Battlefront.com Posted May 11, 2022 Share Posted May 11, 2022 5 minutes ago, Cederic said: The future is swarms: overwhelm defences through sheer numbers. I agree, but there's also counters in the works as well. This is from Rheinmetall: 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cederic Posted May 11, 2022 Share Posted May 11, 2022 Drone swarms vs automatic weapons firing AA proximity flak? Yeah, that's another CM game I'll buy 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Haiduk Posted May 11, 2022 Share Posted May 11, 2022 (edited) 41 minutes ago, Battlefront.com said: Thank you for that! And when a river crossing starts badly, it usually ends badly. When researching Soviet/Russian amphibious vehicle capabilities all of the factors you mentioned were discussed. You can clearly see in the big Soviet/Russian exercises that they carefully choose well prepared crossing points. That is not what happens in real life! Two other problems commonly mentioned are maintenance and currents. A poorly maintained vehicle is likely to sink and even a successfully floating one has limited abilities to fight currents. The wider the river, the stronger the current, the less likely the vehicle will hit the exit point on the other side. And as you say, it's not like a random spot is likely to work. I have always viewed the swimming aspect to be more strategic in nature than tactical. What Russia needs now is tactical crossing capabilities and that seems to be bridging. Steve Looking to this photo again, I have a feeling Russian light armor maybe crossed the river afloat - looks like both banks suitable for entrance and exit (see next photo), but something happened, when they exited on the bank. AT-mines? I don't see too much craters from arty fire, which could made this stockpile of scrapped metal. And much more photos of this crossing to the hell Edited May 11, 2022 by Haiduk 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Capt Posted May 11, 2022 Share Posted May 11, 2022 (edited) 5 minutes ago, Haiduk said: Looking to this photo again, I have a feeling Russian light armor maybe crossed the river afloat - looks like both banks suitable for entrance and exit (see next photo), but something happened, when they exited on the bank. AT-mines? I don't see too much craters from arty fire, which could made this stockpile of scrapped metal. And much more photos of this crossing to the hell DPICM? On that first one, I think I see small impacts. Edited May 11, 2022 by The_Capt 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Battlefront.com Posted May 11, 2022 Share Posted May 11, 2022 Here's an article I read a few weeks back but never got around to posting. It describes Ukraine's pre-war struggles to properly fund and structure a true professional military. You will note that many of the problems cited are similar to Russia's problems, except it seems Ukrainians want to serve. The evidence for that is money was not amongst their top complaints. Someone who is motivated to join only for money is not likely to put pay below all the other things. https://kyivindependent.com/national/ukraines-military-strive-for-long-service-contracts/ Also while you're there, check out this very good article on Moldova as of a few days ago. Nothing new, just good background information. https://kyivindependent.com/national/transnistria-becomes-potential-hotspot-in-russias-war/ Steve 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dan/california Posted May 11, 2022 Share Posted May 11, 2022 9 minutes ago, Cederic said: Drone swarms vs automatic weapons firing AA proximity flak? Yeah, that's another CM game I'll buy TAKE MY MONEY! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Huba Posted May 11, 2022 Share Posted May 11, 2022 11 minutes ago, The_Capt said: DPICM? On that first one, I think I see small impacts. Or a drone swarm 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Haiduk Posted May 11, 2022 Share Posted May 11, 2022 (edited) Now Bofors L40/60 in service %) Edited May 11, 2022 by Haiduk 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Haiduk Posted May 11, 2022 Share Posted May 11, 2022 Added to previous post zomed image of penetrated pontoons 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FancyCat Posted May 11, 2022 Share Posted May 11, 2022 (edited) Long thread, but goddamn, Russia ain't safe in the occupied territories. Okay, you gotta click on the map image to see it, but its basically east of Mariupol, a town controlled by Russia since 2014. Edited May 11, 2022 by FancyCat 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akd Posted May 11, 2022 Share Posted May 11, 2022 @sburke @Kinophile Lt. Col. Albert Karimov, GRU Spetsnaz 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danfrodo Posted May 11, 2022 Share Posted May 11, 2022 1 hour ago, Haiduk said: Looking to this photo again, I have a feeling Russian light armor maybe crossed the river afloat - looks like both banks suitable for entrance and exit (see next photo), but something happened, when they exited on the bank. AT-mines? I don't see too much craters from arty fire, which could made this stockpile of scrapped metal. And much more photos of this crossing to the hell looks like an entire BTG destroyed. Wow. unbelievable. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dan/california Posted May 11, 2022 Share Posted May 11, 2022 https://www.thedailybeast.com/putins-troops-finally-realize-theyve-been-hung-out-to-dry-intercepted-call-from-ukraine-suggests?ref=scroll You have to eat Russian Navy food, and THEN it gets unpleasant.... