More new player queries

[More Chicken]

Very impressed with the speed of responses to my earlier queries on waypoints.  Without wishing to try anyone's patience, I should be grateful for a bit of help on the following issues please.

 

1) I am confused about the 'immediate action' buttons and how they work in turned based play (which I read somewhere they do). If I have given movement orders to, say, a tank and then hit the button to replay the minute's action, I assumed I was committed to that move.  Is that correct, or do the interrupt and evade buttons give me the ability to plot new orders while the turn is still being played out? For example, if my tank moves out of cover and spots another tank, can I interrupt and order it to, say, reverse or dash for cover, or am I stuck with my order until then end of the turn? If I am stuck with it, what use are the immediate action buttons in turn based play?

 

2) Camera angles.  Grrrrrrr.  I thought I had cracked this but now seem to have developed an annoying tendency to lose the plot and so am currently playing mainly from an overhead view. It works but sacrfices some of the atmosphere.  I realise there are 9 pre-set camera angles but often find them focusing on empty terrain with no sign of a unit. I also know I can lock units to certain camera positions, although as far as I can tell this needs to be done again if you reload a saved game. What I would really like to be able to do would be to lock to a camera view behind and a little above an infantry section, so that if I press control-1 (or is it alt-1?) I will always get that view of the section wherever it moves. I assume that is how it is supposed to work but simply getting the view I want on one unit is hard enough without having to repeat it when I load a saved game. Am I missing something here to get the view I want?

 

Thanks again guys.

 

Chicken 

[Bud Backer]

Hello MC,

1) I cannot see how the Instant Command buttons could have any role in turn based play. Both you and your opponent (were there a human opponent) MUST see exactly the same events in a given replay. If you could influence events, it would of course not be fair to the other player. In WEGO (turn based) battles, I think the buttons will therefore only work when it's the orders phase, but I can't see any reason why one would use them as you would likely have more specific ideas as to what you want a unit to do than what the AI might choose for you. I have never used them for this reason.

2) It is normal that unit lock will be lost if you leave the battle and reload it. From what you describe it *seems* as if you are not moving around the map but seem restricted to using the 9 presets for height/angle and to locking on specific units. You should be able to pan around the map by

-Moving the mouse to screen edges. Left moves left, upper left turns the camera counter clockwise, top of the screen moves forward, etc. if your mouse has a wheel you should be able to raise and lower the camera over the map to the height you prefer. Depending on keyboard, Up/down arrow may tilt the camera upward or downwards, but there are other key combinations to do that. Those keys are listed in the manual.

-using the WASD and QE keys. W = forward, S = backward, A = left, D = right. Q is rotate counter clockwise, E is rotate clockwise.

The mouse is better for quickly moving about, the keyboard gives you fine control.

Hope that helps!

Edited June 22, 2015 by Bud_B

[womble]

Very impressed with the speed of responses to my earlier queries on waypoints.  Without wishing to try anyone's patience, I should be grateful for a bit of help on the following issues please.

 

1) I am confused about the 'immediate action' buttons and how they work in turned based play (which I read somewhere they do). If I have given movement orders to, say, a tank and then hit the button to replay the minute's action, I assumed I was committed to that move.  Is that correct, or do the interrupt and evade buttons give me the ability to plot new orders while the turn is still being played out? For example, if my tank moves out of cover and spots another tank, can I interrupt and order it to, say, reverse or dash for cover, or am I stuck with my order until then end of the turn? If I am stuck with it, what use are the immediate action buttons in turn based play?

The "immediate order" buttons are immediate, in that they take effect at the first moment of game running after you've given them. Since you can, in turn-based play, only give orders at the "top of the minute", the immediate orders will be acted on in "second one" of the turn when you hit the BRB. You are, indeed, committed as soon as you press that big red button... In turn-based play, two of the orders are almost better thought of as "interface shortcuts" than as "orders". Those two are the "Pause " and "Halt" orders. Pause gets the same effect as hitting the "Pause" command many times til the Pause applied becomes "indefinite" (i.e. has not associated duration). Halt just clears all a unit's movement orders, the same as if you hit "Backspace" lots.

