How to proceed in battle ?!

[AdamPraha]

Hi, there.

A war spread over a large map, does not allow direct control.

That's why I only play defensive battles. When moving forward, the landscape changes quickly and it is not possible to follow the eyes of the "tanks.

So how do you do it...?

I know it might be in another game, but when an enemy appears it would be good if the game would stop "itself.

 

Or how else do I know that a tank is "flashing" at the other end of the map ? If it is not visible in the player's perspective ?   In the player's view of where he's looking...

And how do you deal with that, anyway?

 

 

Edited April 2 by AdamPraha

[Vacillator]

I play WeGo, and usually do one or more replays of each turn to get an overview of 'things happening'.  I then zoom in and replay things that look exciting or which might bite me in the *** if I ignore them.

But it sounds like you're playing Real Time?

[AdamPraha]

10 minutes ago, Vacillator said:

I play WeGo, and usually do one or more replays of each turn to get an overview of 'things happening'.  I then zoom in and replay things that look exciting or which might bite me in the *** if I ignore them.

But it sounds like you're playing Real Time?

  Sure thing. I'm playing it as an RTS.

What button do you use to switch to WeGo ?

[Vacillator]

You choose it as an option at the start of each battle.  Not sure you can switch mid-battle, it's a thought though.

[Thewood1]

I think the OP might be playing the wrong game, as he admits.  Or maybe just take a glance at a manual now and then.  There's a time for "RTFM" and a time to actually read the manual.

[AdamPraha]

16 hours ago, Thewood1 said:

I think the OP might be playing the wrong game, as he admits.  Or maybe just take a glance at a manual now and then.  There's a time for "RTFM" and a time to actually read the manual.

Turn based. 

But that's the whole game then. But it's only needed in an uncluttered map.

It's not a tactical solution.

This switches the whole game completely into a turn-based game.

But I'm only talking about a partial solution to an cluttered control. 

Nothing in the 200 page manual says anything about that.
It's a very nice and clear manual, by the way. One of perfect manual in the world.

 

Otherwise, I've known about this problem for many years.
This is also the reason why nobody plays this game.
The impossibility of solving the attack for RTS players. As for your assumption, the manual doesn't say a word about it !

That proves you've never read the manual.

Edited April 3 by AdamPraha

[Monty's Mighty Moustache]

1 hour ago, AdamPraha said:

Turn based. 

But that's the whole game then. But it's only needed in an uncluttered map.

It's not a tactical solution.

This switches the whole game completely into a turn-based game.

But I'm only talking about a partial solution to an cluttered control. 

Nothing in the 200 page manual says anything about that.
It's a very nice and clear manual, by the way. One of perfect manual in the world.

 

Otherwise, I've known about this problem for many years.
This is also the reason why nobody plays this game.
The impossibility of solving the attack for RTS players. As for your assumption, the manual doesn't say a word about it !

That proves you've never read the manual.

Real-time, for me, is nigh on unplayable once you get above a certain size of force involved as it's far too easy to miss things. Combat Mission has always been a turn-based game, We-Go was their USP when CMBO came out, and the real-time mode was added later but it's fundamentally designed to be played in turn-based mode and I never play it any other way.

The only way I could imagine playing in real-time might work, for me - others probably have better ways to manage it, would be to watch from a high level overview and then pause and zoom in whenever something interesting happens. But then there is no ability to rewind and find out why it happened. I re-watch turns multiple times to make sure I catch everything I want to see.

[Thewood1]

2 hours ago, AdamPraha said:

That proves you've never read the manual

Well...I'm not the one asking about a fundamental function of the game that differentiates it from all others.  I'm also not the one splattering questions all over the place here and on Steam.  Again, you are correct.  The game probably isn't the one for you.  

[Ultradave]

Real time can be fun for some small sized battles. Even then, you are going to want to press the pause button to issue or change some orders. Doing so on the fly while also monitoring what's going on is pretty hard.

Real time or turn based is a choice at the beginning - one of the start screens, where you select, real time, turn based, PBEM, etc. 

Select turn based and the game will run in 1 minute increments. You can also replay each one minute to zoom in on a particular area. This is usually what I do - let it run at view 4 or 5, then re-run close up on a few areas depending on what I saw.

Everyone has their favorite way of playing. There's no wrong or right. That's why there are different choices and views available.

Dave

[AdamPraha]

48 minutes ago, Thewood1 said:

Well...I'm not the one asking about a fundamental function of the game that differentiates it from all others.  I'm also not the one splattering questions all over the place here and on Steam.  Again, you are correct.  The game probably isn't the one for you.  

Thank you for the inconsequential warning.  I'm gonna go take a pacifier.

Which is in no way related to the question of how to handle the attack procedure.

Edited April 3 by AdamPraha

[Thewood1]

Thats because you edited the message.

