Battlefront.com Posted February 10, 2023 Share Posted February 10, 2023 5 minutes ago, sburke said: Ukraine American Football league had some reps at NFL honors and a nice presentation. Any question about popularity in US for Ukraine? Didn't think so. I was in our local appliance store today and saw a Ukraine solidarity sticker on the laptop of the saleswoman. You can also find Ukrainian flags all over the place even in my small town. Some surprising places too. The sun of one of local shops is a disabled US vet who is over in Ukraine doing civilian aid work. In the earlier part of the war we had multiple businesses doing fund raising events. In my 25 years living here I've never seen anything else like it except for 9/11. Not even BLM got this sort of high visibility support. Steve 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Battlefront.com Posted February 10, 2023 Share Posted February 10, 2023 3 minutes ago, chrisl said: A breakout of a few hundred km from Vuhledar and they'd be out wading in the Sea of Azov! It's only 100 km from Vuhledar to Mariupol and a complete cutting of the famous land bridge. It will be interesting to see what Russia's response is and whether the UA has dialed in targeting of routes that would get RU forces from Bakhmut to Vuhledar. Crap, 100 METERS is what I meant It really won't take much to get Russians all shook up. They are fighting a losing PR war as well as a losing kinetic one. They can't afford to have the loudmouthed nationalist bloggers starting to speculate that "Ukraine is on its way to Mariupol". Steve 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sojourner Posted February 10, 2023 Share Posted February 10, 2023 28 minutes ago, Battlefront.com said: Ukraine solidarity sticker on the laptop of the saleswoman. You can also find Ukrainian flags all over the place even in my small town. Some surprising places too. Senate Majority Leader Chuck Schumer accompanied by Senate Minority Leader Mitch McConnell, arrive for President Joe Biden’s State of the Union address to a joint session of Congress at the Capitol, Tuesday, Feb. 7 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aragorn2002 Posted February 10, 2023 Share Posted February 10, 2023 (edited) 11 hours ago, The_Capt said: Yeesh went straight for the “colonial” card. Ya we get it, Europe is a complex tapestry of cats, to which applying the action of herding is nearly impossible. Europe can be roughly divided into the Northwestern part (Germany, Netherlands, Belgium and the Scandinavian countries, unfortunately weakened by Brexit), democratic and cool headed, the Southern part (Greece and Italy), democratic but somewhat unpredictable and the Eastern part (Poland and Hungary) less and less democratic and therefor unpredictable. Use that as a rough guide to understand European politics and you can't go wrong. Although Poland at the moment is trying to picture itself as the frontier of Western values, it is justifiably seen in the rest of Europe as undemocratic, self centred, greedy and more and more dictatorial. This is one of the biggest threats to European unity for the future and a factor the rest of Europe can't afford to ignore. Combine that with the confusing political situation in the US and the uncertainty after the next elections there and one may begin to understand the European dilemma. When it comes to unity I don't have to explain to an American how complicated and difficult that can be. All in all I think the EU has performed a very impressive show in that respect since ww2, unparalled in modern history. The same goes for the European aid to Ukraine, which is equally unparalled. Countries weakening their own defence to strengthen that of another country. I call that damned impressive. Edited February 10, 2023 by Aragorn2002 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chuckdyke Posted February 10, 2023 Share Posted February 10, 2023 (edited) 15 minutes ago, Aragorn2002 said: Europe can be roughly divided into the Northwestern part (Germany, Netherlands, Belgium and the Scandinavian countries, The old Hansa League countries. Not many people heard about the Hansa League across the big pond. Easy to see the buildings had the same style. You hit the nail on the head with Poland, they lost their independence for a long time not for nothing. Northern Poland also was a member of the Hansa League. For people who wonder it was an economic alliance something the like EU is today. Edited February 10, 2023 by chuckdyke 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aragorn2002 Posted February 10, 2023 Share Posted February 10, 2023 (edited) 46 minutes ago, chuckdyke said: The old Hansa League countries. Not many people heard about the Hansa League across the big pond. Easy to see the buildings had the same style. You hit the nail on the head with Poland, they lost their independence for a long time not for nothing. Northern Poland also was a member of the Hansa League. For people who wonder it was an economic alliance something the like EU is today. Not really relevant, Chuckdyke, let's not go into that. My post will get enough flak as it is. Just wanted to bring some nuance in the eternal discussion about European division and indecision. Edited February 10, 2023 by Aragorn2002 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zeleban Posted February 10, 2023 Share Posted February 10, 2023 7 hours ago, panzermartin said: But seriously a jet slower than a P51 mustang? Why does a Stormtrooper need to be fast? 500 km/h or 900 km/h for MANPADS missiles or AAA with radar guidance is irrelevant. And for conventional anti-aircraft artillery, targets with a speed of both 500 km / h and 900 km / h are an equally difficult target 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Artkin Posted February 10, 2023 Share Posted February 10, 2023 35 minutes ago, Zeleban said: Why does a Stormtrooper need to be fast? 500 km/h or 900 km/h for MANPADS missiles or AAA with radar guidance is irrelevant. And for conventional anti-aircraft artillery, targets with a speed of both 500 km / h and 900 km / h are an equally difficult target Getting out of the AO quickly is probably pretty important, I imagine that's part of it. