SgtGold Posted March 14, 2015 Share Posted March 14, 2015 I'm currently playing 'Galloping horse downfall' and I can't get the US forces to fire their Javelin missiles against soft targets. I've tried area as well as direct enemy targeting. Any idea on what the issue could be? AFAIK US infantry should be able to use the Javelin against soft targets. Thanks. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sburke Posted March 14, 2015 Share Posted March 14, 2015 Soft targets like a Tigr? Or even softer? I have had a unit fire a Jav on a Tigr on their own. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
agusto Posted March 14, 2015 Share Posted March 14, 2015 (edited) The probability of ATGM teams using their missiles against soft targets has been significantly reduced compared to Shock Force IIRC. But theoretically it should be possible in Black Sea too. Edit: @sburke: I think i have also seen them fire it at enemy ATGM and teams and other weapon crews. Edited March 14, 2015 by agusto 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vanir Ausf B Posted March 14, 2015 Share Posted March 14, 2015 The TacAI will occasionally use Javelins against soft targets in extremis, but the player cannot order it. It is deliberate, not a bug. A request has been made to change it to where the player can order it but it hasn't happened so far. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Emrys Posted March 14, 2015 Share Posted March 14, 2015 I was very happy that one of my Javelin teams did not waste a missile on a Tigr as I had other plans for that vehicle. It all worked out very nicely. Michael 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kieme(ITA) Posted March 14, 2015 Share Posted March 14, 2015 What vehicle/unit you call soft target? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CPC922 Posted March 14, 2015 Share Posted March 14, 2015 I had a javelin team fire one off against a pesky machine gunner in a building. Excellent use as it knocked out the machine gunner that was pinning down my squads. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vet 0369 Posted March 14, 2015 Share Posted March 14, 2015 (edited) I had a javelin team fire one off against a pesky machine gunner in a building. Excellent use as it knocked out the machine gunner that was pinning down my squads. Yup, I used a javelin team to target a Russian MANPAD, in the open, in "Poking the Bear." Even though the MANPAD was within small arms range of the javelin team, the AI used a javelin to take out the MANPAD. that really surprised me. You just can't just tell the team to use the javelin. Edited March 14, 2015 by Vet 0369 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChrisND Posted March 14, 2015 Share Posted March 14, 2015 When Black Sea development first started, the troops were too loose with their Javelins. We're talking readily dumping their Javs at enemy infantry and not leaving any for enemy armor that might be over the next hill. Using the target order was even worse, you couldn't even use it for your infantry on infantry targets at all, if you were expecting enemy armor of any kind. It was not good and far worse overall than the current behavior. So their willingness to use them on non-AFV targets was tightened to what you see today. In the absence of a more granular control scheme, this is basically picking the lesser of two evils - I'd rather have Javs available for tanks than waste them on a rifle team that I can deal with through other means. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akd Posted March 14, 2015 Share Posted March 14, 2015 Using the target order was even worse, you couldn't even use it for your infantry on infantry targets at all, if you were expecting enemy armor of any kind. Split off AT team. Problem solved. Far more flexible than current total prohibition. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Apocal Posted March 14, 2015 Share Posted March 14, 2015 Split off AT team. Problem solved. Far more flexible than current total prohibition. They'd still occasionally fire Javelins of their own initiative if they spotted something. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sburke Posted March 15, 2015 Share Posted March 15, 2015 Split off AT team. Problem solved. Far more flexible than current total prohibition. But it won't work for the AI. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A Canadian Cat Posted March 15, 2015 Share Posted March 15, 2015 I personally don't want to see a charge here. Javelins are for tanks and IFVs. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akd Posted March 15, 2015 Share Posted March 15, 2015 But it won't work for the AI. AI player doesn't fire on area targets, it either uses mission designer orders (i.e. target armor arc) or TacAI targeting. There is no problem with the TacAI not using AT weapons on soft targets (unless stressed), which was the big problem recognized initially. The problem now is when a player makes a judgement that a threat is Javelin worthy and cannot explicitly order the team to fire on it, because the game has to protect us from ourselves. (Sure that ATGM is probably going to kill one of your Strykers, but no, you aren't allowed to fire a Javelin on it. There might be a tank just around the corner, and you can't be trusted to make that call.) The change to TacAI targeting was good. The total prohibition for player-placed targets is bad because it is not necessary. It's a solution looking for a problem. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sburke Posted March 15, 2015 Share Posted March 15, 2015 AI player doesn't fire on area targets, it either uses mission designer orders (i.e. target armor arc) or TacAI targeting. There is no problem with the TacAI not using AT weapons on soft targets (unless stressed), which was the big problem recognized initially. The problem now is when a player makes a judgement that a threat is Javelin worthy and cannot explicitly order the team to fire on it, because the game has to protect us from ourselves. (Sure that ATGM is probably going to kill one of your Strykers, but no, you aren't allowed to fire a Javelin on it. There might be a tank just around the corner, and you can't be trusted to make that call.) The change to TacAI targeting was good. The total prohibition for player-placed targets is bad because it is not necessary. It's a solution looking for a problem. Good point. I retract my response. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Melchior Posted March 15, 2015 Share Posted March 15, 2015 I found Javs useful for plinking the errant machine gun/sniper team in CMSF. Though I agree they were usually overzealous about attacking non-armor targets. Kornet and Spigot crews tended to be pretty trigger happy too. I'd still like it if "Target" told the team to shoot at a target regardless of soft/heavy status. A guided, rocket propelled bomb is pretty useful for a lot of situations even if not ideal. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SgtGold Posted March 15, 2015 Author Share Posted March 15, 2015 Ok, so to confuse things I built a quick battle with TOW and Javelin ATGW's and fired them at soft (infantry) targets. What gives? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Apocal Posted March 15, 2015 Share Posted March 15, 2015 Ok, so to confuse things I built a quick battle with TOW and Javelin ATGW's and fired them at soft (infantry) targets. What gives? They are more reluctant to do it (compared to CMSF), but they'll still sometimes let one fly. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarcM Posted March 16, 2015 Share Posted March 16, 2015 Just wanted to contribute in the conversation by saying that one of my AT teams engaged an RPG team in the Second mission in the US campaign. No body was more surprised than me . 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vet 0369 Posted March 16, 2015 Share Posted March 16, 2015 What's worse is when you order the Javelin team to fire at a T90, and it shoots at a BMP-3 instead. In this mission, I have four Javelins to take out five or six T90's. Red force has a bucket load of BMP-3s too, but I'd rather take the chance on using an AT4 on a BMP where at least I have a chance of killing it and save the Javelins for the tanks. No matter what I tried, the Javelin team refused to fire on the tank I targeted and shot it's last Javelin at the BMP. I'd think the AI would have the same order of fire as real life. If the Javelin team sees a T90 and a BMP-3, It should take out the T90 even if the BMP is closer. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Melchior Posted March 16, 2015 Share Posted March 16, 2015 That's another case of "well what I would've done is...". Your pixeltruppen may not agree and that's the nature of the level you play at vs. the ones your troops play at. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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