How Hot is Ukraine Gonna Get?

[Armorgunner]

@Battlefront.com

Steve, we need NLAWS, Javelins, stingers, and bodyarmor For the Ukraines in BS. And T-80U, T-80BVM, T-72B3 Obr 2016 for the Russians. Can you give us that?

Please Santa, We have been really nice the entire year 

 

Russias build-up took a considerable amount of time. In 2017, it would to. And West would have sent theese things to Ukraine in 2017 too, right? 

[db_zero]

14 minutes ago, Battlefront.com said:

BTW, I am surprised nobody pointed out that the M113s that seem to be on the way to Ukraine are most likely M577 Command Posts, not AFVs for infantry:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M577_Command_Post_Carrier

At least that is the most logical type to send over and it was also seen on the rail cars with the M109s.

Steve

Do we know that for sure? An assumption was made earlier that M109 Paladins were being sent based off a picture but it turns out towed artillery is what’s really being sent.

[Battlefront.com]

Well, that was a disappointingly mundane result from what looks to be a solid hit (2nd video, not 1st):

 

[Huba]

M109s seen near Gniezno, Poland has been going to Lithuania afaik.

[Battlefront.com]

1 minute ago, db_zero said:

Do we know that for sure? An assumption was made earlier that M109 Paladins were being sent based off a picture but it turns out towed artillery is what’s really being sent.

Even if the M109s aren't going over any time soon, Command Posts or other non-fighting M113 variants are what will be sent.  The US doesn't maintain M113s as IFVs so there are none to be sent.

Steve

[Battlefront.com]

CM related content in the video...

I can not count how many times customers have complained about CM's lethality not being high enough for "direct hits".  Notice the mortar? round hits right next to a bunch of upright and running soldiers.  I am sure a few went down because of it, and others got light wounds, but by the looks of it not many were immediately incapacitated.

Steve

[Huba]

47 minutes ago, db_zero said:

Sounds like splitting hairs but sending planes and setting up a base are 2 different things.

Like it or not one of the main goals is avoiding a larger expanded conflict and nukes being used.

This is still a proxy war. The last thing the West needs or wants is a general Russia-NATO war.

There were suggestions for some time, but now it's confirmed. It shouldn't be different to repairing M1s in Poland, a very small escalation at best:

 

[Armorgunner]

Flying turret of Russian tank

 

 

 

[dan/california]

In terms of the right beeping now weapons, 120mm mortars with guided rounds seem like easiest most useful thing we could be shipping, after Javelins. I can't imagine it would take more than a day for a Ukrainian mortar crew to familiarize itself with a different tube. They barely have moving parts. The Ukrainians obviously know how to use GPS, and/or laser guidance. And you can haul it around with three or four pick up trucks, including ammo. 

[Phantom Captain]

2 hours ago, Rooks And Kings said:

You should discuss your thoughts with Ssnake from ESim Games. 

I freaking LOVE Steel Beasts.  

[Armorgunner]

2 minutes ago, dan/california said:

In terms of the right beeping now weapons, 120mm mortars with guided rounds seem like easiest most useful thing we could be shipping, after Javelins. I can't imagine it would take more than a day for a Ukrainian mortar crew to familiarize itself with a different tube. They barely have moving parts. The Ukrainians obviously know how to use GPS, and/or laser guidance. And you can haul it around with three or four pick up trucks, including ammo. 

I think some SAAB/Bofors 120 mm STRIX rounds, would be perfect in combination with drones!

 

"STRIX is fired like a conventional mortar round. The round contains an infrared imaging sensor that it uses to guide itself onto any tank or armoured fighting vehicle in the vicinity where it lands. The seeker is designed to ignore targets that are already burning.

Launched from any 120 mm mortar, Strix has a normal range of up to 4.5 km. With the addition of a special sustainer motor, however, range can be increased to 7.5 km."

[db_zero]

12 minutes ago, Huba said:

There were suggestions for some time, but now it's confirmed. It shouldn't be different to repairing M1s in Poland, a very small escalation at best:

 

One very big difference. The Polish M1s are not actively engaging Russian forces at the moment. Ukrainian M1s would be. 

[Amizaur]

53 minutes ago, Kinophile said:

I've heard rumours from Polish relatives that Polish T72s are going on "exercise" and not returning, or simply going "missing", getting "stolen" and "somehow" turning up in Ukraine.

Tbh sounds like wishful thinking but in the same breath, I could totally see it happening also.

Yeah, there are roumors that some our tanks  that were left just for a minute unattended, disappeared and also some say that sound of Ukrainian tractors was heard in vicinity....

[dan/california]

https://twitter.com/War_Mapper/status/1516207986993254407/photo/1

Best map I have seen this morning.

[db_zero]

9 minutes ago, Phantom Captain said:

I freaking LOVE Steel Beasts.  

Great sim, but when first released I played around with the 4.0 version, I tried using  Armada's vs Javelin teams and because they didn't model APS from the top attack sector, the Javelins always killed the Armadas.

Don't know if that's been changed.

Apparently the rotary assets are not working properly too.

Edited April 19, 2022 by db_zero

[Armorgunner]

7 minutes ago, db_zero said:

Great sim, but when first released I played around with the 4.0 version, I tried using  Armada's vs Javelin teams and because they didn't model APS from the top attack sector, the Javelins always killed the Armadas.

Don't know if that's been changed.

Apparently the rotary assets are not working properly too.

Do we know that theese APS works at all? Or that it works against diving attack munitions, like the Jav?

