weapon2010 Posted April 20, 2019 Share Posted April 20, 2019 I thought a vehicle could hide behind a wreck and use that wreck as a shield of sorts, much like house? But i guess that only applies to non wrecked vehicles? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frenchy56 Posted April 21, 2019 Share Posted April 21, 2019 What do you mean? What happened? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
weapon2010 Posted April 21, 2019 Author Share Posted April 21, 2019 i had a panzer 3 behind a Tiger wreck, the Sherman shells went straight through the tiger wreck and destroyed the pz3. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ncc1701e Posted April 21, 2019 Share Posted April 21, 2019 This is strange because I do not have the same experience. Playing CMSF2, my US troops destroy a taxi. And, then, they use the wreck to obtain protection from small arms firing. This is the kid of whaou moment I like... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sgt.Squarehead Posted April 21, 2019 Share Posted April 21, 2019 38 minutes ago, ncc1701e said: This is strange because I do not have the same experience. Playing CMSF2, my US troops destroy a taxi. And, then, they use the wreck to obtain protection from small arms firing. This is the kid of whaou moment I like... I was going to say the same.....Dead vehicles definitely appear to (and certainly sound like) they provide cover in CM:SF2. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
weapon2010 Posted April 21, 2019 Author Share Posted April 21, 2019 yes I think troops absolutley gain the cover benefit from dead tanks, but i dont think vehicles do 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ncc1701e Posted April 21, 2019 Share Posted April 21, 2019 1 hour ago, weapon2010 said: yes I think troops absolutley gain the cover benefit from dead tanks, but i dont think vehicles do Shame I am not in front of my computer for the weekend. But, the best would be to open the editor. Create a tank on one side. Two tank on the other side, one of them destroyed. Then you can play around the scenario to try to reproduce what you are seeing. Are you able to do this? Otherwise, I will try once I am back in town. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Falaise Posted April 21, 2019 Share Posted April 21, 2019 I think I remember reading in the manual that wrecks can only protect infantry, not vehicles 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kalibri Posted April 21, 2019 Share Posted April 21, 2019 A very similar situation happened to me, while playing the CMRT. I put T-4 behind the light infantry vehicle, Sd.Kfz hoping to reduce the energy or trajectory of a projectile of a T-34. This did not happen, after replaying this five times. The projectile went thru the Sd.Kfz five times without changing the trajectory or reducing energy and every time it went thru my T-4 completely destroying it. The only explanation I find is that the thickness of the side is 14,5 mm and even thou the projectile had to go thru two of these side walls, it did not reduce much of each energy. But it is still questionable how come there is no change of trajectory after going thru 29 mm of armor. I think this is one of the game limitations. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Emrys Posted April 22, 2019 Share Posted April 22, 2019 6 hours ago, Kalibri said: But it is still questionable how come there is no change of trajectory after going thru 29 mm of armor. I think this is one of the game limitations. I think you are probably right. There is so much packed into CM that we often react with surprise and dismay when something that we expect to find is instead absent from the game. Michael 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Falaise Posted April 22, 2019 Share Posted April 22, 2019 page 53 of the manual:"The only exception to this rule is that vehicles are not protected by hiding behind stunned armored vehicles ..."so even behind a destroyed tiger, 2 tigers, 3 tigers etc .... 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sgt.Squarehead Posted April 22, 2019 Share Posted April 22, 2019 Good find.....Matches my own experiences. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghost of Charlemagne Posted April 23, 2019 Share Posted April 23, 2019 I know Falaise correctly pointed to it, but here it is directly from the manual: From CM Engine Manual v4.00, page 53: "Note: Virtually every bullet in CMx2 is tracked from muzzle to target. This applies to both small arms as well as heavy calibers. The principle of “what you see is what you get” applies: if only part of a vehicle is visible (e.g. behind a wall or partially concealed by a slope in the terrain) then only that part can be hit by direct fire. The only exception to this is that vehicles are NOT shielded by hiding behind knocked-out armored vehicles; however, infantry does gain cover in this situation. In fact, infantry also receives a blast protection bonus when an armored vehicle (live or knocked out) is between them and a very large explosion." But why is this? Why wouldn't knocked-out vehicles provide cover for other vehicles? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sburke Posted April 23, 2019 Share Posted April 23, 2019 If my recollection is right (and it certainly might not be) it had to do with some extremely gamey tactics. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A Canadian Cat Posted April 23, 2019 Share Posted April 23, 2019 It has to do with the AI's inability to manoeuvre for the shot. Similarly, AI controlled vehicles cannot pull back to hit high targets that the gun cannot elevate to target, so they are allowed to shoot at targets to high for the gun. They also cannot make minor adjustments - backup some and move forward so they are 10m to the left - in order to get at enemy vehicles behind already wrecked vehicles. So, limitation for a reason. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sgt.Squarehead Posted April 23, 2019 Share Posted April 23, 2019 That makes a lot of sense.....Sadly the gun elevation thing really throws a spanner into the works for Mujahidin in Afghanistan & Chechnya. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A Canadian Cat Posted April 23, 2019 Share Posted April 23, 2019 Yeah it would be nice to allow for the ability to escape by going up and thus forcing the enemy to relocate or find a different solution. We just have to design around that in scenarios. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
weapon2010 Posted April 23, 2019 Author Share Posted April 23, 2019 7 hours ago, sburke said: If my recollection is right (and it certainly might not be) it had to do with some extremely gamey tactics. those extremely gamey tactics your refering to still can be used with "live" tanks. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frenchy56 Posted April 23, 2019 Share Posted April 23, 2019 (edited) 21 minutes ago, weapon2010 said: those extremely gamey tactics your refering to still can be used with "live" tanks. Well, as said earlier the AI is not programmed to, or in other words is too stupid to counter those. Edited April 23, 2019 by Frenchy56 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sburke Posted April 24, 2019 Share Posted April 24, 2019 1 hour ago, weapon2010 said: those extremely gamey tactics your referring to still can be used with "live" tanks. we may not be referring to the same gamey tactics. I'll see if I can dig up the reference 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vanir Ausf B Posted April 24, 2019 Share Posted April 24, 2019 (edited) 1) Friendly vehicles never block LOS/LOF for other friendly vehicles. 2) Operable enemy vehicles block LOF, but not LOS, from friendly vehicles. 3) Non-smoking KO'd vehicles do not block LOS/LOF for friendly or enemy vehicles. 4) Non-smoking KO'd vehicles block LOF, but not LOS, from any unit as long as the targeted unit is not a vehicle (ie: tank shooting at infantry or infantry shooting at infantry) 5) Smoking vehicles block LOS and LOF. 6) "Vehicles" means tanks, SP guns, and AT/Anti-personnel guns. Edited April 24, 2019 by Vanir Ausf B 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MOS:96B2P Posted April 24, 2019 Share Posted April 24, 2019 1 hour ago, Vanir Ausf B said: 1) Friendly vehicles never block LOS/LOF for other friendly vehicles. 2) Operable enemy vehicles block LOF, but not LOS, from friendly vehicles. 3) Non-smoking KO'd vehicles do not block LOS/LOF for friendly or enemy vehicles. 4) Non-smoking KO'd vehicles block LOF, but not LOS, from any unit as long as the targeted unit is not a vehicle (ie: tank shooting at infantry or infantry shooting at infantry) 5) Smoking vehicles block LOS and LOF. 6) "Vehicles" means tanks, SP guns, and AT/Anti-personnel guns. +1 Good info. Thanks. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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