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cyrano01 Posted May 11, 2022 Share Posted May 11, 2022 1 hour ago, Battlefront.com said: I agree, but there's also counters in the works as well. This is from Rheinmetall: Impressive, so we need a SPAA system attached to what, every company, platoon? The accountants will have a cardiac. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Battlefront.com Posted May 11, 2022 Share Posted May 11, 2022 6 minutes ago, cyrano01 said: Impressive, so we need a SPAA system attached to what, every company, platoon? The accountants will have a cardiac. Whatever the solutions are, they will have to be very low level as it is unlikely that some sort of "umbrella defense" system will work. This system is too big and costly for that. It seems Rheinmetall is pitching this to fixed installations, such as oil refineries, ports, military bases, etc. Steve 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cyrano01 Posted May 11, 2022 Share Posted May 11, 2022 (edited) 29 minutes ago, Battlefront.com said: Whatever the solutions are, they will have to be very low level as it is unlikely that some sort of "umbrella defense" system will work. This system is too big and costly for that. It seems Rheinmetall is pitching this to fixed installations, such as oil refineries, ports, military bases, etc. Steve Agreed, doubly so since for the armoured units you'd need to stick it on tracks, we could call it son of Gepard. So what we need is a mobile, forward deployable, relatively low cost system with a wish-em-dead capability against multiple, small, potentially stealthy targets up to a few thousand feet and operable by the average infantrymen. Should be pretty straightforward. Edited May 11, 2022 by cyrano01 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Huba Posted May 11, 2022 Share Posted May 11, 2022 Very interesting read. What caught my attention is the statement that the border with Russia is not relevant anymore, as there are Russian forces concentrated in Belgorod, and RU artillery shells Ukraine from there. It sounds like preparing ground for over the border incursion to me. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dan/california Posted May 11, 2022 Share Posted May 11, 2022 2 hours ago, The_Capt said: DPICM? On that first one, I think I see small impacts. NATO 155 airburst? Instead if the 152 digging huge holes in the ground? A few point detonation rounds for the bridge itself? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Huba Posted May 11, 2022 Share Posted May 11, 2022 Video of M777 in action: 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Capt Posted May 11, 2022 Share Posted May 11, 2022 9 minutes ago, dan/california said: NATO 155 airburst? Instead if the 152 digging huge holes in the ground? A few point detonation rounds for the bridge itself? Based on how many of those vehicles caught fire and cooked off, I am betting HEAT and DPICM could do that, theoretically. That or a whole bunch of Switchblade 600s. Or an air strike, but again no crater. Obstacle crossing is one of my areas of expertise and at some point I do want to jump into that conversation. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Huba Posted May 11, 2022 Share Posted May 11, 2022 (edited) 41 minutes ago, The_Capt said: Based on how many of those vehicles caught fire and cooked off, I am betting HEAT and DPICM could do that, theoretically. That or a whole bunch of Switchblade 600s. Or an air strike, but again no crater. Obstacle crossing is one of my areas of expertise and at some point I do want to jump into that conversation. A little known fact is that Poland produces 122m DPICM rounds, both rocket and tube type. Apart from their own stock, Ukrainians probably got at least some with Polish 2S1 and BM-21 deliveries. Edit: Would it be possible that holes in pontoons were caused by falling cargo rounds bodies? I'm happy to be corrected on this, but I think DPICM would be too small to rip what seems to me more than 1x1m holes in the steel sheet, and any actual artillery round would just rip those to shreds while exploding (unless those were just duds?). Edited May 11, 2022 by Huba 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonS Posted May 11, 2022 Share Posted May 11, 2022 5 hours ago, domfluff said: effectively.https://20thcenturywargaming.wordpress.com/2013/06/16/why-cold-war-warsaw-pact-tactics-work-in-wargaming/ So... yeah. I do think the Soviet/Russi Nice to see John Salt getting a solid shout out. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danfrodo Posted May 11, 2022 Share Posted May 11, 2022 So once again it looks like UKR is working to cut off RU forces instead of frontal assaults. They are moving toward that Belgorod rail line NE of Kharkiv -- maybe they'd even make an incursion into Russia to cut it. If they are in artillery range they can really cut it and keep it from being repaired via intermittent shelling of section that's been cut via arty or air or special forces behind the lines. The Izyum salient is in danger of being cut off at the same time that units that would protect the salient are being sent NE of Kharkiv. And losing ~1 BTG per day. What a mess! And now they remove their big fancy theater commander. Things are looking good for Ukraine so far this week. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dan/california Posted May 11, 2022 Share Posted May 11, 2022 Can't vouch for authenticity, but fascinating if true. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
asurob Posted May 11, 2022 Share Posted May 11, 2022 10 minutes ago, dan/california said: Can't vouch for authenticity, but fascinating if true. Amazing work if it's true...thanks for this. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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