[Warts 'n' all]

The OP either hasn't read the manual, or he's just taking the pee.

[Vacillator]

3 hours ago, Ultradave said:

Everyone has their favorite way of playing.

I like to beat Dave one turn at a time .  And I'm sure the vice-versa applies.  He's certainly about to do that to me in Cold War .

[AdamPraha]

1 hour ago, Warts 'n' all said:

The OP either hasn't read the manual, or he's just taking the pee.

The manual doesn't say anything about how to resolve a battle in RTS mode.

Enemies just keep popping out of the bushes and there's nothing you can do about it. There's no technique for that...

 

However, I developed for the game myself one technique. It's a 17th century technique. Put more tanks in the firing line against the enemy. If the enemy has 2 tanks hidden in the bushes, I'll use 4 of my own against him in a row.

 

Edited April 3 by AdamPraha

[Brille]

25 minutes ago, AdamPraha said:

The manual doesn't say anything about how to resolve a battle in RTS mode.

Enemies just keep popping out of the bushes and there's nothing you can do about it. There's no technique for that...

This is a quote from the CMRT manual: "In Real Time, the action will be continuous and you can issue orders at any
time; you can also pause the game by pressing the ESC key and continue to
issue orders." (Page 9)

It also tells you that in the "hotkeys" option ingame.

So if you struggle and can´t keep up: Pause the game, give orders, un-pause and so forth.

If you haven´t enabled floating icons you surely should press ALT+i to get them. Those surely help with identifying enemy forces quickly.

[AdamPraha]

37 minutes ago, Brille said:

This is a quote from the CMRT manual: "In Real Time, the action will be continuous and you can issue orders at any
time; you can also pause the game by pressing the ESC key and continue to
issue orders." (Page 9)

It also tells you that in the "hotkeys" option ingame.

So if you struggle and can´t keep up: Pause the game, give orders, un-pause and so forth.

If you haven´t enabled floating icons you surely should press ALT+i to get them. Those surely help with identifying enemy forces quickly.

I've known all this for about 10 years. I have a game " Mius front for about 10 years.

I'm talking about the advanced battle progression on veteran difficulty.

Current tank battles seem to favor " box" formations. Also, the tank formations from the Battle of Kursk used the box formation technique. Just like in the good old game "  Order of War..

I'm just wondering what technique to use here in this game. For example, on the map "Cat and Mouse.

 

 

Edited April 3 by AdamPraha

[Erwin]

Adam, your questions are confusing.  it occurs to me maybe you don't have English as your first language.  Maybe post in your language and we'll try and translate.

[BFCElvis]

44 minutes ago, Erwin said:

Adam, your questions are confusing.  it occurs to me maybe you don't have English as your first language.  Maybe post in your language and we'll try and translate.

That is actually a very good idea. I ask that of people on the Help Desk from time to time when I don't understand what they're asking. Google Translate does a decent job. I have read his questions a few times now and I'm not sure that I understand what he is looking for. I kinda think he is suggesting that when a previously unspotted unit appears that the game should pause on it's own? If so, the game doesn't do that. I'm not sure how the 2 tank and 4 tanks comments fit into that though. 

[Vacillator]

1 hour ago, AdamPraha said:

For example, on the map "Cat and Mouse.

From which side? 

I played it in a PBEM as Soviet (and won, for what it's worth). 

The idea of 'box formations' doesn't register with me.  I keep tanks in units in close proximity to each other if possible (within reason), and do things like set up for over-watch where I can, but I don't form 'boxes' as their positions are dictated by cover such as treelines, hills, etc.  'Boxes' reminds me of Waterloo, a different type of battle.

I might be missing your point though, apologies if so.

[AdamPraha]

21 minutes ago, Vacillator said:

From which side? 

I played it in a PBEM as Soviet (and won, for what it's worth). 

The idea of 'box formations' doesn't register with me.  I keep tanks in units in close proximity to each other if possible (within reason), and do things like set up for over-watch where I can, but I don't form 'boxes' as their positions are dictated by cover such as treelines, hills, etc.  'Boxes' reminds me of Waterloo, a different type of battle.

I might be missing your point though, apologies if so.

Basically, yes. It's just that a bunch of tanks...or a mass of tanks has to advance somehow. I move a few of them forward and then move them back 10 meters after the shot.

At a range of 2,000 meters from the enemy is plenty of time to avoid a flying projectile. If you fire at an enemy you have time to start moving backwards as the enemy projectile comes at you.

(I think in this mission both sides have the same victory conditions. They only aim to get the most points.
 Not to take any position.)

Edited April 3 by AdamPraha

[Vacillator]

8 minutes ago, AdamPraha said:

a mass of tanks has to advance somehow

I assume you're still talking Real Time play (and in CM)? 