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zeleban Posted February 10, 2023 Share Posted February 10, 2023 11 minutes ago, Artkin said: Getting out of the AO quickly is probably pretty important, I imagine that's part of it. Exit at 500 km/h slow exit? Let's be honest with ourselves, modern military aviation has nothing to do with car racing like formula 1. World War II aviation had much more to do with racing due to the lack of accurate and long-range weapons. F / A - 18 is significantly inferior in speed to other modern fighters like the MiG-29 or Su-27, this does not at all make it vulnerable to these types of aircraft due to more advanced weapons, electronic warfare systems, radar, pilot ergonomics. In modern combat, the A-10C will not need to quickly exit close combat. After all, modern weapons allow him not even to engage in close combat 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BletchleyGeek Posted February 10, 2023 Share Posted February 10, 2023 1 hour ago, Aragorn2002 said: Europe can be roughly divided into the Northwestern part (Germany, Netherlands, Belgium and the Scandinavian countries, unfortunately weakened by Brexit), democratic and cool headed, the Southern part (Greece and Italy), democratic but somewhat unpredictable and the Eastern part (Poland and Hungary) less and less democratic and therefor unpredictable Interesting that you left entirely out the South Western bit of Europe (better food, inflation more or less under control, etc.)... I guess that is the legacy of three hundred years of on-off warfare with France and Spain... 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aragorn2002 Posted February 10, 2023 Share Posted February 10, 2023 (edited) 7 minutes ago, BletchleyGeek said: Interesting that you left entirely out the South Western bit of Europe (better food, inflation more or less under control, etc.)... I guess that is the legacy of three hundred years of on-off warfare with France and Spain... Time to forgive and forget, I know, and yet.... Edited February 10, 2023 by Aragorn2002 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Artkin Posted February 10, 2023 Share Posted February 10, 2023 6 minutes ago, Zeleban said: Exit at 500 km/h slow exit? Let's be honest with ourselves, modern military aviation has nothing to do with car racing like formula 1. World War II aviation had much more to do with racing due to the lack of accurate and long-range weapons. F / A - 18 is significantly inferior in speed to other modern fighters like the MiG-29 or Su-27, this does not at all make it vulnerable to these types of aircraft due to more advanced weapons, electronic warfare systems, radar, pilot ergonomics. In modern combat, the A-10C will not need to quickly exit close combat. After all, modern weapons allow him not even to engage in close combat In the long run I can see it being somewhat practical, but currently Ukraine probably doesnt have enough of supporting infrastructure/gadgets to make use of A10s. Unless theyre strapping laser designators to drones now, that might be a good idea. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zeleban Posted February 10, 2023 Share Posted February 10, 2023 1 hour ago, Aragorn2002 said: Europe can be roughly divided into the Northwestern part (Germany, Netherlands, Belgium and the Scandinavian countries, unfortunately weakened by Brexit), democratic and cool headed, the Southern part (Greece and Italy), democratic but somewhat unpredictable and the Eastern part (Poland and Hungary) less and less democratic and therefor unpredictable. Use that as a rough guide to understand European politics and you can't go wrong. Although Poland at the moment is trying to picture itself as the frontier of Western values, it is justifiably seen in the rest of Europe as undemocratic, self centred, greedy and more and more dictatorial. This is one of the biggest threats to European unity for the future and a factor the rest of Europe can't afford to ignore. Combine that with the confusing political situation in the US and the uncertainty after the next elections there and one may begin to understand the European dilemma. When it comes to unity I don't have to explain to an American how complicated and difficult that can be. All in all I think the EU has performed a very impressive show in that respect since ww2, unparalled in modern history. The same goes for the European aid to Ukraine, which is equally unparalled. Countries weakening their own defence to strengthen that of another country. I call that damned impressive. Judging by some posts on this forum, sometimes it seems to me that in the event of a big war against a principled enemy like Russia or China, when concentration of forces, unity and inviolability are required, the countries of Europe will instead start fighting among themselves. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Butschi Posted February 10, 2023 Share Posted February 10, 2023 4 minutes ago, BletchleyGeek said: Interesting that you left entirely out the South Western bit of Europe (better food, inflation more or less under control, etc.)... I guess that is the legacy of three hundred years of on-off warfare with France and Spain... France is considered to be more in the Southern Europe camp which is in the North-Western Camp more characterized by loose money spending politics. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aragorn2002 Posted February 10, 2023 Share Posted February 10, 2023 1 minute ago, Zeleban said: Judging by some posts on this forum, sometimes it seems to me that in the event of a big war against a principled enemy like Russia or China, when concentration of forces, unity and inviolability are required, the countries of Europe will instead start fighting among themselves. That is of course an exaggeration. But there's also a Europe after the Ukrainian war to think about. That doesn't mean that we shouldn't be united in our efforts to help Ukraine kick the Russians out of their country and welcome them into EU/NATO. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BletchleyGeek Posted February 10, 2023 Share Posted February 10, 2023 I am halfway through the latest video of Andrew Perpetua and Constantine (two Twitter personalities I have been following for a while) in which they do a "battlefield walk" around Bakhmut I found quite enlightening to see what is the lay of the land in the area of those two pincers that the Russian Army is developing north and south of Bakhmut. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aragorn2002 Posted February 10, 2023 Share Posted February 10, 2023 2 minutes ago, Butschi said: France is considered to be more in the Southern Europe camp which is in the North-Western Camp more characterized by loose money spending politics. You're a braver man than I am, Butschi. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BletchleyGeek Posted February 10, 2023 Share Posted February 10, 2023 3 minutes ago, Butschi said: France is considered to be more in the Southern Europe camp which is in the North-Western Camp more characterized by loose money spending politics. Monetarism has become the new Catholicism. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Butschi Posted February 10, 2023 Share Posted February 10, 2023 2 minutes ago, Zeleban said: Judging by some posts on this forum, sometimes it seems to me that in the event of a big war against a principled enemy like Russia or China, when concentration of forces, unity and inviolability are required, the countries of Europe will instead start fighting among themselves. That's the club you want to join. And by the way it was founded on the very principle you find so much fault in w.r.t. to Russia: political integration through economic integration. We just too often do the latter without getting to the former... 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zeleban Posted February 10, 2023 Share Posted February 10, 2023 1 minute ago, Butschi said: political integration through economic integration What territories do you think Russia has integrated with the help of the economy? I only know territories captured as a result of aggressive wars 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LongLeftFlank Posted February 10, 2023 Share Posted February 10, 2023 5 minutes ago, Aragorn2002 said: Time to forgive and forget, I know, and yet.... Lol, my Oostindische blood brother, another man born a century too late, liked to say, archly: L'Afrique commence à la Loire. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aragorn2002 Posted February 10, 2023 Share Posted February 10, 2023 3 minutes ago, Zeleban said: What territories do you think Russia has integrated with the help of the economy? I only know territories captured as a result of aggressive wars You misunderstand the post, Zeleban. Read it again. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Butschi Posted February 10, 2023 Share Posted February 10, 2023 3 minutes ago, Zeleban said: What territories do you think Russia has integrated with the help of the economy? I only know territories captured as a result of aggressive wars I was talking about European and especially German politics towards Russia. "Wandel durch Handel" (change through trade). Worked pretty well for Europe... less so for Russia. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LongLeftFlank Posted February 10, 2023 Share Posted February 10, 2023 12 minutes ago, BletchleyGeek said: I am halfway through the latest video of Andrew Perpetua and Constantine (two Twitter personalities I have been following for a while) in which they do a "battlefield walk" around Bakhmut I found quite enlightening to see what is the lay of the land in the area of those two pincers that the Russian Army is developing north and south of Bakhmut. Yes, Perpetua is really good. I need to send him a few coins. And speaking of acid commentary.... ...But wait, did Strelkov also pronounce the early 'culmination' of the '2023 Gerasimov Offensive'? 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zeleban Posted February 10, 2023 Share Posted February 10, 2023 1 minute ago, Aragorn2002 said: You misunderstand the post, Zeleban. Read it again. You are right the translator let me down. I have automatic translation from google. otherwise I would never have been able to keep up with this forum thread 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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