Berlin CMRT Map

[NPye]

Just sent. Cheers

Edited November 29, 2022 by NPye

[NPye]

24 minutes ago, Lucky_Strike said:

Could you send me a copy of the bmp so that I can integrate it with the models for the FO chimneys.

Just sent bud. Cheers

[Artkin]

I was watching a youtube video of David Glantz and he said the best books for the battle of Berlin are by Tony Le Tissier. 

They look cheap too. I will pick them up eventually since Glantz recommended them, but first his stalingrad books. 

[NPye]

8 hours ago, Lucky_Strike said:

Cool  Your texture looks sooo much better. Great images - bit of the old dark satanic mills going on there.

 

LOL had to look that up... lol cheers

[RockinHarry]

On 11/29/2022 at 1:06 PM, NPye said:

Unfortunately they are just silhouettes added in PS... Not in game this scene with be the last so i needed some surrendering German Soldiers.

 

Hehe... I did bits of guessed that. I´d tried messing with the surrender ani as well, but with still no proper access to MDS... ... but would be nice to have. Similar to old CM where POW had to be walked away.

On 11/29/2022 at 3:46 PM, JM Stuff said:

Ah thanks Harry to clarified, yes some darks point that we didnt before are more clear day by day, such deep research are really usefull, but we have to grab sometimes also the "forgot" mods availabe in the CMMODs III.

JM

There´s still so many great stuff at SD3 and GAJ. Before I start on creating my own things I keep looking there first. Don´t have time for reinventing the wheel usually. I also found some Mark´s mods I didn´t even know before.

On 11/29/2022 at 6:27 PM, Lucky_Strike said:

Yes for sure the game uses shaders for more than just movie mode and shaders on/off. Normal maps seem to be used for some objects but not other. We know they don't influence ground tiles, I'm also doubtful they have much influence on buildings. Some of the third party model parts for the chimney had ready made normal maps but I can't really see them working, though sometimes the effects of normal maps can be very subtle.

Yes, likely depends on normal map´s details I guess. I know fairly little about them ATM. Have tried making 2-3 myself with mediocre results. There might be just a certain valid range for CM NM colors and then beeing fed to the shader files. Needs bits more investigation. IIRC there must be some older forum threads about that already.

On 11/29/2022 at 6:27 PM, Lucky_Strike said:

The way the game handles destruction of buildings is quite simple, but introducing extra parts to buildings with all the mechanics to allow for destruction of those parts adds a lot to the modelling process. I can see why BF have limited the types of buildings we have to mostly just empty boxes.

Guess there was little demand for stuff like that so far. And BFC modellers likely more beeing busy with adding new verhicle models for the games, old or newer ones. Considering age of the game and graphics engine there might have been concerns re game performance. But that was 10 years ago. Or more. Now even me has a half way decent computer now. It´s just 3 years gone since I switched from a stone age WinXP scrap box.

On 11/29/2022 at 6:27 PM, Lucky_Strike said:

Yeah, it's a lot of extra work. Just testing and making the detsroyed parts required more than simply taking off chunks of the building. I did consider adding extra fallen masonry and metalwork but firstly wondered about how the engine would handle stuff outside of the bounds of the building - BF didn't do this'd be  so there may be a reason. There are certainly problems with visibility of building parts, the disappearing walls we already see is likely down to where the origin for a flat part can be placed since it seems that it must be in frame for the part to be visible, which means a damaged wall needs both front and back faces. Thus models of piles of rubble would perhaps need to be duplicated within the models several times to be visible. It gets very complicated and adds a lot to the memory footprint for each model.