As I play WeGo (1 minute turns) to do what you say is rather difficult .  I can order a move forward let's say on slow or hunt looking for a target, if something of interest appears the tank might stop and shoot.  And if the target isn't destroyed it might sit there re-loading to fire again, and again if necessary.  Unless something had returned 'scary' fire which made the AI-crew decide to reverse.  Other orders/results are possible, just an example (and I should say WW2 based).

In Cat and Mouse neither of us advanced a 'mass of tanks' in formation, it was individual tanks in supportive roles.  Slowly, keeping cover as much as possible, supporting each other.

Out of interest, what's your gaming background - is it FPS games?  Or strategy games?  Just wondering if this is relevant to your questions.

[Vacillator]

1 hour ago, AdamPraha said:

(I think in this mission both sides have the same victory conditions. They only aim to get the most points.
 Not to take any position.)

Cat and Mouse - German gets points for spotting Soviet tanks (with Panthers), Soviets get points for killing German tanks.  A tricky one thanks to @George MC.

In our PBEM we started like this but then went for each other in true Cat and Mouse style.  Great game, lives in the memory.  Soviet win for me after thinking I'd lost it half way though.

[Brille]

10 hours ago, AdamPraha said:

I've known all this for about 10 years. I have a game " Mius front for about 10 years.

I'm talking about the advanced battle progression on veteran difficulty.

Current tank battles seem to favor " box" formations. Also, the tank formations from the Battle of Kursk used the box formation technique. Just like in the good old game "  Order of War..

I'm just wondering what technique to use here in this game. For example, on the map "Cat and Mouse.

 

 

So you want to know about (tank) tactics? That did not come over well from your Initial post.

 

With "Box formation" I guess you mean "massing tanks" ?

 

And yeah that is what is favored in real combat and it is what works best in Combat Mission. 

The problem is that you can't do that very often or just in a limited style in both realms.

Limiting factors are the terrain (swamps,forests, towns) and ressources at hand.

In your mentioned scenario "Cat and mouse" you dont need to fight at all...at least on the german Side.

But If you need to do it, it is best to have multiple Panthers to engage a spotted or suspected enemy position.

Overwhelm the enemy with local numerical superiority. Always consider that the other tanks shoot back and hit. So it would be beneficial to have one or two additional tanks that hopefully spot the ambusher and take care of him.

 

My general tactics are often to move the tanks in a pack pairs, so If one missed a shot or gets taken out, the other one can step right in to finish the job.

It is one of the simplest tactics honestly and a fundamental one that translates to mostly all encounters and to all categories:

Never let a unit walk alone!

 

That goes for tanks as it goes for infantry.

There may be some instances where a unit will turn rambo and actually achieve a thing but most of the time they'll get chewed up with no real gain.

 

[Monty's Mighty Moustache]

@AdamPraha if you haven't already seen it I'd recommend reading through the tactical toolbox on Bil's blog, has a lot of useful information. Here's a link to the movement techniques section: https://battledrill.blogspot.com/2013/08/tactical-skills002movement-techniques.html

[Ultradave]

13 hours ago, AdamPraha said:

Basically, yes. It's just that a bunch of tanks...or a mass of tanks has to advance somehow. I move a few of them forward and then move them back 10 meters after the shot.

At a range of 2,000 meters from the enemy is plenty of time to avoid a flying projectile. If you fire at an enemy you have time to start moving backwards as the enemy projectile comes at you.

(I think in this mission both sides have the same victory conditions. They only aim to get the most points.
 Not to take any position.)

"Cat and Mouse" is a whole different experience. You are supposed to find the enemy tanks without being found (and killed) yourself. That requires the opposite of massing your tanks and advancing forward. You need to carefully use covered approaches, keyhole firing positions that you can observe enemy movement from. Position your own tanks to be able to spot to the areas where enemy tanks are likely to be waiting. Treelines especially. You may need to bait them, and get them to shoot at you to expose themselves. You don't want to get into a running battle.

Read the briefings carefully. For what you are describing as your problems, pay close attention to the parts about expected enemy forces and intentions. Look at the map and figure out likely enemy locations or approaches before you hit Go. That will help you figure out what to expect.

And pause when you need to if you to react to things if you are playing RT. My experience has been that real time is fine for controlling maybe a Company (-) of infantry but beyond that it gets too hard and turn by turn is better. Cat and Mouse to me would be tough on Real Time because the map is huge and it's hard to see everything that is happening. I'd recommend turn based for that one for sure.

Also, keep in mind this is supposed to be a fairly realistic simulation of real combat. You aren't going to know everything about the enemy. You'll know general things, but you won't know his exact locations. Good scenario designers will a lot of times design surprises and traps to fall into. Keep that in mind as you are moving and don't get sucked in.

Dave