The incredible richness of the CM games

[Freyberg]

On 9/27/2021 at 12:23 AM, dbsapp said:

...But there is difference between "not always happen as it should" and "happen too often as it shouldn't"

On 9/27/2021 at 1:18 AM, Redwolf said:

Random randomness is not helpful, in other words

I've never had that problem - and I've played a lot of Combat Mission.

[Bufo]

56 minutes ago, Freyberg said:

I've never had that problem - and I've played a lot of Combat Mission.

Yeah I also use my imagination.

Like when half of my infantry squad killed themselves with an rpg grenade because a destroyed tank happened to be just in front of them and this game doesn't calculate that into the line of fire and also doesn't simulate arming distances.

I just tell myself, yes they were killed because...it was a faulty rpg and a round detonated prematurely.

With imagination, you can turn any game into a good game

[Freyberg]

41 minutes ago, Bufo said:

Like when half of my infantry squad killed themselves with an rpg grenade because a destroyed tank happened to be just in front of them and this game doesn't calculate that into the line of fire and also doesn't simulate arming distances.

Keep playing, get better at the game and at tactics, and 'random bugs' will happen to you less often...

[chuckdyke]

Like doors which don't open on the side of the building you want to enter. Instead the troopers go to the other side of the street and get decimated. But hang on you need to make your own entrance as doors and windows are supposed to be booby trapped. I can live with that one now. 

[Bufo]

1 hour ago, Freyberg said:

Keep playing, get better at the game and at tactics, and 'random bugs' will happen to you less often...

LoL

[Sgt.Squarehead]

1 hour ago, chuckdyke said:

Like doors which don't open on the side of the building you want to enter.

That's usually largely down to the scenario designer, not the game engine.

The player can contribute too, by trying to rush multi-section units through a single entrance. 

Split squads and teams rarely have the issue you describe on a map where the doors are placed correctly (which requires an awful lot of patience on a MOUT map).

[chuckdyke]

9 minutes ago, Sgt.Squarehead said:

The player can contribute too, by trying to rush multi-section units through a single entrance. 

First mission of the Aachen campaign. The buildings on the left have non working doors. You suggests it could be a bug? Or sloppy editing. 

[Sgt.Squarehead]

I don't seem to have an 'Aachen Campaign'.....Where would I find it? 

[chuckdyke]

4 minutes ago, Sgt.Squarehead said:

I don't seem to have an 'Aachen Campaign'.....Where would I find it? 

Sorry should have quoted the proper name. I always call it Aachen. 

[Sgt.Squarehead]

OK I just looked at that.....'The Buildings On The Left' is a bit vague, can you give me a clue?

PS - The usual cause for issues in my experience is a slope of greater than 1 or 2 elevation levels directly down to a door, it also seems a flavour object can sometimes obstruct an entry, as can walls under certain conditions.

Edited September 28, 2021 by Sgt.Squarehead

[Sgt Joch]

Well, in the Aachen campaign, which I have partly slogged through, the Germans have weapons covering pretty much all the entrances and expected approaches, so trying to enter that way is usually expensive...

OTOH, you have a lot of engineer units so you can blast through walls and make your own "doors" which is what I did.

Edited September 28, 2021 by Sgt Joch

[chuckdyke]

11 minutes ago, Sgt.Squarehead said:

can you give me a clue?

[chuckdyke]

6 minutes ago, Sgt Joch said:

OTOH, you have a lot of engineer units so you can blast through walls and make your own "doors" which is what I did.

That was not the topic. We discussed in which manner doors should work. The buildings I pointed at are definitely sloppy. You're right you're supposed to make your own entrance. You have infantry and engineers, I approached the building as I remember with the infantry units.  

[Sgt.Squarehead]

OK.....Those look to be independent buildings, which I don't use much as they are not available in CM:SF2. 

I'll have a look at 'em, but 'the doors don't work' is again very vague.....Which doors, approached from which direction and with how many men in one go?

Not trying to be difficult, but testing and adjusting a MOUT map of any kind is not something to be undertaken on a whim.....Especially in a campaign format.

[Sgt Joch]

7 minutes ago, chuckdyke said:

That was not the topic. We discussed in which manner doors should work. The buildings I pointed at are definitely sloppy. You're right you're supposed to make your own entrance. You have infantry and engineers, I approached the building as I remember with the infantry units.  

well if you want to be picky about it, "doors" are not the subject of this thread either...

 

[chuckdyke]

4 minutes ago, Sgt.Squarehead said:

I'll have a look at 'em, but 'the doors don't work' is again very vague.....

Has been two years since I played that campaign. The buildings were in the centre of that block. I put a scouting unit on hunt in the last 45 seconds of a turn. He proceeded to walk to the other side. No harm done I was aware of it. 

[chuckdyke]

1 minute ago, Sgt Joch said:

well if you want to be picky about it, "doors" are not the subject of this thread either...

Topic is incredibly rich, some things could be improved to make it richer. It is just a friendly discussion. Kind regards. 

[Sgt.Squarehead]

Just now, chuckdyke said:

I put a scouting unit on hunt in the last 45 seconds of a turn. He proceeded to walk to the other side. No harm done I was aware of it.

Ah, so it's just one particular building? 

See now finding that bugger could take a while.....Still, at least it's not Ramadi, eh:

 

[chuckdyke]

Just now, Sgt.Squarehead said:

See now finding that bugger could take a while.....Still, at least it's not Ramadi, eh:

I would have to replay it. Please don't lose any sleep over it. I live with the fact that I regard it as a booby trap. It were a few doors with these buildings. 

[Sgt.Squarehead]

I really wasn't going to.....With an issue like that the only person who can actually sort it is the designer and to do so he would need screenshots and probably also a save of the problem turn to gain a full understanding of what's going on. 

It would also need to warrant his expenditure of time as he'd have to recompile the campaign after making the fix (assuming a fix is actually needed or possible).

 

Edited September 28, 2021 by Sgt.Squarehead

[Combatintman]

I tested the Aachen Campaign, which is one of @benpark's, creations, who is no slouch as a map maker, or a campaign designer for that matter, and had the problem of troops handrailing the side of that street to come into the building from the opposite side.  It actually didn't cause me any dramas during testing and it certainly isn't sloppy design.  That building type, which I think first came in with the Market Garden module definitely has issues which, as far as I am aware, are documented on Battlefront's bug tracker.

[Sgt.Squarehead]

4 minutes ago, Combatintman said:

That building type, which I think first came in with the Market Garden module definitely has issues which, as far as I am aware, are documented on Battlefront's bug tracker.

There's your answer @chuckdyke.....I know from personal experience that @Combatintman wouldn't let bugged buildings slide in a test. 

[chuckdyke]

9 hours ago, Combatintman said:

and had the problem of troops handrailing the side of that street to come into the building from the opposite side. 

Yes that is the one I experienced it has probably been patched up. Of the modern series FB was the 2nd game I bought RT was the first and which ran on Engine 3 FB always played on Engine 4. Regards to you both. 

[John Kettler]

On 9/26/2021 at 6:23 AM, dbsapp said:

I agree with you, every good game should have some randomness and illogical component that make it less mechanistic and finite. 

dbsapp,

Was stopped momentarily in my tracks because I thought it said "that make it less masochistic..." Thought, until I discovered I'd misread, that was quite the harsh characterization of the game.

Regards,

John Kettler