 

Evade is different. It uses "TacAI thinking" to generate a waypoint that's intended to get the affected element "towards safety". Not that useful on the face of it, but it does have the added feature of greater emphasis, which means that troops which might otherwise have disregarded your orders (mostly "Pinned" troops) will actually get their arses moving. Combined with the ability to drag that waypoint around and change the movement mode the troops are going to use to get to it, it actually becomes quite useful for getting troops out of sticky situations.

 

There are a couple of other "instant" commands that take place as soon as you press the button, irreversibly, in WeGo mode: Dismount and Bail. If you press either of these during the orders phase, the first thing that will happen is the passengers/crew will get out of their vehicle. Since you can't give them an order to get back into a vehicle in the same turn (especially one they haven't gotten out of yet), they'll be afoot for the entire minute.

 

 

 

2) Camera angles.  Grrrrrrr.  I thought I had cracked this but now seem to have developed an annoying tendency to lose the plot and so am currently playing mainly from an overhead view. It works but sacrfices some of the atmosphere.  I realise there are 9 pre-set camera angles but often find them focusing on empty terrain with no sign of a unit. I also know I can lock units to certain camera positions, although as far as I can tell this needs to be done again if you reload a saved game. What I would really like to be able to do would be to lock to a camera view behind and a little above an infantry section, so that if I press control-1 (or is it alt-1?) I will always get that view of the section wherever it moves. I assume that is how it is supposed to work but simply getting the view I want on one unit is hard enough without having to repeat it when I load a saved game. Am I missing something here to get the view I want?

 

Try using "Tab" to go to the unit you have selected. Then the mouse scrollwheel to raise and lower your viewpoint.

[womble]

...I can't see any reason why one would use them as you would likely have more specific ideas as to what you want a unit to do than what the AI might choose for you. I have never used them for this reason.

To amplify a little on what I said to Ser Chicken, the three buttons are useful in the orders phase.

 

Halt is mostly just a shortcut for hitting Backspace a lot. How useful it will be will depend on your own style of play. I often give unengaged units in good defilade long, complicated orders that will take several minutes for them to complete. When the enemy rudely interferes with my planning, it's a lot easier to just hit "Halt" the once per selected (group of) unit(s) than to Backspace 20 or 30 times.

 

Pause, adding an indefinite pause to the unit is useful to stop them from proceeding with orders that you've already assinged, and which you know you will want them to execute shortly. Say you've got a convoy going on, and the lead vehicles get a bit snarled up, you probably want to give all the following units a Pause, but they're eventually going to want to carry on. You could just hit backspace to clear all the convoy's orders, but then you'd have to reinstate them, when the flaws that tangled up your lead elements could probably be solved by a few judicious short Pauses added to waypoints, or some dragging around of existing waypoints at turns etc, or some Slow legs to give things a chance to shake out.

 

Evade is the only one where the AI has any input, and that's, nowadays, 100% amenable to you changing it. What it offers over simply giving a movement order is the extra impetus, that gets your troops moving when they perhaps otherwise wouldn't, and gets them moving with less delay, too.

[A Canadian Cat]

1) I am confused about the 'immediate action' buttons

Again already good answers - slow down guys you keep beating me to it

 

I will simply add that when you have troops who are pinned (when you select them the word pinned appears on top of the suppression meter) using the evade instant command is much more likely got get them to move than just issuing a move order from the menu.

 

2) Camera angles.  Grrrrrrr.  I thought I had cracked this but now seem to have developed an annoying tendency to lose the plot and so am currently playing mainly from an overhead view. It works but sacrfices some of the atmosphere.  I realise there are 9 pre-set camera angles but often find them focusing on empty terrain with no sign of a unit. I also know I can lock units to certain camera positions, although as far as I can tell this needs to be done again if you reload a saved game. What I would really like to be able to do would be to lock to a camera view behind and a little above an infantry section, so that if I press control-1 (or is it alt-1?) I will always get that view of the section wherever it moves. I assume that is how it is supposed to work but simply getting the view I want on one unit is hard enough without having to repeat it when I load a saved game. Am I missing something here to get the view I want?