Interesting and promising idea actually. Could made to work for mod builds maybe since there´s objects where other objects can be attached to. There´s nothing like that for indi builds IIRC. I guess basic planes and boxes are kept in a CM LUT. Why else ain´t there actual geometry MDR to be found for stone walls and such. That misteriously missing MDRs. For flat rubble one also needs to consider the game engine needs some free 1m nodes for rubble flavor auto placements. And this thing is bits of buggy already. (floating rubble FO)

On 11/29/2022 at 6:27 PM, Lucky_Strike said:

This all starts to feed into why certain elements like doodads are treated how they are - it's less of a burden on the game engine to have grass, for example, rotate to always face the viewpoint rather than have three or four of the same model present so that we can move around it and see it. Perhaps this is why trees are such a heavy load, imagine what it would be like if everything was 3D, we'd be lucky to get 1 or 2 FPS!!

That might well be. Considering the game engine´s age as said. I´m playing games like Skyrim, ARMA 3 etc and used to way better things graphically. I only run into issues when I max out each and every graphic setting but never goes down lower than say 10-15 FPS. And these ARE all real time and not WEGO. But BFC had to invent RT to CM....

On 11/29/2022 at 6:27 PM, Lucky_Strike said:

The second consideration with regard to adding extra rubble was that the last stage of destruction uses textures common to all the buildings so would affect all our ruins.

I think texture names (material) can be rerouted so then aren´t common anymore. Did that on couple of things actually. But buildings is bits of a different, more complicated breed unfortunately. And there´s that random element, where the game engine swaps texture sets when starting a game. One the bigger annoyances when carefully setting up facades/roofs for urban environments, then seeing CM f*cks it all up.

On 11/29/2022 at 6:27 PM, Lucky_Strike said:

Yeah they kinda slide out of the map to the Underverse, rather thank break apart. Good tip about having tests by the map edges

Some the things one discovers by chance usually. But helps on understanding and making use of some the games mechanics for own purposes.

Edited November 30, 2022 by RockinHarry

[RockinHarry]

21 hours ago, Artkin said:

I was watching a youtube video of David Glantz and he said the best books for the battle of Berlin are by Tony Le Tissier. 

They look cheap too. I will pick them up eventually since Glantz recommended them, but first his stalingrad books. 

yep, I´ve couple of them. Very good stuff for 1945 battles on german soil.

[Artkin]

1 hour ago, RockinHarry said:

yep, I´ve couple of them. Very good stuff for 1945 battles on german soil.

Do they contain a lot of TOE information?

[Bubba883XL]

quick question, regarding building skins, i.e windows, do the windows still need to be on to be able to see out of said building?? just unsure if this has been changed to allow the pillar buildings to operate same and look cool...

bubba

[NPye]

7 hours ago, Bubba883XL said:

quick question, regarding building skins, i.e windows, do the windows still need to be on to be able to see out of said building?? just unsure if this has been changed to allow the pillar buildings to operate same and look cool...

 

Hi, can you be more specific as there are quite a few pillar buildings?? Cheers

[RockinHarry]

19 hours ago, Artkin said:

Do they contain a lot of TOE information?

It depends. The smaller (or focused) the topic, the more detailed it is usually. Just had a quick look into his 33rd SS Charlemagne book and it´s fairly detailed IMO.

Edited December 1, 2022 by RockinHarry

[Bubba883XL]

On 12/1/2022 at 6:49 AM, NPye said:

Hi, can you be more specific as there are quite a few pillar buildings?? Cheers

well, no lol not really. its your mod..lol you tell me .if the windows aren't on the buildings that look like pillars no one can see out...so its just for the visual effect etc  yes??

bubba

[NPye]

There are no windows on the Brandenburg gate, as there are none. The Reichstag has usable windows, and the big grey one can have windows although I sometimes do not add them for tactical reasons, ie the user has to blast their wayin? Cheers

[NPye]

Anhalter Bahnhof

[Bubba883XL]

15 minutes ago, NPye said:

There are no windows on the Brandenburg gate, as there are none. The Reichstag has usable windows, and the big grey one can have windows although I sometimes do not add them for tactical reasons, ie the user has to blast their wayin? Cheers

cool pic. cheers fella

[NPye]

Konev Crosses the Teltow Canal April 24th 1945.

