Is Panther that invincible?

[Bulletpoint]

On 21/6/2016 at 7:33 PM, akd said:

On 21/6/2016 at 6:53 PM, shift8 said:

Tanks already do aim for weak points. Higher experience crews have higher chances to do this etc.

 

No, they do not.  TacAI aims for center of visible mass.

Yes, sometimes I wonder if half this game is really only happening inside player's heads  

Edited July 3, 2016 by Bulletpoint

[MikeyD]

Anyone whose played with CMBN or CMFI Churchills knows pixelGermans in the game LOVE trying to hit the recessed gun mount. Hits to the hull appear to be entirely random but hits to the turret are definitely focused on that weak spot. I recall that Charles (somehow) had adjusted the likelihood that a Panther will receive a glancing blow off the bottom of the gun mantlet, deflecting the shot down into the hull top (from impossible to VERY rare). Lately when I've been playing with Panther I've been losing them to shots to the 60mm lower bow. Don't know if I'm just unlucky or if the opposing AT guns are aiming for it.

[akd]

41 minutes ago, MikeyD said:

Anyone whose played with CMBN or CMFI Churchills knows pixelGermans in the game LOVE trying to hit the recessed gun mount. Hits to the hull appear to be entirely random but hits to the turret are definitely focused on that weak spot. I recall that Charles (somehow) had adjusted the likelihood that a Panther will receive a glancing blow off the bottom of the gun mantlet, deflecting the shot down into the hull top (from impossible to VERY rare). Lately when I've been playing with Panther I've been losing them to shots to the 60mm lower bow. Don't know if I'm just unlucky or if the opposing AT guns are aiming for it.

??? The recessed mount is in the center of the turret.  People are simply imagining things.  If you want proof that weak point aiming is not a thing in CM, simply play around with Soviet AT rifle teams for a bit.

[MikeyD]

No, there is a great difference between shot dispersion between the hull and the turret on Churchill.

[Vanir Ausf B]

Any differences in dispersion are likely random variation. Gunners in CM shift their point of aim slightly between shots but the shifts are random, not directed at any particular area.

[Bulletpoint]

I believe that gunners aim for centre of mass when the full tank is in view, and then shift their aim slightly up when status changes to partly hull-down, and finally shift up once again for targets that are fully hull-down.

Since tanks are very often in partly hull-down status due to hedges, walls, and small changes in terrain (even when you're not actively trying to get a hull-down position), it makes sense that most shots statistically hit the upper part of tanks.

[A Canadian Cat]

Yep, they fire at the centre of mass of what is visible of the enemy tank.

[Vanir Ausf B]

On the y axis. They apparently do not make the same adjustment with regards to the x axis, which is rarely of any consequence but does occasionally lead to problems targeting tanks with highly off center turrets e.g. IS-2.

[A Canadian Cat]

Interesting I was just wondering about that.  I just had a case where the enemy placed his Sherman perfectly to fire through a human sized door in a high wall.  It was firing the main gun through the door at my advancing infantry and firing the .50cal over the top of the wall.  My Jadpanzer IV managed to spot the tank and its second shot went right through the door and holed the Sherman (first shot was high).  The third shot hit the wall to the right and knocked it down and the fourth shot hit pretty much dead centre.  That certainly could have been just luck but it sure felt like the gunner aimed through the doorway.  Of course the next shot felt more like the dummy was just doing as you suggested so who knows.  Sample size = 1 means nothing.  It was pretty cool though.

[Erwin]

Sounds like one of those LOS phenomenon where the AI is able to find a "pixel-wide" hole in a building or woods to make an "impossible" shot.  The human player can't see it.  It would be lovely if we could get down to ground level to eyeball terrain to get accurate LOS, but it's common that it doesn't work out...

[A Canadian Cat]

Ah, not a pixel wide gap, very make-able shot and since it was a JzIV camera level one is pretty much gun height so I could see what the gunner saw.

It was a great moment.

[Bloody Bill]

If it would of been my Panther your first shot would of hit my main gun making me useless for engaging enemy armor. 

[Artemis258]

On 03/08/2016 at 7:46 AM, Bloody Bill said:

If it would of been my Panther your first shot would of hit my main gun making me useless for engaging enemy armor. 

I'm playing a tank-heavy scenario atm - panthers on T-34-85's - and the number of times my poor kittens have been holed at 600-800 meters is making me cry Hull hits and turret hits, even angled hull hits have occasionally scored enough purchase to slaughter crew and disable vehicles! It's a massacre

[George MC]

1 hour ago, Artemis258 said:

I'm playing a tank-heavy scenario atm - panthers on T-34-85's - and the number of times my poor kittens have been holed at 600-800 meters is making me cry Hull hits and turret hits, even angled hull hits have occasionally scored enough purchase to slaughter crew and disable vehicles! It's a massacre

Take the range out to 1000m+ and you will see better results - generally Panthers spot faster and get more kills, T-34 85s struggle a wee bit, enough to give advantage Panthers. Still T-34 85s are tough opponents though. I'd still be tackling the T-34s from the flank rather than going toe to toe.

[Artemis258]

I wish terrain allowed for that

[George MC]

23 minutes ago, Artemis258 said:

I wish terrain allowed for that

Ah...