You are correct any unit lock you had in a previous turn load is lost.  The camera view presets just move the viewing height and angle to a preset location.  The difference between 2 and 4 is like suddenly climbing to the top of a tall tower - if you keep looking forward you will no longer see the ground at your feet.  If your camera is locked on a unit then you adjust the height then the camera location also moved back or forward enough to keep the unit in view.  Also you made reference to <ctrl># and <alt># those are for saving and restoring a camera view locked to a selected unit.  I wish they were useful in WEGO but they are not saved between saves so it makes them nearly useless.  I wish that were saved between turns in PBEM and with saves for regular play.  That should be number four on my top three most requested features.

 

I personally watch turns once on camera level 3 or 4 (depending on battle size) and then re-watch things with the camera on level 1 or 2 and often locked on particular units.

[MikeyD]

Don't write-off realtime play entirely. Once the various commands evolve into autonomic motor reflexes realtime play becomes much simpler to negotiate - and those immediate action buttons will then have a utility. I've often joked (perhaps too often) that learning to play CM is like learning to parallel park. No, its not impossible, no there's nothing mechanically wrong. A little practice and it all turns into second nature.

[More Chicken]

Thanks to all who have taken the time to reply to my beginner's questions.  Some very useful information there which will help me as I stumble around virtual Normandie!

 

More Chicken 

[Bud Backer]

Don't be afraid to ask questions. Also useful is the search feature in the forum too if you want to see if it's come up before.

[Pak40]

Also, don't forget these camera commands:

 

F & R - these quickly elevate or lower your altitude while tilting the camera

 

Shift + mousewheel is similar but in incremental steps

 

Crtl + mousewheel pivot camera up and down

[Mord]

I can't really add anything to this discussion other than that I just wanted to tell you, More Chicken, that I have been a massive fan of yours for ages! For the last 35 years I have screamed your name in restaurants and at dinner tables around this great nation....it's a pleasure to finally meet you.

 

Welcome to CM crackdom.

 

Mord.

[sburke]

I can't really add anything to this discussion other than that I just wanted to tell you, More Chicken, that I have been a massive fan of yours for ages! For the last 35 years I have screamed your name in restaurants and at dinner tables around this great nation....it's a pleasure to finally meet you.

 

Welcome to CM crackdom.

 

Mord.

Cows around the world love him.

[More Chicken]

Thanks guys. Being so popular can be tough sometimes, but I just hang in there. 

[c3k]

When you can no longer hang in there and you're gone, we're all going to agree that you were a good egg.

 

 

[Mord]

Who came first, More Chicken? Or More Eggs?

 

 

Mord.

[Baneman]

Who came first, More Chicken? Or More Eggs?

 

 

Mord.

 

More Eggs is the response to More Chicken.

 

Thought you guys would know that, eggad !

[More Chicken]

Actually Some Chicken came first.  But as I discovered on another forum when Free Range Egg and I posted on the same thread, he had been a member longer than me, proving conclusively that the egg came first.

[Bulletpoint]

Actually the rooster came first, which as a consequence led to the eggs. And the end of his happy carefree rooster life.

 

Ba-dum tish.

 

On topic, have you tried to simply move the camera about with the WASD-keys and using the right mouse button for turning the camera? Together with the mouse wheel for raising/lowering the camera, I find that's all the control I need.

[More Chicken]

I have now thanks, and found it a lot easier to control, particularly when the camera is zoomed in and the mouse seems very sensitive.  Positioning it behind and just above a unit though is still a bit laborious, but I think Im getting the hang of it.  And rotating the camera with Q and E rather than using the mouse also seems to help, but I'm not sure I understand fully how the pre-set angles work, as often they give what looks like a face down in the grass view from a range of 6 inches!

[c3k]

Double-click the mouse and the camera goes to that location. It's an easy fast-forward.

 

Also, in the Options Menu, there are a total of 3 (?) different selections for how you control the camera. Give 'em a shot. You'll find one that works for you.

[womble]

I have now thanks, and found it a lot easier to control, particularly when the camera is zoomed in and the mouse seems very sensitive.  Positioning it behind and just above a unit though is still a bit laborious, but I think Im getting the hang of it.  And rotating the camera with Q and E rather than using the mouse also seems to help, but I'm not sure I understand fully how the pre-set angles work, as often they give what looks like a face down in the grass view from a range of 6 inches!

Tab while a unit is selected. Set the view height to 2 or 3 with the keyboard or mousewheel.  Preset views on 1-5ish never ought to put you "face down"... Higher views are pretty much "plan", so looking straight down.