Battlefront.com Posted October 17, 2023 Share Posted October 17, 2023 1 minute ago, billbindc said: Yet another illustration of how Russia continues to be juked out of its shoes on the military intelligence front in this war. The Biden administration signaled strenuously that ATACMS were being delayed. It then sent them, the Ukrainians trained on them, set up a large scale attack and the Russians apparently missed it all completely. Now begins the scramble to pull Russian assets back out of range. All quite well executed. I think you're giving the Russians too little and too much credit at the same time. They might have known ATACMS were a immanent risk, but due to the usual Russian problems (bureaucratic intransigents, decision paralysis, arrogance, etc.) nothing happened on the ground. Imagine the first senior officer to suggest that helicopters should be proactively taken out of the fight or advocating for expensive/difficult work arounds to keep them at the front? Who thinks there's such an officer in the Russian MoD these days? I don't. So even the ones that pretty much knew this would happen said to themselves, "I have to wait until we have a disaster before I'm willing to risk my career". I could be wrong, of course, however I think most of Russia's intelligence failures in this war are more to do with bungling intel than not having it at all. Steve 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kimbosbread Posted October 17, 2023 Share Posted October 17, 2023 (edited) 18 minutes ago, Hapless said: If every fire team has a grenade launcher... maybe it's time 40mm buckshot made a comeback for anti-drone use. As I’ve posted a while ago, that only works if you can see the thing. Better is a mini-SDR drone detector that clips onto your vest, and then auto-launch a little interceptor on a squad basis, and then counter-battery, but for drones, that hunts the control signal. EDIT: I doubt you can hit a small drone moving at even 25mph with a pistol at 12y. Or a rifle at 100y. No way. Shotgun you have a chance, but a small one. Edited October 17, 2023 by kimbosbread 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Battlefront.com Posted October 17, 2023 Share Posted October 17, 2023 AP article (via The Hill) with some details about ATACMS getting to Ukraine. Apparently they were delivered a few days ago: https://thehill.com/homenews/ap/ap-politics/ap-for-the-first-time-ukraine-has-used-us-provided-long-range-atacms-missiles-against-russian-forces/ Steve 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mosuri Posted October 17, 2023 Share Posted October 17, 2023 Baltic sea, such a rough place for undersea infrastructure... another telecom link damaged, this time between Estonia and Sweden. https://www.dn.se/sverige/forsvarsministern-haller-presstraff-om-kritisk-infrastruktur-i-havet/ Must be earthquakes. Or Jaws. 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vanir Ausf B Posted October 17, 2023 Share Posted October 17, 2023 5 minutes ago, Battlefront.com said: AP article (via The Hill) with some details about ATACMS getting to Ukraine. Apparently they were delivered a few days ago: https://thehill.com/homenews/ap/ap-politics/ap-for-the-first-time-ukraine-has-used-us-provided-long-range-atacms-missiles-against-russian-forces/ Steve Interesting. According to this report Ukraine has the M39A version. If true that means most of Crimea is out of range. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dan/california Posted October 17, 2023 Share Posted October 17, 2023 (edited) 17 minutes ago, Vanir Ausf B said: Interesting. According to this report Ukraine has the M39A version. If true that means most of Crimea is out of range. Now give them the ones that will put the Kerch bridge in the water! Edit: And put out the production contracts so that the Russians know the Ukrainians can keep shooting them FOREVER. Edited October 17, 2023 by dan/california 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vanir Ausf B Posted October 17, 2023 Share Posted October 17, 2023 13 minutes ago, dan/california said: Now give them the ones that will put the Kerch bridge in the water! Edit: And put out the production contracts so that the Russians know the Ukrainians can keep shooting them FOREVER. I don't think there is any chance the US will ever order more ATACMs now that it's replacement is nigh. Supplying the longer ranged versions to Ukraine would be good but the Kerch Bridge is apparently off-limits for western-supplied munitions because of politics. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Capt Posted October 17, 2023 Share Posted October 17, 2023 57 minutes ago, kimbosbread said: Shotgun you have a chance, but a small one. Work pretty good on ducks and those little buggers can really move. