Hafer Posted May 4, 2016 Share Posted May 4, 2016 (edited) A few guys of my squad entered a building as part of an assault operations. Suddenly two guys of the squad (the ouside ones) get shot. Now all men of the squad got stunned. And finally the guys inside the building started running into the open and get shot, too. I know this behaviour in the cm series. But sometimes im shaking my head...wtf! Cheers, Hafer Edited May 4, 2016 by Hafer 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MOS:96B2P Posted May 4, 2016 Share Posted May 4, 2016 4 minutes ago, Hafer said: A few guys of my squad entered a building as part of an assault operations. Suddenly two guys of the squad (the ouside ones) get shot. Now all men of the squad got stunned. <Snip> Were all the troops part of the same squad and were you using the Assault command to attack into the building? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hafer Posted May 5, 2016 Author Share Posted May 5, 2016 13 hours ago, MOS:96B2P said: Were all the troops part of the same squad and were you using the Assault command to attack into the building? jap! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wodin Posted May 5, 2016 Share Posted May 5, 2016 Must admit would love it if this was modelled at the individual soldier level. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
womble Posted May 5, 2016 Share Posted May 5, 2016 It is. See threads in other places on suppression. They touch on morale. Short version: the display for the squad is an average for the team. It is entirely possible for a 3-team squad to be suffering Pinned for one team and no suppression at all for the other team(s) and the suppression meter display 3 bars until the Admin Split Teams command is used, when the true situation is revealed. Morale effects propagate within an unsplit squad faster than if the teams are split, but casualties in a split team affect that team worse than they would if there was a whole squad to "soak up" the attrition. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pak40 Posted May 5, 2016 Share Posted May 5, 2016 We CMx2 players have learned early on that splitting squads is essential to their morale, well being and anti-suppression benefits. However, I wonder how realistic this truly is? Splitting a squad in the game is just a game mechanic, but in real life a squad is always whole, even if one team is assaulting and the other supporting. For example, In real life if B team of a "split squad" saw it's A team get butchered by a machine gun in seconds then I think they would be quite upset no matter if they were "split" or "unsplit". Although I suppose they wouldn't suffer from the same suppression if they were separated enough. The problem in game is that you can have two split teams right next to each other, yet if one team takes all of the incoming fire then it is the only on that suffers with suppression. The other team wont be rattled. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WallysWorld Posted May 5, 2016 Share Posted May 5, 2016 I don't know about the whole squad being rattled at once because a few basically cracked. I'm playing a CMFI PBEM where one Italian squad basically broke under pressure, but I had one single soldier keep firing and firing while the rest of the squad cowered. Poor brave guy was eventually shot down. I thought that if you split squads all the time, some cohesion is lost when you recombine them? I thought that was the case, but I'm not sure. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MOS:96B2P Posted May 5, 2016 Share Posted May 5, 2016 On 5/4/2016 at 2:54 PM, Hafer said: A few guys of my squad entered a building as part of an assault operations. Suddenly two guys of the squad (the ouside ones) get shot. Now all men of the squad got stunned. And finally the guys inside the building started running into the open and get shot, too. <Snip> The Assault command can be disappointing especially when used to assault into a building. Administratively splitting the squad into fire teams works better than the Assault command. Below is a link to a recent discussion to include screenshots of what happens. http://community.battlefront.com/topic/122783-suppression-squad-splits-vs-assault-command/ 2 hours ago, WallysWorld said: I thought that if you split squads all the time, some cohesion is lost when you recombine them? I thought that was the case, but I'm not sure. No cohesion is lost ........ just the benefits of having them split. On the bright side they can redistribute ammo when recombined. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A Canadian Cat Posted May 6, 2016 Share Posted May 6, 2016 17 hours ago, Pak40 said: The problem in game is that you can have two split teams right next to each other, yet if one team takes all of the incoming fire then it is the only on that suffers with suppression. The other team wont be rattled. Ah, I'm not sure if you misspoke there or not. It is entirely appropriate for a team that is taking fire to become pinned and for another team near by that is not taking fire to be unaffected. The game does model this. The same holds whether or not the teams are split or combined into a squad. If the unit is combined into a squad you might not be able to tell this is happening since the combined suppression meter will not be pinned since half the squad is not feeling any suppression effects. But that does not change the fact that each solider has their suppression level tracked. Rattled is a morale state and when one team in a squad is taking causalities and lots of fire the morale of other teams and even other squads in the platoon can be affected. This is separate from suppression. To cause suppression the solider has to be hearing / feeling the bullets, shrapnel and blast personally. To cause morale to deteriorate can also happen by seeing what is happening to a soldier's buddies. 17 hours ago, WallysWorld said: I thought that if you split squads all the time, some cohesion is lost when you recombine them? I thought that was the case, but I'm not sure. Other way around some cohesion is lost by splitting. I believe this is stronger for some nationalities than others to discourage is from gamey activities using formations that would not have operated on their own. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
womble Posted May 7, 2016 Share Posted May 7, 2016 On 5/5/2016 at 10:39 PM, WallysWorld said: I don't know about the whole squad being rattled at once because a few basically cracked. I'm playing a CMFI PBEM where one Italian squad basically broke under pressure, but I had one single soldier keep firing and firing while the rest of the squad cowered. Poor brave guy was eventually shot down. I thought that if you split squads all the time, some cohesion is lost when you recombine them? I thought that was the case, but I'm not sure. This too. This illustrates that trooper status is modelled individually. Most of the time the individuals will remain generally close to the average that the UI is restricted by practicality (some would say sanity) to showing us. There are individual exceptions (even in squad initial make up: a Regular squad might have a Veteran or two in it, and/or a greenhorn or two, but the average won't be different enough to "Regular" to warrant displaying "Regular.1", in part, at least, because this level of information is inconsistent with the paradigm of game that BFC are making) from both random variation and differing applied stimuli: you certainly can't rely on every Normal motivation squad having one High motivation member. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Combatintman Posted May 7, 2016 Share Posted May 7, 2016 On 5/05/2016 at 7:06 AM, Pak40 said: <snip> but in real life a squad is always whole, even if one team is assaulting and the other supporting. For example, In real life if B team of a "split squad" saw it's A team get butchered by a machine gun in seconds then I think they would be quite upset no matter if they were "split" or "unsplit". This .... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bulletpoint Posted May 7, 2016 Share Posted May 7, 2016 So actually the real problem is not that the other teams get rattled when the assaulting team takes fire, but rather that it doesn't happen after you split the squad by the admin commands? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anthony P. Posted May 7, 2016 Share Posted May 7, 2016 My experience (no trials conducted) is that split teams can be morally affected by seeing other teams from their own squad get butchered. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bulletpoint Posted May 7, 2016 Share Posted May 7, 2016 (edited) 11 minutes ago, Anthony P. said: My experience (no trials conducted) is that split teams can be morally affected by seeing other teams from their own squad get butchered. I think you might be confusing it with the morale hit that happens within a formation when it takes enough casualties. If you have two platoons, and one squad of platoon A gets wiped out, all members of that platoon will get a morale hit, even though they didn't see their friends get hit. But the other platoon will not be affected. This is why, at the end of many scenarios, you can review the battlefield and find many enemy squads that at broken, without ever seeing combat. Edited May 7, 2016 by Bulletpoint 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
womble Posted May 7, 2016 Share Posted May 7, 2016 Split teams suffer more morale degradation from casualties taken by other teams of their squad than teams from other squads. They appear to suffer less than the same teams in an unsplit squad, but the "morale damage" to the team that actually takes the casualties is greater, so it seems fairly certain that once again the "display of the average" is affecting our perceptions: an unsplit squad's average morale after one casualty will look lower than the morale of a team which is split from another team of the squad that has taken casualties. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anthony P. Posted May 7, 2016 Share Posted May 7, 2016 Bulletpoint: Very possible. As I said, I based it on purely anecdotal evidence. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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