, and was about to order CC, when I found CM (I don't remember exacly where, but I searched under "mac games" at yahoo to find it) and downloaded the demo. I decided that even if they got sick of it and just released the beta demo with some more scenarios it was well worth the $$, so I ordered it. Any serious SL player will start drooling when they see CM. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wayne Posted August 11, 2000 Share Posted August 11, 2000 I found the Gold demo of CM while serching the net for a computor "version" of ASL and fell in love with it. I would recommend CM to anybody that loved wargames but especially to ASLers. ------------------ Blessed be the Lord my strength who teaches my hands to war and my fingers to fight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flipper Posted August 11, 2000 Share Posted August 11, 2000 Hell yeah... the thing about asl was it's evolution I see the same thing here the avalon hill magazine "the general" alway's put in a custom scenario with each issue the one i'm looking for is the one outside of moscow in the winter of 41' not real big but interesting the asl series was really cool I still have all the game's but it's such a vast enterprise having every little piece to that big puzzle is asking a lot...cm is the next step in the evolution of asl Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noba Posted August 11, 2000 Share Posted August 11, 2000 I think Flipper has hit the nail squarely on the head. CM is an evolution of ASL. Skip CM 2 ..lets go straight to the desert ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hawk Posted August 11, 2000 Share Posted August 11, 2000 Hmmm... I wonder if I'll bend down real close to the board to check LOS the next time I play SL...? Hawk ------------------ Our's is not to reason why, our's is but to do and die! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pascal DI FOLCO Posted August 11, 2000 Share Posted August 11, 2000 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Michael emrys: I bought all the original Squad Leader series of games in the '70s and '80s and loved them. Eagerly pored over all the SL articles in The General. Even derived the probability formulas for the outcomes of various events. When ASL came along though, I couldn't see shelling out hundreds of bucks just to start over. I did continue to read the articles in The General with pleasure and I always glanced at the new scenarios they put into every issue. Michael<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Just like me ! Played the full SL series but did not have money for ASL... And indeed CM is above the dreams I never had when I played SL, I think any SL/ASL gamer will feel the same Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cward Posted August 11, 2000 Share Posted August 11, 2000 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Malmvig: I know however a lot of ASL players. The question is simple - can I present CM to those players, Would they adapt to this game, would they be thrilled, or would they be dissapointed<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Well The ASL rulebooks gave me a headache, I find the 1040 forms easier to comprehend.. ---bogus ASL manual clip---- First when moving (covered in 1.2.3.1 paragraph 4) a unit (covered in 2.3.1.3 paragraph 1) down a road (covered in 3.2.1.3) observation (covered in 2.1.3.2) will be reduced (covered in 3.2.1.2) by four hexes.. AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAGH!!! I did love those wonderfull map boards though.. and let us not forget that ASL was first released on the apple II sometime around 1983. I believe by Avalon Hill or SSI. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IntelWeenie Posted August 11, 2000 Share Posted August 11, 2000 Long time SL/ASLer and I LOVE CM! Have to agree with everyone else here. Let everyone know about CM! The only nit I can see a hardcore ASLer picking is that ASL covers a LOT more details and is easier to modify to one's liking (house rules). BTW, when I say 'details', I am referring to things that aren't commonly used but are cvered by the rules: sewers, climbing, church towers, entrenching, falling rubble, different kinds of assault boats, etc., etc., etc.. ------------------ "Belly to belly and everything's better" - Russian proverb Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
L.Tankersley Posted August 11, 2000 Share Posted August 11, 2000 Heh, I was at DonCon (World Boardgaming Championships, formerly AvalonCon) last weekend and talked up CM a bit at the ASL tournament. "Blasphemer! Everyone knows that X cannot do Y without Z being present! That is clearly given to us in Chapter D, rule 11.3.2.6!" I think that rule (D11) deals with motorcycles and bicycles. (Had occasion to look that up just the other day.) VASL, search for it on the net, it is a complete transfer of ASL to the puter Well, sort of. VASL provides electronic versions of the mapboards, overlays and countermix along with a chat and dice-rolling utility. But it DOESN'T have any knowledge of the rules. Hmmm... I wonder if I'll bend down real close to the board to check LOS the next time I play SL...? I did this before CM. One other advantage of CM is that it's possible to play a game in an hour or two. ------------------ Leland J. Tankersley Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Michael emrys Posted August 11, 2000 Share Posted August 11, 2000 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Hawk: Hmmm... I wonder if I'll bend down real close to the board to check LOS the next time I play SL...? Hawk <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> For some reason that reminds me of something I almost did back in 1981. A friend and I had been playing a lot of SL, COI, and COD and got the idea of modeling the SL mapboards in 3D on fiberboard backing in 1/285 scale for use with miniatures. I actually began purchasing a set of miniature armor, but that was as far as the project got. But I could easily imagine bending down and squinting to check LOS. Michael [This message has been edited by Michael emrys (edited 08-11-2000).] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cardinal Fang Posted August 11, 2000 Share Posted August 11, 2000 Howdy, I played a bit of SL in my younger days. My main claim to fame in that game (uh-oh, I'm starting to rhyme. That can't be good.) was the time I broke almost every weapon on a Russian tank trying to kill a SS squad that had a panzerschreck. I say almost because the one weapon that was left was the rear-facing mg. My luck with dice is consistant. Unfortunately it's consistantly bad. I was the designated "rules-reader" in my group. I would read the rules and then explain them to everyone else (you see at the time they had lives while I...well it's painful to talk about right now. sniff sniff). Anyway ASL was the first and only set of rules that actually gave me a headache. I distinctly remember one time as I was driving somewhere (okay that kinda blows the "distinctly" away but bear with me) and I noticed a liscence plate on another car. I had just finished reading the rules. The liscence plate started with SMC- and I IMMEDIATLY translated it has Single Man Counter. At that time I figured I better leave the rules alone for awhile. We did play it and managed to have fun. All that being said I think that CM is more of a computer version of Yaquinto's games Panzer, Armour, and 88. Those games featured simultanious turn resolution (all turns were pre-plotted) and took angle of attack and the slope of armour into effect along with whether the shot was a rising or falling one and also included spotting ranges. I'd started a thread ages ago when we were still waiting for the release of the game to see if anyone else had played the Yaquinto games. BTS had never heard of them but a good number of other posters had. They were some fun games although my luck wasn't any better with them. I'll stop rambling now. I must remember not to post when I'm ill. Now where's that cough medicine? It sucks being sick on your day off. Cardinal Fang Nobody Expects The Spanish Inquisition Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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