Sekai Posted February 9, 2023 Share Posted February 9, 2023 (edited) It appears that Wagner has stopped recruiting. The senior ranks of the Russian military may have felt uneasy due to Prigozhin's ascent to prominence. Edited February 9, 2023 by Sekai 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chuckdyke Posted February 9, 2023 Share Posted February 9, 2023 1 minute ago, Butschi said: This seriously gets ridiculous. So now everyone who isn't firmly in the "Russia sux, lol, Ukraine has already won" camp is pro Putin? Really? If you use putin language in my book you're pro putin. Russia the Russia of the Napoleonic age, Russia the Russia of the Soviet Union. Russia as the Soviet Union beat Germany. If talk like this becomes the urban myth Ukraine is in a real danger of losing. Just by being passionate about the truth they can win. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beleg85 Posted February 9, 2023 Share Posted February 9, 2023 (edited) Interesting, even taking corrections on traditional Girkin's doomsaying. Now the question is if Dirlewagenrites stopped developing because they roughly did their job (holding UA at Bakhmut for winter, giving the rest of the time for training) or because they failed at their task. A lot of knowledge of inner workings of Russian GenralStaff and leadership would be required to answer that question; perhaps only Western intelligence can know it. Edited February 9, 2023 by Beleg85 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anon052 Posted February 9, 2023 Share Posted February 9, 2023 (edited) This looks very bad for SpaceX and Musk: It seems the russians use new drone jamming systems that work. I just hope there will be enough pressure on SpaceX to revert this change. I don't know how important Starlink is for Ukraines drone war but it could seriously hamper Ukraine. Edited February 9, 2023 by Anon052 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chuckdyke Posted February 9, 2023 Share Posted February 9, 2023 Found the numbers of the Ukrainian contribution during WW2 fighting as one of the Soviet Units. During the war, about 4,500,000 Ukrainians served with the Soviets, and 1,400,000 were killed in service. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grimtechnique Posted February 9, 2023 Share Posted February 9, 2023 @chuckdyke seriously your behaviour is wild. Accusing others of holding putin sentiments for stating what is well regarded as historical orthodoxy in regards to the russian will to keep on fighting despite horrendous losses i think actually should garner some warning from the admins here. You are poisoning the well imo and should probably take some time to chill out before posting again. 10 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Butschi Posted February 9, 2023 Share Posted February 9, 2023 13 minutes ago, chuckdyke said: If you use putin language in my book you're pro putin. Russia the Russia of the Napoleonic age, Russia the Russia of the Soviet Union. Russia as the Soviet Union beat Germany. If talk like this becomes the urban myth Ukraine is in a real danger of losing. Just by being passionate about the truth they can win. Well, which country actually has the same borders today as 100 years ago? If you go by that half of this thread, the one frequently doing historical comparisons is pointless. No country won WW2 all by itself and I don't think anyone said so. But it is a historical fact that the Soviet Union played a very major part in the Allied victory. By extension, since the Russian population made up roughly 60% of the Soviet Union, a large part of the credit goes to Russia. Denying that is a kind of historic revisionism that may be politically convenient right now but is factually wrong. Moreover, the tide was turned near at Moscow, Leningrad and Stalingrad, which, when last I took a look on the map was Russian proper not Ukrainian or Lithuanian or Kazakh or whatever. If pointing out that makes one pro-Putin then I think this thread is dead for all intents and purposes because then I can just as well go into any other echo chamber on the internet. Btw. that wasn't even what @Seedorf81said. He just said that this is what Russians think and that is what influences their will to go on. 7 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beleg85 Posted February 9, 2023 Share Posted February 9, 2023 Nice. Curious if StromShadows will manage to be in time for Russian Offensive. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lethaface Posted February 9, 2023 Share Posted February 9, 2023 12 hours ago, NamEndedAllen said: The problem is the assumption that “the average soldier” knows as much as we do about the overall shape of the war, moment to moment. Given the depictions of the RA, the careless treating of newly mobilized/seized citizens as practically fodder, and the overall clamp within Russia on factual knowledge about events in the war and the world, I have doubts that average soldier will know about a defeat far away in another sector of the war. I have doubts they even know much beyond their own unit. Whether higher command levels might become radicalized by defeats they do know of is another question. Love of Mother Russia and their military could conceivably come into play if they believe the civilian authority is destroying both. That too would be a big leap. WWII is fresher in Russian minds than 1917, and the military was, as we used to say in Wyoming, whipped like a rented mule - prior to and