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cesmonkey Posted October 17, 2023 Share Posted October 17, 2023 Russia claims to have shot down some of the missiles: https://t.me/mod_russia/31567 Quote An Mi-8 helicopter of the Ukrainian Air Force was shot down by air defense systems . Five operational-tactical missiles and four US-made GLSDB guided bombs were intercepted . 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cesmonkey Posted October 17, 2023 Share Posted October 17, 2023 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Battlefront.com Posted October 17, 2023 Share Posted October 17, 2023 3 minutes ago, Vanir Ausf B said: Interesting. According to this report Ukraine has the M39A version. If true that means most of Crimea is out of range. I think the US is doing the slow roll out, both in terms of numbers of missiles and which versions. They seem obsessed 13 minutes ago, cesmonkey said: I don't care how fanciful I think the concerns about Russian counter offensives might be if it results in Ukraine getting more stuff. Does anybody know of Russia cooking up brand new forces now that 25th CCA has been committed? There's supposedly an expansion of VDV, but that's fairly small. Unless Russia does another large scale mobilization I don't see where they are going to get the forces to conduct anything more than suicide charges against Ukrainian defenses. Steve 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kimbosbread Posted October 17, 2023 Share Posted October 17, 2023 29 minutes ago, The_Capt said: Work pretty good on ducks and those little buggers can really move. I didn’t realize how fast a duck can fly: 40-55mph for most species, but 70-100mph for the faster ones!? However, they can’t maneuver like a hummingbird, which is the real strength of quads, plus it’s harder to hit something coming at you at speed. At 60mph, you only have ~4s notice if object is 100yds away. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Battlefront.com Posted October 17, 2023 Share Posted October 17, 2023 Here's something that makes me a little concerned about Ukraine's capabilities. Russia has thinned its lines several times this year to keep the fighting in the south bottled up. Except for Bakhmut, and a few minor tactical skirmishes here and there, Ukraine hasn't seemed able to take advantage of it. Even crossing the Dnepr seems to have been fairly limited and (possibly) played out. With the premature pushing of the 25th CCA into Luhansk positions so that 2nd CCA could move down to Avdiivka, you'd think this would be an excellent opportunity to smash up inexperienced, poorly trained, and probably badly motivated forces. Every day that passes gives the Russians more time to acclimate, yet we're not seeing Ukraine do anything specific in this area. This seems to hint at Ukraine having hit some limitations of their own. Steve 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Capt Posted October 17, 2023 Share Posted October 17, 2023 2 minutes ago, kimbosbread said: I didn’t realize how fast a duck can fly: 40-55mph for most species, but 70-100mph for the faster ones!? However, they can’t maneuver like a hummingbird, which is the real strength of quads, plus it’s harder to hit something coming at you at speed. At 60mph, you only have ~4s notice if object is 100yds away. Ducks can zig and zag pretty well on the move. But not as maneuverable as a humming bird. I can see some sort of auto shotgun thing being employed for tac AP UAVs. Of course when we get to the point that using a single tac UAV to kill one person is sustainable as a viable alternative to fires…well just count me out. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dan/california Posted October 17, 2023 Share Posted October 17, 2023 1 hour ago, The_Capt said: Work pretty good on ducks and those little buggers can really move. Something coming straight at you is the easiest shot to make. The question is it worth the immense hassle of issuing every third soldier a modified bird gun. For all that the extended chase cenes make compelling video, most people get taken out by something they effectively never saw. I keep coming back to the idea that it ought to be possible to build small UAVs just to take out other UAVs. It must be harder than I think it is or we would be seeing it already. A lot of RWS turrets with anti UAV capability popping up in dribs a and drabs, but as The_Capt never tires of reminding us, at even a couple of hundred thousand dollars each the number requires quickly exceeds the ENTIRE defense budget of most countries. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vanir Ausf B Posted October 17, 2023 Share Posted October 17, 2023 For what it's worth, Abrams tanks are ready to roll. ______ The U.S. has delivered all the previously pledged 31 Abrams tanks to Ukraine, U.S. Army Europe and Africa Command's spokesperson Martin O'Donnell told the Voice of America. The Ukrainian soldiers who trained on Abrams with U.S. troops in Germany have also returned to Ukraine, along with ammunition and spare tank parts, according to O'Donnell. "We have lived up to our end of the bargain. From this point forward, it is up to them (Ukraine) to determine when and where they will deliver this capability," https://www.yahoo.com/news/voa-us-military-says-31-164251864.html 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Haiduk Posted October 17, 2023 Share Posted October 17, 2023 Some info from Kupiansk direction Russians gained some tree-lines between Orlianka and Ivanivka villages But here a part of price they paid Russian attempts to capture key village Syn'kivka led to... Russians lost some own positions near Lyman Pershyi 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dan/california Posted October 17, 2023 Share Posted October 17, 2023 22 minutes ago, Vanir Ausf B said: For what it's worth, Abrams tanks are ready to roll. ______ The U.S. has delivered all the previously pledged 31 Abrams tanks to Ukraine, U.S. Army Europe and Africa Command's spokesperson Martin O'Donnell told the Voice of America. The Ukrainian soldiers who trained on Abrams with U.S. troops in Germany have also returned to Ukraine, along with ammunition and spare tank parts, according to O'Donnell. "We have lived up to our end of the bargain. From this point forward, it is up to them (Ukraine) to determine when and where they will deliver this capability," https://www.yahoo.com/news/voa-us-military-says-31-164251864.html They needed two hundred not thirty. Given the issues with clearing mine fields I not sure if make more sense to commit these to an attack, and try to finally, truly break the Russian lines, or keep them as their last and final operational reserve. I think thirty Abrams would smash any conceivable Russian breakthrough if well handled. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vanir Ausf B Posted October 17, 2023 Share Posted October 17, 2023 14 minutes ago, dan/california said: They needed two hundred not thirty. Perhaps. I have a growing suspicion that what Ukraine needs more than anything is what the West cannot give them: soldiers. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seedorf81 Posted October 17, 2023 Share Posted October 17, 2023 56 minutes ago, dan/california said: Something coming straight at you is the easiest shot to make. The question is it worth the immense hassle of issuing every third soldier a modified bird gun. For all that the extended chase cenes make compelling video, most people get taken out by something they effectively never saw. I keep coming back to the idea that it ought to be possible to build small UAVs just to take out other UAVs. It must be harder than I think it is or we would be seeing it already. A lot of RWS turrets with anti UAV capability popping up in dribs a and drabs, but as The_Capt never tires of reminding us, at even a couple of hundred thousand dollars each the number requires quickly exceeds the ENTIRE defense budget of most countries. Underlining by me. Had the same thought, and someone asked earlier what to do against underwater-attackdrones and I think the same answer, anti-underwaterdrone-drones. Autonomous drones, like there were corvettes and frigates escorting WW2 convoys. May take some time, but should be possible. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carolus Posted October 17, 2023 Share Posted October 17, 2023 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_MonkeyKing Posted October 17, 2023 Share Posted October 17, 2023 3 hours ago, mosuri said: Baltic sea, such a rough place for undersea infrastructure... another telecom link damaged, this time between Estonia and Sweden. https://www.dn.se/sverige/forsvarsministern-haller-presstraff-om-kritisk-infrastruktur-i-havet/ Must be earthquakes. Or Jaws. https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-67138269 https://yle.fi/a/74-20055713 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Haiduk Posted October 17, 2023 Share Posted October 17, 2023 Bradleys as combat taxi likely delivered next "shift" of infantry to the thrench 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Haiduk Posted October 17, 2023 Share Posted October 17, 2023 Longer version of fire on Berdiansk airfield. Solsiers discuss about bad missile attack warning and try to understand how much helicopters are burning. They counted two Mi-8, Ka-52 and allegedly Mi-24 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Haiduk Posted October 17, 2023 Share Posted October 17, 2023 (edited) 40 minutes ago, Carolus said: Current ATACAMS version range. In theory Dzhankoy airfield can be next. Edited October 17, 2023 by Haiduk 12 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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