On the morning of April 24th, fierce fighting was taking place at the Teltow Canal – between the troops of Ivan Konev’s 1st Ukrainian Front and the 20th Panzergrenadier Division. With the latter successfully eliminating a bridgehead that the Red Army had established earlier at Lankwitz.

The previous evening nearly 3,000 guns and heavy mortars had been positioned to fire north across the canal – and into the city – bombarding the warehouses sheltering the Volkssturm detachments positioned alongside the 18th and 20th Panzergrenadier Division as waves of Soviet aviators joined in the pummelling of the defences.

With the attack starting at 6am on April 24th, this would be an even greater concentration of fire than Konev had unleashed on the Neisse river crossing eight days earlier.  
From a rooftop observation post, Marshal Konev was able to look out across the city of Berlin and assess the scene:

“From the roof of this building we had a fine view of Berlin, especially its southern and south-western districts. The left flank could be seen as far as Potsdam. Our field of vision extended to the right flank where, on the outskirts of Berlin, troops of the 1st Ukrainian Front and the 1st Belorussian Front were to link up.

I remember how vast the city appeared to me. I noted the massive old buildings, in which the district that lay before me abounded, and the density of these buildings; I took note of everything that might complicate our task of capturing Berlin. I also noticed the canals, rivers, and streams that crossed Berlin in different directions and were plainly visible from above. Such a multiplicity of water obstacles promised additional difficulties.

Before us lay a frontline city, besieged and prepared for defence. Had there been a reasonable government at the head of Germany, it would have been logical, under the circumstances, to expect from it an immediate surrender. Only surrender could have preserved what still remained of Berlin; it would also have saved the lives of many of its citizens. But it was apparently futile to expect a reasonable decision and we had to fight it out. As I gazed upon Berlin I reflected that its end would spell the end of the war and that the sooner we took the city the sooner the war would be over.”
The ad hoc nature of the city’s defence and the desperate finality of the fight that would take place in Berlin meant that the Soviet ground forces were expecting to engage in brutal urban fighting that would mean blood shed for every metre advanced.

Edited December 3, 2022 by NPye

[Artkin]

On 12/1/2022 at 1:26 PM, RockinHarry said:

It depends. The smaller (or focused) the topic, the more detailed it is usually. Just had a quick look into his 33rd SS Charlemagne book and it´s fairly detailed IMO.

The SS divisions were probably all over the place with their changing organizations. 

I am particularly interested in the forces that fought over Berlin. Is there a list of some sort like that? The smallest size of troops I'd be interested in identifying would be brigade or division. I told Npye that I could do the TOE work anyway.

[quakerparrot67]

On 12/3/2022 at 9:03 AM, NPye said:

 

 

 

damn... that looks good.  really, really good.  any street views under the natural lighting like that?   i really  like your more impressionistic/expressionistic  shots- some of them look like they belong on a gallery wall- but this looks amazing under the plain morning light.   just...wow.

[NPye]

Dusky evening as the wehrmacht battles against Konev's massive 1st Ukrainian Front tank troops...

like this ISU II heavy Soviet tank...

or this ISU 152

Can the German Rearguard units hold on whilst the bulk of the Battalion escape to prepared defence positions, before being surrounded and destroyed???

New scenario for Battle for Berlin, coming soon.

 

 

Edited December 6, 2022 by NPye

[RockinHarry]

On 12/5/2022 at 10:05 AM, Artkin said:

The SS divisions were probably all over the place with their changing organizations. 

I am particularly interested in the forces that fought over Berlin. Is there a list of some sort like that? The smallest size of troops I'd be interested in identifying would be brigade or division. I told Npye that I could do the TOE work anyway.

uh... Berlin battle is anything but my speciality. I could well imagine @NPye has lots of this info maybe.

[Lucky_Strike]

On 12/5/2022 at 9:05 AM, Artkin said:

The SS divisions were probably all over the place with their changing organizations. 