during that war. Some sort of collapse of some kind will always be a possibility. The difficulty is understanding how likely, and when. The war is only been a year old now. The 'average' soldier probably doesn't exist, but I think it's fair to conclude that they aren't living in the stone age and also read telegram/millbloggers and phone home / friends. The war until now has caused quite the bit of stirrups among the TV propagandists, millbloggers, etc. More setbacks = more outcry. Some of that will reach the troops. They will probably indeed not know what we know, but might know more about what's going on at their position/part of the front. And I can't really fathom they won't know about Kiev, Kharkov, Kherson etc. Maybe not all details, but that's not necessary I'd say. When all your operations are failing while the enemies operations are succeeding, only the most foolhardy people will keep believing in the cause indefinitely. I don't think the average mobik or even contractniki is in it to die for special operation. Also, early on in ww2 the USSR army was rapidly disintegrating. If they weren't fighting for their own country, with Moscow virtually in range of German artillery (+ Leningrad under siege, Kiev/Minsk fallen, etc), I doubt we would have seen the same stubborn resistance on the part of the USSR soldiers. But indeed, we don't have crystal balls unfortunately. It will happen when it will happen. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Butschi Posted February 9, 2023 Share Posted February 9, 2023 (edited) 58 minutes ago, poesel said: Which country do you think would oppose Ukainian membership given that there would be peace? I don't know, really. But basically every country that still has beef with Ukraine (Hungary, maybe?) or doesn't think it gains enough for an increased danger of getting drawn into a the next conflict between Russia and Ukraine is a candidate. Or any country that after the war thinks it can gain more by pleasing Russia than by defending Ukraine. Edited February 9, 2023 by Butschi 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Huba Posted February 9, 2023 Share Posted February 9, 2023 (edited) 17 minutes ago, Beleg85 said: Nice. Curious if StromShadows will manage to be in time for Russian Offensive. I did a quick search, but it looks like UK doesn't operate any other weapons that could be considered "long range" when compared to GMLRS, except the mentioned Storm Shadows. Well, Tomahawks... I guess they will have to rig them to some ground launchers, but it shouldn't be that difficult. Considering that GLSDB will be sent too, and probably quite soon, it looks like there are no sensible targets for the Scalp, except the Crimea Bridge and some airfields/ bases in the south of the peninsula - 2023 tourist season can be considered cancelled already In other news, I couldn't find the original Bloomberg info, but this is being reposted widely now, so is probably true: UK will be training UA pilots on Eurofighters. Edited February 9, 2023 by Huba 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kinophile Posted February 9, 2023 Share Posted February 9, 2023 2 hours ago, chuckdyke said: Not giving up 130000 primary Russians fought on the German side. Novgorod was according one veteran I knew one heck of a friendly city among a few others. You strike me definitely as pro putin in your post. Giving credit when it is not due. Russian Liberation Army - Wikipedia Seems excessive, Tbh... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beleg85 Posted February 9, 2023 Share Posted February 9, 2023 11 minutes ago, Huba said: I did a quick search, but it looks like UK doesn't operate any other weapons that could be considered "long range" when compared to GMLRS, except the mentioned Storm Shadows. Well, Tomahawks... I guess they will have to rig them to some ground launchers, but it shouldn't be that difficult. Considering that GLSDB will be sent too, and probably quite soon, it looks like there are no sensible targets for the Scalp, except the Crimea Bridge and some airfields/ bases in the south of the peninsula - 2023 tourist season can be considered cancelled already In other news, I couldn't find the original Bloomberg info, but this is being reposted widely now, so is probably true: UK will be training UA pilots on Eurofighters. The question is if they will be ready for this offensive- doesn't look like. Still massive props for Brits. Regarding this latest interview with Estonian intelligence, worth to check this document. Not a lot of new stuff for members of this board, but still one may take a look: https://kaitseministeerium.ee/en/mythsandlessons 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zeleban Posted February 9, 2023 Share Posted February 9, 2023 34 minutes ago, Butschi said: But it is a historical fact that the Soviet Union played a very major part in the Allied victory. By extension, since the Russian population made up roughly 60% of the Soviet Union, a large part of the credit goes to Russia. Speaking about the role that the USSR played in the end of the Second World War, everyone forgets the role of the USSR in unleashing the Second World War (attack on Poland, attack on Finland, occupation of the Baltic countries, occupation of the Bessarabia and Moldova). It's just that Hitler was more insane than Stalin, so he got the laurels of the main villain. Personally, I think that the real winner in World War II is Great Britain. The only state that participated in this war from the very beginning to the very end 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eddy Posted February 9, 2023 Share Posted February 9, 2023 Interesting RUSI article around some of the challenges of providing Tranche 1 Typhoons Giving RAF Typhoons to Ukraine Would Be a Very Expensive Symbolic Gesture | Royal United Services Institute (rusi.org) Long and short of it is that Typhoons are less suitable for lots of reasons and that the Gripen C is a much better fit. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lethaface Posted February 9, 2023 Share Posted February 9, 2023 8 hours ago, Battlefront.com said: Not shocking revelation that Putin personally signed off on sending the Buk to Ukraine that shot down MH-17, but a bit surprising prosecutors see to have evidence ("strong indications") he did: https://www.reuters.com/world/asia-pacific/mh17-investigators-halt-probe-without-further-prosecutions-source-2023-02-08/ Steve Read about that yesterday, there are taps/recordings of those involved saying that there is one person who can give the clearance but that that person is in France. Putin was at that time in France for the D-Day memorials. Not long after the BUK was delivered. Afaik that is basically the premise for the 'strong indications'. Added to that the fact that Putin was/is inviolable as the president of the country, so there's not much to do even if they could 100% prove he personally signed the BUK off. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zeleban Posted February 9, 2023 Share Posted February 9, 2023 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kinophile Posted February 9, 2023 Share Posted February 9, 2023 1 hour ago, Sekai said: It appears that Wagner has stopped recruiting. The senior ranks of the Russian military may have felt uneasy due to Prigozhin's ascent to prominence. Welcome @Sekai! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kinophile Posted February 9, 2023 Share Posted February 9, 2023 (edited) 8 minutes ago, Zeleban said: Speaking about the role that the USSR played in the end of the Second World War, everyone forgets the role of the USSR in unleashing the Second World War (attack on Poland, attack on Finland, occupation of the Baltic countries, occupation of the Bessarabia and Moldova). It's just that Hitler was more insane than Stalin, so he got the laurels of the main villain. Personally, I think that the real winner in World War II is Great Britain. The only state that participated in this war from the very beginning to the very end Well... Poland, right? Government stayed in existence, maintained polish military formations and even returned. But this is sliding rapidly off topic Edited February 9, 2023 by Kinophile 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kinophile Posted February 9, 2023 Share Posted February 9, 2023 (edited) 1 hour ago, Anon052 said: This looks very bad for SpaceX and Musk: It seems the russians use new drone jamming systems that work. I just hope there will be enough pressure on SpaceX to revert this change. I don't know how important Starlink is for Ukraines drone war but it could seriously hamper Ukraine. It's very bad for the front line. Christ, what a post-truth shill he is. But, Yknow, he's probably putting pressure on the Pentagon to buy Starlink off him, or at least fund it. And he'll breezily do that bargaining with the lives of ZSU soldiers, the limbs of their children and the shattered husks of their cities as his coinage. Edited February 9, 2023 by Kinophile 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DesertFox Posted February 9, 2023 Share Posted February 9, 2023 46 minutes ago, Beleg85 said: Nice. Curious if StromShadows will manage to be in time for Russian Offensive. That one has been reworded to "the issue of long-range weapons and fighter jets for Ukraine SEEMS like it can be resolved" by Yermak Jimmy Rushton deleted his tweet. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LongLeftFlank Posted February 9, 2023 Share Posted February 9, 2023 10 minutes ago, Zeleban said: Woot! #KillAllTheTrucks! 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zeleban Posted February 9, 2023 Share Posted February 9, 2023 I don't know if it's true 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billbindc Posted February 9, 2023 Share Posted February 9, 2023 52 minutes ago, Butschi said: Btw. that wasn't even what @Seedorf81said. He just said that this is what Russians think and that is what influences their will to go on. Do we know this is what Russians actually think? I mean any Russian with a modicum of historical memory remembers Afghanistan, 1917, the Russo-Japanese War and they live in a society where vocalizing doubt about this war is quite likely to ruin ones life. I would submit that we don't really *know* what Russians think and what is portrayed as Russian thought is very often a projection of Western beliefs about Russia. And because we don't know that really, then definitive statements about how Russians will react en masse at any given moment are really just stabs in the dark. If you don't believe me, I would strongly suggest going back and looking at Western newspapers in the lead up to the Bolshevik Revolution and during its early days. It's sobering. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zeleban Posted February 9, 2023 Share Posted February 9, 2023 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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