How will IR illumination work?

[akd]

This will be the first CM game in which both forces are widely equipped with, and largely dependent on, IR illumination for night fighting.  In CMSF and CMBS, where IR illuminators are present on older Soviet / Russian equipment, we assumed them to not be in use, as the opposition would have passive night vision that met or exceeded the abilities of IR illumination systems and of course would see them burning like torches in the night.  Consequently, the “IR” ability of vehicles without thermals is set to the passive IR abilities of the system.

This is a very different situation and would seem to require some different rules and doctrine.  How is it being tackled?

[The_MonkeyKing]

same question here:

lets see where we get the answer.

 

[Sgt Joch]

By this time period, all M60 variants were equipped with second generation night vision scopes and the M60A3 (TTS) and M1 Abrams had 1st gen thermal gunner sights. On those, yes, any IR searchlight turned on would stand out like a searchlight and be a perfect aiming point...

I will let you guess how that turns out in game.

Edited February 18, 2021 by Sgt Joch

[fireship4]

1 hour ago, Sgt Joch said:

I will let you guess how that turns out in game.

Or you could tell us if you are allowed?  Can you switch them on and off?  I imagine not, though a few more buttons (even just a single context-specific one) in the game wouldn't go amiss as far as I'm concerned.

Edited February 18, 2021 by fireship4

[Vergeltungswaffe]

3 hours ago, Sgt Joch said:

I will let you guess how that turns out in game.

With people whinging about multiple hits on the gun mantle.

[Sgt Joch]

sorry, I thought I was clear enough, IR Illumination is not modeled, the U.S. does not need it and it would be suicide for the Soviets to turn it on. 

[akd]

Hmm...there are quite a few 1st-gen systems in the US roster also, particularly on the 1979 end.

Edited February 18, 2021 by akd

[IICptMillerII]

15 hours ago, fireship4 said:

Can you switch them on and off? 

No.

18 minutes ago, Sgt Joch said:

it would be suicide for the Soviets to turn it on. 

This. 

[Sgt.Squarehead]

AFAIK out of the various US AFVs in the game only the M60 TTS & M1 had thermal imagers, everything else was in the same boat as the Soviets, with Active IR or image intensifiers.

Edited February 18, 2021 by Sgt.Squarehead

[Sgt Joch]

11 minutes ago, akd said:

Hmm...there are quite a few 1st-gen systems in the US roster also, particularly on the 1979 end.

original equipment yes, but by late 70s, everything from base M60A1 on up was supposed to have been retrofitted with the same night scope.

[Sgt Joch]

15 minutes ago, Sgt.Squarehead said:

AFAIK out of the various US AFVs in the game only the M60 TTS & M1 had thermal imagers, everything else was in the same boat as the Soviets, with Active IR or image intensifiers.

well no, the U.S. had much better nightscopes than the Soviets at this point, U.S. equipment was state of the art while the Soviets at this time were still using inferior IR sights.

The advantage of the thermal sights, along with improved fire control equipment is much better first hit probability of the A3 TTS and M1 compared to older M60 A1/A3 variants

Edited February 18, 2021 by Sgt Joch

[Sgt.Squarehead]

Yeah, just been reading up on it.....Seems like the Soviets were kind of stuck in Gen-1 for a while.  Guess they properly missed the boat on that one and they (or their successors) have been trying to catch up ever since.

Only slightly related, but definitely interesting Article.

 

Edited February 18, 2021 by Sgt.Squarehead

[MikeyD]

Well, if nothing else, at night the searchlights are uncovered. Whether the TC would dare to turn them on when facing the enemy is another matter. Night fighting involves a lot of 'under-the-hood' abstracted stuff that we don't know about unless Charles tells Elvis and Elvis tells us. Its rather like battlefield ground radar in CMBS, something I thought was just useless eye candy until a Usually Hapless Youtube video on BMP-3 showed me otherwise.

Edited February 18, 2021 by MikeyD

[Sgt.Squarehead]

I don't think it matters if he turns it on now, because I'm guessing that isn't fireworks overhead! 

[Badger73]

On 2/18/2021 at 1:27 PM, Sgt Joch said:

original equipment yes, but by late 70s, everything from base M60A1 on up was supposed to have been retrofitted with the same night scope.

Right.  By 1976, the US Army was introducing passive night vision devices to active duty armored forces.  Passive night vision completely changed night gunnery mechanics.