I am particularly interested in the forces that fought over Berlin. Is there a list of some sort like that? The smallest size of troops I'd be interested in identifying would be brigade or division. I told Npye that I could do the TOE work anyway

Artkin, have you seen Bloody Streets by A. Stephan Hamilton - he has a very extensive OOB of both German and Soviet forces for the whole campaign. Also worth a look is Panzers in Berlin 1945 which features good info about all the panzer units - anything that featured a tank or assault gun and some.

If you don't have access to either I can probably assist with some huhhum ropey screen shots of the parts that might interest you.

Le Tissier is always a good read but doesn't tend to do the TOE appendix stuff you might be after. Couple of other much more detailed titles that would give you info on individual units are For Europe which is about the Charlemagne division, and Tragedy of the Faithful by Wilhelm Tieke which details the III Germanisches Panzer Korps.

[Artkin]

13 hours ago, RockinHarry said:

uh... Berlin battle is anything but my speciality. I could well imagine @NPye has lots of this info maybe.

No worries, I was just interested in the book. Glantz is usually TOE/Grog heavy. His books are essentially a TIK video - all facts and zero emotion. Like to the point of boredom. But it does make the best possible resource for scenario design. This Christmas I've asked for more Glantz, and I'll check out Tissier too.

5 minutes ago, Lucky_Strike said:

Artkin, have you seen Bloody Streets by A. Stephan Hamilton - he has a very extensive OOB of both German and Soviet forces for the whole campaign. Also worth a look is Panzers in Berlin 1945 which features good info about all the panzer units - anything that featured a tank or assault gun and some.

If you don't have access to either I can probably assist with some huhhum ropey screen shots of the parts that might interest you.

Le Tissier is always a good read but doesn't tend to do the TOE appendix stuff you might be after. Couple of other much more detailed titles that would give you info on individual units are For Europe which is about the Charlemagne division, and Tragedy of the Faithful by Wilhelm Tieke which details the III Germanisches Panzer Korps.

I haven't but I will look into these. If I was able to get my hands on "The Technology of Tanks" and "The Military Balance", then I believe I should have luck with these titles as well. Thank you very much.

[Artkin]

On 11/25/2022 at 7:01 AM, RockinHarry said:

Black Sea maybe? Some new textures on air conditioner FO and voila...we get washing machines.

 

BRUH. That's amazing!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Half of CM to me is sceneric/dioramic and this is PERFECT for that. The infantry divisions really need stuff like this.

[NPye]

Winter at pavlov's House 1943.

[quakerparrot67]

3 hours ago, NPye said:

Winter at pavlov's House 1943.

reading beavor's   'stalingrad'  at the moment, just reached his account of  the fighting for this strongpoint...  58 days??? fighting for one building???  jumpin' jesus on a pogo stick , that's insane.   

great moody screenshot, looks like a landscape in a more  oppressively horrifying corner    of hell.  no boiling sulfur or pitchforks in evidence,  but you know that it's a place for the damned  just looking at it.   is this a new map/scenario, or one of the old ones with new mods, etc? 

cant say it enough, man, you really take the visuals of this game to totally new places.

 

cheers, rob

[RockinHarry]

20 hours ago, Artkin said:

On 12/7/2022 at 12:59 PM, RockinHarry said:

uh... Berlin battle is anything but my speciality. I could well imagine @NPye has lots of this info maybe.

No worries, I was just interested in the book. Glantz is usually TOE/Grog heavy. His books are essentially a TIK video - all facts and zero emotion. Like to the point of boredom. But it does make the best possible resource for scenario design. This Christmas I've asked for more Glantz, and I'll check out Tissier too.

Yep, great resources. Have a couple of him as well.

20 hours ago, Artkin said:

On 11/25/2022 at 1:01 PM, RockinHarry said:

Black Sea maybe? Some new textures on air conditioner FO and voila...we get washing machines.

 

Expand  

BRUH. That's amazing!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Half of CM to me is sceneric/dioramic and this is PERFECT for that. The infantry divisions really need stuff like this.

Pity it´s static FO only. But would likely be hard for BFC creating an AI for them I guess.