[Kinophile]

37 minutes ago, Battlefront.com said:

Well, that was a disappointingly mundane result from what looks to be a solid hit (2nd video, not 1st):

 

Bloody hell that's a fast rocket. Sorry but CMBS stuff seems a little slow in comparison. Is this the Spanish ATGM?

[Der Zeitgeist]

In case anyone is wondering:

Nothing really new from Scholz re: heavy weapons shipments. Supposedly there's a list of items Ukraine wants to receive, and German industry can deliver with Germany paying for it. No clear statement if the government would approve Leopard / Marder or other heavy systems from that list.

[BeondTheGrave]

1 hour ago, Battlefront.com said:

For the second category I think there should be no talk of outdated weaponry.  Leo 1s shouldn't even be discussed, Abrams should be.  Why Abrams?  Because the US has plenty of them in stock, they are a proven system, and it seems they tend to beat out the competition when evaluated by militaries (Poland didn't just buy a whole bunch of Leo2s, for example).  Sure, the most up-to-date variants don't have to be sent over as any M1 still running is better than what Russia has and can be upgraded later.

AFAIK, and if you know better please correct me, the US has not ever exported the domestic versions of the M1A1 or A2s as they have DU armor inserts and a different layout. Australia I'm rather certain bought A1s manufactured without the DU layer. The more common export version, the A1M and the A2s built for Arab states have had further reductions in the overall performance to keep certain things controlled. The question for exporting A1s or A2s then isn't how many can USAREUR give up. Surely there are whole depots in Germany right now sitting around doing nothing. The real question is how many of these ex-Iraqi A1Ms or old first gen M1/M1IPs are still sitting around. Either that or the US has to break with its longstanding policy of not supplying these advanced models to other countries. For political and industrial reasons, the production of M1s has been low, constant, and largely for foreign markets. Probably the only new non-A2 models in the US right now have already been paid for by Saudi Arabia, Kuwait, or Iraq. Production could be ramped up and increased but also keep in mind Poland is now looking for, what, 200 newmade export M1s to replace tanks its already given to Ukraine? The facility in Lima is simply not currently set up to meet even these outstanding orders rapidly, they only produce a dozen tanks a month. 

So in terms of Abrams exports we have a bit of a stickler. How many A1Ms are unspoken for in the US currently? How fast could Lima ramp up production of more (probably not very)? Can the US convert A1s in storage into A1Ms and is that economical and time efficient to do so? Or is the US going to break with its export controls in the case of Ukraine, and then deal with some considerable fall out later? After all, is Poland really going to be satisfied with A1Ms when Ukraine gets the whole hog A2s? Will Saudi Arabia keep buying US gear if its being excluded from the best available? There are important policy questions beyond the feel-good measure of sending Ukraine the good stuff. 

Also load up the M60A1 into CMCW, its not as bleak as some are making it out to seem. The M60A1 can kill a T-64A at range, and can even get through the front of a T-72 under 500m. The Leo1 may not be the best anymore, but if Germany is sending the last production models with modern-ish ammunition, thermals, and a laser range finder its not so bad. The M60A3 TTS was a very nasty tank through the end of the Cold War. It just couldn't take a hit. If only we had Leos in CMCW to test out this matchup.... *cough* @The_Capt *cough*

Edited April 19, 2022 by BeondTheGrave

[Huba]

1 minute ago, Der Zeitgeist said:

In case anyone is wondering:

Nothing really new from Scholz re: heavy weapons shipments. Supposedly there's a list of items Ukraine wants to receive, and German industry can deliver with Germany paying for it. No clear statement if the government would approve Leopard / Marder or other heavy systems from that list.

You beat me to it  Here's a twitter thread describing the conference:

 

 

[kraze]

13 minutes ago, db_zero said:

Great sim, but when first released I played around with the 4.0 version, I tried using  Armada's vs Javelin teams and because they didn't model APS from the top attack sector, the Javelins always killed the Armadas.

Don't know if that's been changed.

Apparently the rotary assets are not working properly too.

I'd say that's realistic. That APS ain't going to work anyway either due to sanctions or corruption or both. Let's just consider that it was replaced with a wooden brick.

[Armorgunner]

8 minutes ago, Kinophile said:

Bloody hell that's a fast rocket. Sorry but CMBS stuff seems a little slow in comparison. Is this the Spanish ATGM?

Looks more like a German MATADOR to me

[db_zero]

10 minutes ago, Armorgunner said:

Do we know that theese APS works at all? Or that it works against diving attack munitions, like the Jav?

When 4.0 came out I created some test scenarios and APS was working when I fired ATGMs at the Armada, except for top sector attacks. I posted on the forums and they said top sector was not modeled in yet. Don't know if that's been added.

Also the NLAW has a bug and still needs to get fixed.

[Phantom Captain]

7 minutes ago, kraze said:

I'd say that's realistic. That APS ain't going to work anyway either due to sanctions or corruption or both. Let's just consider that it was replaced with a wooden brick.

Agreed.  

I know there is one mission against Armata's but I didn't really play it so can't answer if the Jav was working against it.

It's version 4.25 now.  Yeah, I have encountered some weirdness with helicopters but it doesn't detract, for me, the awesomeness of just getting to do everything in amazingly simulated tanks and armor.

I am new to it only having picked it up at 4.25 but absolutely loved the old M1 Tank Platoon and Panzer Commander back in the day.  

Edited April 19, 2022 by Phantom Captain

[Armorgunner]

1 minute ago, db_zero said:

When 4.0 came out I created some test scenarios and APS was working when I fired ATGMs at the Armada, except for top sector attacks. I posted on the forums and they said top sector was not modeled in yet. Don't know if that's been added.

Also the NLAW has a bug and still needs to get fixed.

I mean IRL